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Why do people litter ?

Why do people ?

A group of my housemates were having this debate . . .

Why do people litter ? Why do they not simply take their litter home ?

Is it because they don't know any better ? - I don't believe so, perhaps a child under the age of reason, but certainly not an adult

Is it because their parents didn't bring them up right ? - I don't believe so, perhaps they might have been allowed to as children, by adults who didn't care, but I think when they are older and can decide for themselves it's possible to stop ? No ? Lots of people who come from what could be termed troubled areas, or had a bad upbringing don't engage in anti-social behavior, so I don't think it can be used as an excuse.

Do they do it in some mistake belief they are getting at the authorities/government/system ? - If they do, do these public administrators and politicians really care if people mess up their own area and waste their own local taxes ? I doubt if they really do deep down.

Do they do it just for badness ? - Some sort of anti-social kick ?

Litter Bins don't work - They are just filled up dishonestly with household black waste bags instead of litter, cost a fortune to empty and maintain, and are vandal magnets. I rarely see 'litter bins' abroad in more civilized countries, just clean streets, where people just don't drop litter and they take their litter home.

E.g. in Austria and Switzerland, you could literally eat your dinner off the streets in comparison to Ireland, and very little street cleaning is required.

Yes some other countries do have litter problems, and even the litter free countries have their exceptions, but why is that seen an acceptable excuse to for littering and its toleration in Irish society ?

Surely Ireland can match, or at least try to match, the best civilizations at this stage, or are the Irish a lost cause when it comes to soiling their own areas ?

Personally I can't fathom it at all . . . . .

Luckily I don't care anymore if Irish people destroy their own environment. I've gone completely past caring what Irish society does to itself at this stage,

. . . . but I'm just trying to understand the mentality here ?

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yore

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Same reason people piss in public - there aren't nearly enough public toilets and it's massively inconvenient to carry your piss around with you all day if you're not heading home or indoors shortly.

Substitute piss for rubbish and toilets for bins and the same applies.

Me bollix

Have a look at any busy area near a bin. Bus stops in the city centre are a good example. You will see arseholes dropping litter and cigarette butts literally within spitting distance of an empty bin

Artful_Badger

seamus wrote: »

I'd disagree on the basic principle that carrying rubbish isn't inconvenient in the slightest and doesn't hurt, like pee does.

Plus there are actually plenty of bins about, especially in places where one might purchase or consume food. If you go to a local park to have a picnic, you somehow got the food there, so you can carry your rubbish back the same way.

It's scumbaggery, pure and simple.

Peeing in public I don't really have an issue with provided that they at least make an attempt to do it discreetly. I've taken many leak in the bushes myself.

And pissing in public as long as nobody sees you is fine ? People choose to drink, they choose to be in that position and being drunk or bursting is no excuse. Its the same as littering and the exact attitude that causes it and you can justify it for yourself just as they can. As long as nobody sees you you've done nothing wrong.

seamus

Artful_Badger wrote: »

And pissing in public as long as nobody sees you is fine ? People choose to drink, they choose to be in that position and being drunk or bursting is no excuse. Its the same as littering and the exact attitude that causes it and you can justify it for yourself just as they can. As long as nobody sees you you've done nothing wrong.

Well bursting is an excuse, you can do serious harm to yourself if you don't let it out. You can't hurt yourself by holding onto your rubbish.

Peeing out of the way effectively does harm nobody. It's not about nobody seeing you do it, it's about doing it in a way that doesn't inconvenience anyone. It doesn't require anyone to clean it up and provided that you're not peeing in the middle of the path or the street, no-one is inconvenienced by it.

For all intents and purposes, peeing in public is no worse than pouring a bottle of water into the bushes.

That's a totally different thing to throwing paper everywhere which will stay there for a long time and will be inconvenient for a lot of people, either visually in general, or for the homeowners, shopowners and public servants who have to pick it up.

af_thefragile

KilOit wrote: »

I throw banana skins and apple cores into bushes and srubs, is this deemed littering?

If you throw a food item in the bush somewhere chances are some critter will eat it but if you start piling up food waste in the corner of a street then it'll only end up decomposing and make an awful mess.

I'ld like it if there were 3 different bins everywhere. One for non-degradable plastics, one for recyclables and one for biodegradable and food wastes. That way all the trash can be separated at the source and managed a lot more efficiently. But then it'll also require a heightened sense of responsibility from the people for it to work everywhere... Almost all trash can be recycled or be made into something useful, it just requires an incentive...

kylith

seamus wrote: »

Peeing in public I don't really have an issue with provided that they at least make an attempt to do it discreetly. I've taken many leak in the bushes myself.

I have an issue with it. I have an issue with stepping over pools of human urine running down footpaths. It's completely disgusting and I have no respect for anyone who would do it except in cases of direst emergency where there are no restaurants or pubs nearby. They may have a 'for customer's use only' sign, but it's amazing how quick they change their tune when you tell them that it's that or the floor.

ger vallely

Myself and my sister sat by the window in a fast fooderie in Finglas one afternoon. We saw what looked like a mother and daughter pull up at the drive through,get their food,sit in the car and eat it. They threw out the packaging,milkshake containers and leftover food and drove over it. They actually had to pass the bin which was positioned to be used from a car.I just don't understand. I reckon these people just don't think. They have absolutely no thought about their actions at all. It was probably more bother throwing it out bit by bit rather than keeping it all in one bag and dumping it into the bin. I certainly wasn't about to tackle them over it and I don't think ringing the litter warden(if there is one around Finglas) would have had any result. So,upshot is,I think it's a habit at this stage ,not a plan or formed idea,just what they do.

Ash.J.Williams

Artful_Badger wrote: »

And pissing in public as long as nobody sees you is fine ? People choose to drink, they choose to be in that position and being drunk or bursting is no excuse. Its the same as littering and the exact attitude that causes it and you can justify it for yourself just as they can. As long as nobody sees you you've done nothing wrong.

what about people who don't drink? I was refused admission to burger kings toilet the other night due to not being a customer, and had to offload before i burst!

Ash.J.Williams

ger vallely wrote: »

Myself and my sister sat by the window in a fast fooderie in Finglas one afternoon. We saw what looked like a mother and daughter pull up at the drive through,get their food,sit in the car and eat it. They threw out the packaging,milkshake containers and leftover food and drove over it. They actually had to pass the bin which was positioned to be used from a car.I just don't understand. I reckon these people just don't think. They have absolutely no thought about their actions at all. It was probably more bother throwing it out bit by bit rather than keeping it all in one bag and dumping it into the bin. I certainly wasn't about to tackle them over it and I don't think ringing the litter warden(if there is one around Finglas) would have had any result. So,upshot is,I think it's a habit at this stage ,not a plan or formed idea,just what they do.

ger i saw that exact type of incident in several locations several times! UP to the drive in....down their fat gobs....then out the window and drive off!

Why do people ?

I can understand why some drunk people piss in public, I can understand violence in public, I can understand all sorts of anti social behavior as it's self interest, I can even understand kids carrying out vandalism and spray painting as a means of attention seeking. I can understand the feeble and weak pathetic mentality of them all.

But I still cannot understand fully grown adults littering , its not even self interest or attention seeking to litter your own surroundings and waste your own communities local taxes and time collecting it up and maintaining/repairing litter bins. Bizarre.

af_thefragile

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

what about people who don't drink? I was refused admission to burger kings toilet the other night due to not being a customer, and had to offload before i burst!

I was once caught up in traffic a couple of years ago when it snowed heavy. After sitting in the car for over an hour i desperately had to go. Thankfully I had a bottle in my car so I ended up having to pee in a bottle and leave the bottle by the side of the road and carry on... Something told me leaving a bottle a pee by the side of the road was better than letting go on someone's doorstep...

Artful_Badger

seamus wrote: »

Well bursting is an excuse, you can do serious harm to yourself if you don't let it out. You can't hurt yourself by holding onto your rubbish.

Only if you hold it for quite a long time. Eating like a pig and holding in a dump doesnt negate any responsibility of taking a crap in public. Its a persons choice to drink so much and be in a position where they know they will likely need to take a leak in an area they most likely know there is no toilet.

Peeing out of the way effectively does harm nobody. It's not about nobody seeing you do it, it's about doing it in a way that doesn't inconvenience anyone. It doesn't require anyone to clean it up and provided that you're not peeing in the middle of the path or the street, no-one is inconvenienced by it.

Its illegal and its illegal because not everyone will or can find a discreet bush to piss into. Lots of people will piss in alleys and in shop doorways or places where it will impact on others. Because once you justify the act itself and in doing so ignore the law related to it everything else boils down to personal choice. You ignore the law and piss in a bush because you think that's fine. Someone else ignores the law and pisses in a shop doorway because they think that's fine. There is no difference in the acts, you are doing whatever the hell you want to do regardless of what laws and restrictions are in place for that public area.

For all intents and purposes, peeing in public is no worse than pouring a bottle of water into the bushes.

And for all intents and purposes taking a shít on someone lawn is no different than their dog taking a shít on the lawn. It doesnt matter what you think of it or how you want to justify it, its wrong to do because there are certain standards for people to adhere to in society and you cant just ignore them and the laws in place to deal with them because you see nothing wrong with it.

That's a totally different thing to throwing paper everywhere which will stay there for a long time and will be inconvenient for a lot of people, either visually in general, or for the homeowners, shopowners and public servants who have to pick it up.

Its not, its you doing whatever you want because you see no harm in it. The people who littler likely couldnt give a crap about who picks up the litter so whats it matter to them once there is no restrictions to adhere to ?. As I said once you cross the line of being able to ignore the standard expected of people in society you can justify anything you want.

Artful_Badger

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

what about people who don't drink? I was refused admission to burger kings toilet the other night due to not being a customer, and had to offload before i burst!

Burger Kings is the only place wherever you are with a toilet is it ? Every town and city in Ireland is peppered with pubs. Every pub has a toilet and I have never ever heard of anyone being refused use of a toilet in a pub.

Edit: If you mean after closing time then how were you bursting for a piss without drinking anything ?

Artful_Badger

Why do people ? wrote: »

But what's convenient about it if spoils you're own area and wastes your local taxes that could be spent on something more productive ?

They must have worked that out, so why continue ?

These would be people who wouldnt have a great deal of pride in how nice their area looked or where tax money goes I'd imagine. I think you are giving these people too much credit tbh. They drop rubbish because they dont want to hold it, thats probably as far as the thought process goes in relation to it.

seamus

kylith wrote: »

I have an issue with it. I have an issue with stepping over pools of human urine running down footpaths.

Well that wouldn't exactly be peeing discreetly then

Artful_Badger wrote: »

And for all intents and purposes taking a shít on someone lawn is no different than their dog taking a shít on the lawn. It doesnt matter what you think of it or how you want to justify it, its wrong to do because there are certain standards for people to adhere to in society and you cant just ignore them and the laws in place to deal with them because you see nothing wrong with it.

And both are illegal because faeces is not urine and it doesn't disappear into the ground.

The basic standard of conduct one would expect in public is to conduct yourself and you affairs in a manner which doesn't inconvenience others. Which is basically what I'm saying.

You also seem to be missing some simple aspects of biology if you believe that somebody only needs to pee if they've drank something. The majority of water comes from food, and in such cases the urine takes hours to collect in the bladder. Do you expect people to stay within walking distance of a toilet at all times?

Artful_Badger

seamus wrote: »

Well that wouldn't exactly be peeing discreetly then

And both are illegal because faeces is not urine and it doesn't disappear into the ground.

The basic standard of conduct one would expect in public is to conduct yourself and you affairs in a manner which doesn't inconvenience others. Which is basically what I'm saying.

You also seem to be missing some simple aspects of biology if you believe that somebody only needs to pee if they've drank something. The majority of water comes from food, and in such cases the urine takes hours to collect in the bladder. Do you expect people to stay within walking distance of a toilet at all times?

But you're making up your own rules about what way you should behave in society. You cant do that while stating others are doing wrong. Others view of how to conduct themselves could differ from yours but they would be just as entitled to do so as you.

Being in Burger King in the small hours bursting for a piss is likely to be the result of having been out drinking, whether it be beer or shandies or whatever the hell.

As I said there are pubs everywhere in this country and open quite late, the chances of being bursting for a piss to the point of possible internal damage due to normal build up and it only becoming apparent in the couple hours after closing time and before you got home would be quite rare.

You seem like an intelligent fellow and quite often have reasonable arguments but I think you're stretching a long way into the fantastical here to try and justify you being able to do whatever you want regardless of the laws and standards of society to avoid personal responsibility for putting yourself in that position in the first place.

hatrickpatrick

af_thefragile wrote: »

Lots of rubbish bins in Ireland or at least in Dublin though.
It was a right pain in London where you had to carry all your rubbish in your pockets as there were no bins for miles...

Peeing in Ireland is a different matter though. There are almost no public toilets in the country!

Try brnging your dog for a walk up Killiney hill and doing your duty by picking up her sh!te in a cardboard pooper scooper.
You now have the option of fecking the scooper over the cliff or carrying the sh!te around with you for the entire walk as there is literally not a single place up there to get rid of them. Not one, once you leave the car park.

Under those circumstances, it should come as no surprise that there are young lads who actually turn the fecking of sh!te off the cliff into a game, see who can get it the furthest etc. :pac:

Ash.J.Williams

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Burger Kings is the only place wherever you are with a toilet is it ? Every town and city in Ireland is peppered with pubs. Every pub has a toilet and I have never ever heard of anyone being refused use of a toilet in a pub.

Edit: If you mean after closing time then how were you bursting for a piss without drinking anything ?

are that stupid or is your last sentence a fraping incident?

hatrickpatrick

yore wrote: »

Me bollix

Have a look at any busy area near a bin. Bus stops in the city centre are a good example. You will see arseholes dropping litter and cigarette butts literally within spitting distance of an empty bin

An "empty" bin is an extreme rarity in Dun Laoghaire, I don't remember the last time I saw one which wasn't overflowing...

Artful_Badger

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

are that stupid or is your last sentence a fraping incident?

I'll take a stab at deciphering that lol. Or in your language: read good me know u say.

Well you see when I need to piss I'm aware of it before it gets to the point of being "bursting" unless I'm drinking several pints an hour. Would you have me believe that you were not drinking anything, and were unaware you needed to piss until you ended up in Burger Kings "bursting" where you were refused use of the toilets and there being no other toilets available in the surrounding area you had no alternative but to piss in public ?

seamus

Artful_Badger wrote: »

But you're making up your own rules about what way you should behave in society. You cant do that while stating others are doing wrong.

Of course you can

Isn't that the very essence of morality - that it's subjective?

Unless you believe that everything which is illegal is wrong and something is not wrong if it's not illegal?

I can of course say that littering is scumbaggery and urinating out of the way where it will be of no inconvenience to others, is not. Because they're two entirely separate things with different natures and different consequences.

If I said that dropping cornetto wrappers was wrong, but throwing cigarette butts was not, you'd have a point.

Here's a question - do you believe it's wrong to pour a bottle of water into a bush?

Artful_Badger

seamus wrote: »

Of course you can
Isn't that the very essence of morality - that it's subjective?

Unless you believe that everything which is illegal is wrong and something is not wrong if it's not illegal?

I can of course say that littering is scumbaggery and urinating out of the way where it will be of no inconvenience to others, is not. Because they're two entirely separate things with different natures and different consequences.

If I said that dropping cornetto wrappers was wrong, but throwing cigarette butts was not, you'd have a point.

Here's a question - do you believe it's wrong to pour a bottle of water into a bush?

The issue here isnt just morality though its the unacceptable nature of littering and how people justify it. My point was that its easy to justify anything once you can ignore the laws in relation to it because you cannot hold anyone to the same sense of right and wrong. Ignoring public urination laws isnt done by people who just piss in bushes, its done by everyone who wants to piss in public and once you ignore the law it can be easily justified based on your own personal viewpoint. Whether it be lack of toilets, no harm done, do it discreetly etc.

They are not two entirely different things, its the same thing in relation to the problem in society of public urination. People make the choice to be in that position and then think nothing of pissing in public. Littering is the same, people make the decision to litter. Once you ignore the law you can justify it to yourself easy enough. Is it wrong to inconvenience someone ? Maybe they dont think so, maybe they think it wont be left there, it wont harm the environment, someone is paid to clean that area anyway. Maybe its just an eyesore ? Maybe those who do it discretely are doing it right ? Throw the rubbish behind the bush so nobody sees it until someone comes along to clean up ?

That question has nothing to do with what we are talking about, water in a bush is fine as an act, as is throwing shít in there, plants love shít. The problem is the act of breaking laws to do something that can easily be avoided by being a bit more responsible and then wondering why others do the same in accordance with their own world view which so often is "Fcuk everyone else". The law is there to enforce a standard, you can ignore that standard and do as your please if you like. But to then wonder why or shake your head at the fact that not everyone shares your morals and why there is no standard in how they conduct themselves is baffling.

dan dan

In my village the tidy towns police, effectively stopped littering by constant constant nagging and surveillance. The upshot was the guy who daily cleaned and swept the streets with his wheeled bins,was removed by the council. We now have a weekly visit by a hit and miss sweeper truck. Job gone,litter back,tidy town fervour waned.

looking_around

Why do people ? wrote: »

A group of my housemates were having this debate . . .

Why do people litter ? Why do they not simply take their litter home ?

Is it because they don't know any better ? - I don't believe so, perhaps a child under the age of reason, but certainly not an adult

At 2 and half years. I used to pick up litter that I'd seen adults drop and hand it back to them, saying "bin".

Young kids can learn too.
I learned very early on where rubbish went.
__
Mostly I think it's due to a lack of respect for the area. A lack of caring and people going "ah it'll blow away/they'll clean it next week".

I've seen litter surrounding empty bins cause people were too lazy to actually drop it through the hole. On the spot fines would be great!

james142

Maybe also cause the council are removing **** loads of the bins.. There used to be only one bin in our area (balllinteer) but they seemed to have removed even that one bin. Now you have an option to either dump it on the ground, or walk 10 mins down the path to the next bin.. Disgrace

Artful_Badger

james142 wrote: »

Maybe also cause the council are removing **** loads of the bins.. There used to be only one bin in our area (balllinteer) but they seemed to have removed even that one bin. Now you have an option to either dump it on the ground, or walk 10 mins down the path to the next bin.. Disgrace

Its a disgrace to have to hold onto your own fcukin rubbish for 10 minutes ?

EazyD

Anyone who knowingly dumps their rubbish is a big dirty pig. Since the sun came out, hoards of teenagers have been using the green area on front of my house every day/night. Every morning, the remnants of takeaway bags and plastic bottles litter the green area, there is a public bin 20-30 metres from this area, but they could not be bothered. My dog has better etiquette than oxygen thieves like this.

Dostoevsky

I despise littering. I don't know if it's much use but I immediately report it when I see it (usually by morons in the car in front throwing things out their window)

The number to report littering in Dublin is (DCC):

01 2225833

Save it to your phone if you're in this area. Use it. If everybody reported littering we'd make Ireland a much cleaner place.

jugger0

Why? Because they are lazy scumbags, on the spot executions for litterers, lets clean up the streets and the gene pool.

n0brain3r

No respect for anything generally. But get this I was out for a walk yesterday and I met the litter warden going through some bags dumped by the canal. I said to myself great I hope he gets them. On my return however there was no sign of him and the bags where torn open and all papers lined up as he was going through them to add insult he threw his disposable gloves on the ground beside the bags. I mean WTF

ScumLord

DublinArnie wrote: »

They're lazy and can't be bothered walking another few minutes to a bin or what not.

A pet peeve of mine at the moment is the lack of public bins, I'm not even talking about Ireland. I found this to be a problem in every country and city I visited. You have to seek out shops that may put bins out and after closing hours there's next to nothing available.

I feel the same way about pissing in the street, people need to piss and are going to piss when drunk. It doesn't matter what you say or do to try and stop them it's going to happen. Provide public toilets or stop crying about it.

I don't get majorly upset at litters, I don't know that putting a cornetto into a large toxic rubbish heap is any better than letting it rot naturally in isolation.

People don't like litter around them but at the end of the day I think all most people care about is getting it out of their sight, they don't care what happens after that so they're not much better than the guy that leaves it in the park.