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Child Item

Is It A Bad Time To Be Male?

[Deleted User]

Before I go on, it should be important to say that this is not intended to be a men v woman thread, as it's not the purpose, nor is it men's only, which is why I haven't posted this in the Gentleman's Club.

I spent this weekend at my girlfriend's house, during which time, her two year old niece came visiting. This child and I get on really well, as I do with children in general. We were playing and dancing and just having a good time, as you would with any young child. Once the child had gone, we had a discussion about this and I remarked about how bad it must have looked to anybody else - this is a child that is not mine, who I have met only a few times, and yet I am holding her hand, or she is running to give me a hug, or giving me high five.

This makes me sad, because I would think nothing of these things, yet you just know somebody would think it is indecent or that it is wrong. This discussion went on to other things and how there seems to be a lot of socially acceptable discrimination against men - it turns out that in some states across America, men are allowed to work in creches/daycare, but they are absolutely forbidden to change nappies, or assist the child in, say, going to the toilet or helping them get dressed. It seems to be the case in creches over here as similar stories have been mentioned previously. There are seemingly some libraries that won't allow men to go into the children's sections, or to playgrounds, and whatnot. Sure, statistics say that men are the more common abusers, yet I have read somewhere that a high rate of abuse by women are not reported at all, for whatever reason. So we'll likely never know the true facts.

I have heard stories (either on here or in person, I am unsure) about fathers who would take their kids to the park, holding their child's hand or playing, only to hear some passerby mutter 'paedophile' under their breath. This is their child, yet they are not free from it.

Moving aside from these issues ..
I think most men have had those moments where you would be walking somewhere and there would be a woman walking in front of you, that would just happen to be walking in the exact same direction as you. As you're walking, you can tell they're glancing nervously back at you, or quickening their pace. It's one of those horrible moments, where if you slow down, it looks dodgy, if you speed up, it definitely looks dodgy, and if you stay at your normal pace, it still looks dodgy. There's been some times where I've actually changed the way I was walking somewhere, just for this reason.

There are more issues to discuss, but this post is getting long enough as it is, but it does seem like people (be they children or women and men too, I suppose) are being conditioned to think that any man is a potential sex predator, dangerous and for a man to feel scared and ashamed of how society and other people might see them as.

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WindSock

These attitudes aren't going to change if people keep running away from children all the time.

[Deleted User]

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

Droopy time is a bad time.

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

ultimately though when is it ever a bad time other than the male equivalent of that time.

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

I'm the king o the travlurz; and it's a bad time for the rest o yes.

Mod

You haven't gotten the reaction you are looking for so please stop with the nonsense.

Son Of A Vidic

Deleted User wrote: »

I think most men have had those moments where you would be walking somewhere and there would be a woman walking in front of you, that would just happen to be walking in the exact same direction as you. As you're walking, you can tell they're glancing nervously back at you, or quickening their pace. It's one of those horrible moments, where if you slow down, it looks dodgy, if you speed up, it definitely looks dodgy, and if you stay at your normal pace, it still looks dodgy.

When this happens to me, I find cartwheeling past the lady in question to be the perfect medium.

hardCopy

I remember walking down George's Quay in Dublin a couple of years ago. I had just put my girlfriend into a taxi and headed home. I spotted a girl lying face down, completely unconscious on the path. There was nobody else around as there are no pubs or clubs along this stretch.

I was afraid to approach her as I figured if she woke up to find me standing over her she'd freak out, if the next person who came along found me trying to wake her it might look like I was 'interfering' with her. Also, if anything had already happened to her and the Gardai rolled up with me beside her I'd be prime suspect.

I ended up walking past on the opposite side of the road and waiting around the corner, where I could still see her and make sure nothing else happened to her. I rang my girlfriend to see what she thought I should do and luckily a couple came along a minute or two later and looked after her.

I'd be fairly civic minded and my first instinct was to check her breathing, put her in the recovery position etc. But as a man walking alone I just didn't feel I could go near her.

Ruudi_Mentari

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Not that child sex abuse is not a serious issue, just needs to be guarded against without losing focus.

is the kind of fire you can only spread in trying to douse.

I haven't seen pdfile in a long time though, so I await a flood of em now

sebastianlieken

My friend and I were having this discussion and the prejudice is really horrible sometimes. She is 25, about 5ft nothing, and very smiley and unintimidating looking.

she said: "but that's why I'm gonna try my best not to let it stop me doing the right thing - if a child falls over I'm gonna pick it up and hold its hand until we find its parent"

fine. But would you switch places with me? Would you want to be the 6ft guy holding a crying kids hand while he/she is screaming "I want my mommy!"

I wouldn't.... if I was confronted with that situation i'd probably avoid the kid altogether and let them figure it out on their own. Which is utter BS.

[Deleted User]

SeventySix wrote: »

I have never heard of a man being accused of anything while helping a lost child in a shopping centre. Has anyone? Is the fear of accusation that keeps men from helping children as unfounded as the fear people have of their child being abused while lost in a shopping centre.

I think its a bit self perpetuating. The less common it is to see a man help a child, makes it all the more suspicious when a man does help a child. The less normal it becomes to see men alone with children, the more suspicious people will be when they do see it.

That was something else that popped up in this thread - why are men so self-suspicious? There must be a reason for it, it's not like it would come out of absolutely nowhere.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

When this happens to me, I find cartwheeling past the lady in question to be the perfect medium.

Brilliant. Though with my terrible balance and sense of depth perception, I'd likely just knock her over.

Son Of A Vidic

Deleted User wrote: »

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

When this happens to me, I find cartwheeling past the lady in question to be the perfect medium.

Brilliant. Though with my terrible balance and sense of depth perception, I'd likely just knock her over.

Look on the bright side though. You knocking her over could be the start of a loving relationship.

Or you knocking her over, could land you with a loving cell mate.

Either way you're in a relationship, so it's a win-win.

GalwayGuy2

That was something else that popped up in this thread - why are men so self-suspicious? There must be a reason for it, it's not like it would come out of absolutely nowhere.

There does seem to be a fairly constant "what makes men rape" lately. It's porn, it's objectification, it's "a short skirt", so on and so forth.

Add it to the barrage of abuse scandals that have came to light, from formerly trusted officials, and it does lead to a paranoia from everybody.

In admittedly varying degrees.

Zulu

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Look on the bright side though. You knocking her over could be the start of a loving relationship.

If Hugh Grant has taught us anything...

tritium

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

There does seem to be a fairly constant "what makes men rape" lately. It's porn, it's objectification, it's "a short skirt", so on and so forth.

Add it to the barrage of abuse scandals that have came to light, from formerly trusted officials, and it does lead to a paranoia from everybody.

In admittedly varying degrees.

I'd go a bit further in that even in quite a few recent AH threads there's been an undercurrent of "all men are rapists", and an unwillingness to acknowledge that men can be victims from a minority of fairly vocal posters.

In some cases it seems to be driven by personal (admittedly sometimes terrible) experiences that are generalised and projected onto the whole male gender. Quite often its let go unchallenged as if someone's terrible experience gives them a free pass to abuse a section of society for evermore.

April O Neill

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

When this happens to me, I find cartwheeling past the lady in question to be the perfect medium.

Yep, that's going to help her feel less nervous!

everdead.ie

Probably the worst thing about being a man at least in Ireland is that the mother of your children fills out the Birth Cert and can leave the Fathers name blank essentially removing any rights you have to your child.

Then 9/10 the Mother will get Custody of The children in any divorce.

Men have no rights to Children in Ireland and we are made second guess oursleves any time we stand within ten feet of someone under 18 in case someone might get the wrong idea!

Other than that we have it pretty sweet though.

The Corinthian

Is it a bad time to be male? If you're in a Western country, especially an English-speaking one, then probably yes.

You're something like four times more likely to commit suicide than a woman, yet the resources being put into this problem are minuscule. You're more likely to be arrested, rather than be given a warning and if found guilty of a crime more likely to receive a more severe sentience - some gender biased sentencing rules are even still codified in law.

Indeed, there isn't a single law that protects men against discrimination on the basis of gender where men are disadvantaged. There are some gender neutral ones, but they only exist in areas where women are disadvantaged.

Where it comes to your rights to your fertility or children, you have few, if any. If you're the victim of domestic violence or sexual assault, you're more than likely going to be ignored and have nowhere to go. Don't even think about becoming homeless, btw.

If, as a child, you have sex with an under-age girl who's actually older than you, then you (and only you) can be prosecuted for it. If, as a child, an adult woman has sex with you, then it's not even legally rape - assuming that you can get your voice heard over the cries of 'lucky kid'.

If you find yourself in a relationship and it ends, then you are going to lose out financially in the overwhelming number of cases. You don't have to be married for that, btw - just cohabiting for a few years will put you in that situation.

And of course, you're doomed to be a potential rapist and paedophile (even though a substantial number of the latter are not men).

So yes, it's a pretty bad time to be a man.

bodice ripper

I can honestly say that if I see a man over 30 playing with a child in an affectionate manner, the only thought that goes through my head is "good man", and I move on.

Child snatching by strangers is incredibly rare.

clairefontaine

bodice ripper wrote: »

I can honestly say that if I see a man over 30 playing with a child in an affectionate manner, the only thought that goes through my head is "good man", and I move on.

Child snatching by strangers is incredibly rare.

It's not usually the strangers you have to worry about. It's those who work on gaining the child's trust, usually friend of family, family member or someone in the child's life.

If you gain the child and parents trust first, can take a few years to make it impenetrable, then the child won't be believed when something does happen, in fact it will confuse the child so much, the child may not even believe it. The parents will be outraged at such an accusation, and blame it on pedo hysteria.

How could you say such a thing about my uncle, my husband, my whatever. And then without proper evidence you can be charged with defamation.

Might explain why an offender on average can molest 150 boys before getting caught and 60 girls (girls talk more than boys, which is why the number is lower).

But strangers do do things too. No doubt about it.

bodice ripper

clairefontaine wrote: »

It's not usually the strangers you have to worry about. It's those who work on gaining the child's trust, usually friend of family, family member or someone in the child's life.

If you gain the child and parents trust first, can take a few years to make it impenetrable, then the child won't be believed when something does happen, in fact it will confuse the child so much, the child may not even believe it. The parents will be outraged at such an accusation, and blame it on pedo hysteria.

How could you say such a thing about my uncle, my husband, my whatever. And then without proper evidence you can be charged with defamation.

Might explain why an offender on average can molest 150 boys before getting caught and 60 girls (girls talk more than boys, which is why the number is lower).

But strangers do do things too. No doubt about it.

The risk to any one child (esp if you raise them to speak out and believe them...) is minute. The paedo is the bogey-man du jour.

Gbear

Another one I've noticed, I offered a girl a lift once on a country road (not 7 or anything, late teens or so).

It was pissing rain and it was a dangerous road. I can obviously see why she wouldn't have risked it but it's sad that people can't trust each other.

Guarantee she would've hopped in if I was a woman though.

Legs.Eleven

Deleted User wrote: »

I spent this weekend at my girlfriend's house, during which time, her two year old niece came visiting. This child and I get on really well, as I do with children in general. We were playing and dancing and just having a good time, as you would with any young child. Once the child had gone, we had a discussion about this and I remarked about how bad it must have looked to anybody else - this is a child that is not mine, who I have met only a few times, and yet I am holding her hand, or she is running to give me a hug, or giving me high five.

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Its a good point.

I parked my car the other day. I wasn't getting out as I was waiting to collect someone. I noticed I was across the road from a playground with kids in it. I said fcuk that and moved the car own the road.

I felt as if I was obliged to move as I didn't "own" any of the kids, so had no business to be there. Plus I didn't want passers by thinking I was a perv...so I put my pants back on.

Deleted User wrote: »

Disregarding the joke at the end, something similar has happened to me. My girlfriend works in a creche and one day I was going to meet her on her lunchbreak. The bus dropped me off near there, so I thought I would wait near there and stood a tiny bit away from there. In my head I kept thinking how dodgy it must have looked, avoiding eye contact with the creche completely, focusing all my attention on my phone instead, and yet some woman still crossed over the road from where she was walking, asking me if I'm OK, before continuing on her walk.

IvySlayer wrote: »

Well I'm a male in my 20s, picked up my niece from her school plenty of times, I've never really felt any awkwardness I must say. Although I was walking my dog earlier, and 2 8 year old girls came over to make a fuss of him in the green, I kept thinking 'Oh God I hope no-one is watching me',

I remember reading about a famous Boardsie who was picking his children from school, was told men can't park near the school gates...that is shocking...if a teacher said that to me...

hullaballoo wrote: »

One of the most awkward moments of my life happened last summer when this particular issue slapped me in the face like a bat out of hell.

I've been with my girlfriend for a few years and she has a friend who is a single mum. Her son who is five is particularly interested in dad-like men and craves this attention. As someone who grew up as an only-child with a single mum (my dad died a few months before I was born), I can see exactly why he wants a dad-like man to entertain him.

Anyway, I was being dad-like and taking this fella down to the rocks on Sandycove beach. He says "I need to wee" and I panicked completely because there's no place for him to go. I took him back to where my car was parked and told him to wee against the wheel. He said he didn't want to wee on my wheels, so he wee'd on the wheels of the car next to mine. Lo and behold, the owners of that car came back.

You won't believe it but they were nuns! What the fcuk?! So this 5-year-old cops on straight away that he can't wee on a nun's car and stops weeing. Incredible. But he still needs to finish this wee. So, after the nuns take like 20 minutes to reverse out of their parking space, he finishes his wee on the immaculate Audi beside my car. Never been so proud.

All of the while, I was scared sihtless I was going to be viewed as a paedophile just because I had this little fella who needed a wee!? I was cautious enough that I was on the phone to his mum the whole time this was happeneing. She thought it was fcuking hilarious of course but didn't see why I felt so alarmed!

Afterwards. we went to the shop, bought him super-cool sunglasses and then went on the Wii until Mum and son were too tired to function.

There is nothing wrong with any of the above but I could still be accused of all sorts of things both by the mother and by the authorities. That's what makes men afraid of being near children. Personally, I don't think that's a good thing for parent or child.

Zulu wrote: »

It's also a bad time to be a little girl lost....

I was recently in a shopping centre (Ilac iirc) and there was a little girl crying, lost. She was about 7 at a guess (I've a niece that age). Although my instinct was to approach her, and calm her down, and help her find her parent(s), my wife wasn't with me. So instead, I left her there and went running for a security guard.

When I found one, and convinced him to return with me she was gone. I assume in the meantime her parent had returned.

But its sad that as a man, society (or at least my best perception of society) deems me as more of a risk to the child as her being lost on her own.

Now I know I'm going to get slaughtered for this and I really don't mean to stir **** but one thing struck me while reading all these stories: nothing actually happened in them. No one accused you of anything. It was something you all felt might happen but didn't.

Could it be that some of the fear you have of being around children is unnecessary? That the fear of being judged is bigger than the actual threat of being judged? Genuine question btw.

I wouldn't think twice if I saw a man being affectionate with a child - I can't imagine any rational-minded person would.

Edit: Can I just add, I'm not denying this is a problem at all and obviously your fears are rooted somewhere but perhaps I just need someone to clear up where they lie.

srm23

Deleted User wrote: »

Disregarding the joke at the end, something similar has happened to me. My girlfriend works in a creche and one day I was going to meet her on her lunchbreak. The bus dropped me off near there, so I thought I would wait near there and stood a tiny bit away from there. In my head I kept thinking how dodgy it must have looked, avoiding eye contact with the creche completely, focusing all my attention on my phone instead, and yet some woman still crossed over the road from where she was walking, asking me if I'm OK, before continuing on her walk.
.

you seem to be in a lot of compromising positions and attract a lot of dodgy looks for someone completely innocent...

Legs.Eleven

srm23 wrote: »

you seem to be in a lot of compromising positions and attract a lot of dodgy looks for someone completely innocent...

Wtf?

a posse ad esse

Balmed Out wrote: »

I have no idea about nursing but from a child protection perspective that has been the norm in Ireland for about 15 years. I think since the swimming scandals with the two Olympic coaches. An adult is never supposed to be on their own with a child who isnt their own regardless of them being male or female.

I work in a hospital with adult patients and we need two present. I wasn't referring to children as patients and in most cases parents are always present with them. I remember when I was in my teens I used to go see my paediatrician (male) and never had a nurse present. I went to see him regarding my irrelgular menstrual cycle and he took a swab down there without anyone else present, certainly a paediatrician would not be doing that today and would have another present or refer them to a female doc.

Arpa

My father was having his lunch outside Spar on a sunny day recently. Sitting on the bonnet of his car having his sandwich and coffee. A little girl, about 6 and her mother walked by, and my father being the type who will chat with anyone and who loves kids said to the little girl, "Ah how are ya doing!"

He did so in a purely friendly, "old Dublin say hello to the little one" type of way.

He was a bit taken aback when the 6 year old replied, "**** off ye paedo".

The mother said nothing and he was shocked. Later he told me he actually felt hurt by it and you can see his dismay.

It's gone too far now. Men cannot be nice to kids without someone making assumptions. The sad thing is that the mother probably told her kid not to talk to strangers but felt it necessary to add, "because men who talk to little kids are paedos".

wolfpawnat

Links234 wrote: »

it's something that happens to a lot of LGBT people as well, that people assume if someone's gay they're going to abuse children. there was a girl who was thrown out of her home when she came out to her parents and they didn't want her around her younger sister because they were convinced she'd hurt her. it's sad, and really should be challenged.

My uncle (my son's godfather) is "accused" (for lack of a better word, because they never wonder or ponder it, they throw it at him like an accusation

) of being gay and as a result, people tell me not to leave my son alone with him for a moment! He also spent time in Artane as a young lad when his mam died, so because they think he may be gay, and because they assume he was molested, my son is in danger of him. People's close mindedness hurts my head.

Overall I am cautious with my son, stranger and even friends danger is drilled into him, but the other day he ran into the men's bathroom in Debenhams and when I was outside calling him, an undercover security guy revealed his proof to me and said he would go in and get him. I was okay with it, I would think it would be a brave a-hole that would try anything in a busy shopping centre toilet with other men around, because most men would go insane if they thought there was anything untoward going on.

clairefontaine

bodice ripper wrote: »

The risk to any one child (esp if you raise them to speak out and believe them...) is minute. The paedo is the bogey-man du jour.

Its one in four girls and one in six boys are estimated.

Big enough statistic for me.

Legs.Eleven

Arpa wrote: »

My father was having his lunch outside Spar on a sunny day recently. Sitting on the bonnet of his car having his sandwich and coffee. A little girl, about 6 and her mother walked by, and my father being the type who will chat with anyone and who loves kids said to the little girl, "Ah how are ya doing!"

He did so in a purely friendly, "old Dublin say hello to the little one" type of way.

He was a bit taken aback when the 6 year old replied, "**** off ye paedo".

The mother said nothing and he was shocked. Later he told me he actually felt hurt by it and you can see his dismay.

It's gone too far now. Men cannot be nice to kids without someone making assumptions. The sad thing is that the mother probably told her kid not to talk to strangers but felt it necessary to add, "because men who talk to little kids are paedos".

Probably?

Just having a stab in the dark, yeah? So you don't think the kid just picked it up in the playground like I did as a kid, no? You genuinely believe that mother said to her child, "Any man who talks to you is a Paedo"? Really?

bodice ripper

clairefontaine wrote: »

Its one in four girls and one in six boys are estimated.

Big enough statistic for me.

by strangers?

Speisekarte

clairefontaine wrote: »

Its one in four girls and one in six boys are estimated.

Big enough statistic for me.

What specifically do those statistics refer to?

The fact there is a significant chance ( studies range from 3% to 30%) a man could be unknowingly raising another man's child is one to add to the list.

srm23

The Corinthian wrote: »

If, as a child, an adult woman has sex with you, then it's not even legally rape - assuming that you can get your voice heard over the cries of 'lucky kid'.

Nice.

clairefontaine

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Now I know I'm going to get slaughtered for this and I really don't mean to stir **** but one thing struck me while reading all these stories: nothing actually happened in them. No one accused you of anything. It was something you all felt might happen but didn't.

Could it be that some of the fear you have of being around children is unnecessary? That the fear of being judged is bigger than the actual threat of being judged? Genuine question btw.

I wouldn't think twice if I saw a man being affectionate with a child - I can't imagine any rational-minded person would.

Edit: Can I just add, I'm not denying this is a problem at all and obviously your fears are rooted somewhere but perhaps I just need someone to clear up where they lie.

It begs the question of who exactly are the hysterics?