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Child Item

How prepared are you really?

Rhinocharge

Just a bit of fun, what would you do in a worse case scenario.
Scenario:

Day 1: 38 Irish tourists fall sick on return from Spain.
Day 2: Young child first fatality of unknown pathogen. Remaining 37 are being treated in an intensive care unit in Cork University Hospital.
Day 3: Dept. of Heath has confirmed eleven more cases of a new respiratory virus believed to be related to SARS, bringing to 48 the number of cases it reported this week. Symptoms first appeared over the past 72 hours.
Day 4: Cork ITC unit under quarantine.
Day 5: 14 further cases discovered in Galway.
Day 6: 22 further cases discovered in Dublin.
Day 7: 608 new cases desend on Cork hospital. Virus has broken quarantine.
Panic buying hits shops.
Day 8: Authorities shut down airports & ferries. Border closed between north & south.
Day 9: Dublin hospitals over run with influx of 10,000's of patients. Mainly children & the elderly.
Day 10: Transport links begin to shut down. Panic buying hits supermarkets.
Day 11: Power shortages, broadband issues, telecoms work fine.
Day 12: Power off in all but major urban areas.
Day 13: Water supplies turned off, looting begins. Marshal law initiated.
Day 14: You are on your own.

What do you do?

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Rhinocharge

I'd stay put. The inlaws would have to do without my company & I theirs.
Reminds me I don't actually have any gas masks or other sundry in the house.

ShadowFox

I've enough food in for 6 weeks could make it last 8 at a push.1 week of mres. Water for 2 weeks. Enough paper plates bowls plastic cups and knives forks for a month. Plenty meds and first aid. Marine ply cut to size for all the Windows and doors. 200 batteries headlamp for everyone hand windup torches too. Small generator and enough fuel for about 80 hours. Lots of n95 masks 1 full gas mask with 2 spare filters (nbc)

Water would be my main problem if it wasn't raining for a couple of weeks

[Deleted User]

It depends. Have I a resistance to the pathogen? Presuming I (and family) do, I'd stay put. I grow my own veg, and can hunt and forage. Where I live has a good road infrastructure and, if the virus has wiped out a significant amount of the populace, a few shops nearby for other foods.

Druss.

thehippychippy

First thought, s**t myself. Will have to work on that on that one. Hopefully, after changing my pants, I'll have my water storage filled at first sign of water shortages, we're on a hospital line and haven't been cut off for years. Have enough food for 2 months deffo, maybe 3. Veg are starting to come on but not ready yet. Things get really bad, load up the van and exit city to parents in Meath. Thinking bout his has actually pointed out how unprepared I am compared to how prepared I'd like to be.

aaakev

Food i have enough for a couple of months this can be suplimented by hunting so will last longer, l also have clean water nearby from a spring so not a whole lot stored tbh but can increase storage very quick if needed, a few extra bags of dog food, heaps of candles, lighters, matches, extra coal and alot of wood for heat, a couple of camp stoves for cooking and gas for them. The bbq out the back could be used but i would probably only use this at the start to save the gas in the stoves because if people got desperate the smell of a bbq could atteact unwantet attention! My fatal flaw in this scenario is the lack of nbc suits or masks.... Both are cheap enough so i will pick some up.

Rhinocharge

Deleted User wrote: »

It depends. Have I a resistance to the pathogen? Presuming I (and family) do, I'd stay put.

Druss.

My understanding of SARS is that you must be in close phyiscal contact of an infected individual. There is no cure, so if you had a resistence, you & your family would be in hot demand.

thehippychippy wrote: »

Thinking bout his has actually pointed out how unprepared I am compared to how prepared I'd like to be.

Same for me. I thought I was prepared but I was wrong.:o

aaakev wrote: »

My fatal flaw in this scenario is the lack of nbc suits or masks.... Both are cheap enough so i will pick some up.

My thought's exactly.

Some more food for thought:
SARS has a Biohazard level: 4/4 Hazardous :

Viruses and bacteria that cause severe to fatal disease in humans, and for which vaccines or other treatments are not available, such as Bolivian and Argentine hemorrhagic fevers, H5N1(bird flu), Dengue hemorrhagic fever, Marburg virus, Ebola virus, hantaviruses, Lassa fever, Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever, and other hemorrhagic or unidentified diseases. When dealing with biological hazards at this level the use of a Hazmat suit and a self-contained oxygen supply is mandatory. The entrance and exit of a Level Four biolab will contain multiple showers, a vacuum room, an ultraviolet light room, autonomous detection system, and other safety precautions designed to destroy all traces of the biohazard. Multiple airlocks are employed and are electronically secured to prevent both doors opening at the same time. All air and water service going to and coming from a Biosafety Level 4 (P4) lab will undergo similar decontamination procedures to eliminate the possibility of an accidental release.

ShadowFox

The main things that worry me about something like this happening is
1) Lack of water there is only so much you can store
2) Sewers don't know the detailed working of the system will they last
3) Security there is only so much you can do. You start piling bodies in you front or back yard people are gonna come at you harder and faster
4) Mental state there is only so long you can hold it together

Danpad

If I caught it and survived I'd be tempted to ring up the hotline and tell the army boys to come and get me in the hopes that they'd secure me in the most sterile place possible so they could drain me of whatever it is they need! If not, food wise-I'd be good for approx six months. Water- good for 2-3 months plus a nearby river. Security-Messrs GSD, Boxer, Khukuri and compound plus my little 'group' would have to suffice. Albeit a hypothetical scenario, I think it's something like this which could be the 'kill shot'.

Rhinocharge

ShadowFox wrote: »

The main things that worry me about something like this happening is
1) Lack of water there is only so much you can store
2) Sewers don't know the detailed working of the system will they last
3) Security there is only so much you can do. You start piling bodies in you front or back yard people are gonna come at you harder and faster
4) Mental state there is only so long you can hold it together

Water shouldn't really be an issue. It rains here more often than not.
A solar still could be set up, if things got really bad.

The sewer issue can be rectified quite easily.
Number 1's can be disposed of or collected in a container to be recycled into drinking water.
Number 2's can be collected & moved to a burn pit. Kerosene would sort that out. The burn pit would have to be at least 30 yards from the house though.

The security issue would bother me too. The only thing that we've come up with is to block all the windows & doors downstairs & live upstairs.
The fridge, freezer, dishwasher, washing machine & drier all become dead weight if there is no power or water & therefore could be used to blockade the doors in & out of the house. Sitting room furniture could be used for reinforcing the windows. I need to get a fire chain ladder to escape from upstairs just in case. (I feel like a boarderline nutter thinking like this

)

Board games would keep you going only so long. Technically you could still move about, just steer clear of other people. So a day foraging at the beach or a day river fishing or hunting would be alright.

The only real issue would be if a member of your family got sick.
Bring them to the hospital or not? Would you put them out of the shelter? Could you?
I'm not sure I could. Or if I got sick where would I go? Deserting my family would be an issue. I haven't passed on enough knowledge.

Does anyone know what the states policy is if a pathogen hits our shore is?
All I've found is this:
http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/FireandEmergencyServices/EmergencyPlanning/

ShadowFox

The river near me should be ok and the rain but knowing this country we would get a heatwave at the same time

I'm not Bear Grylls so won't be drinking my own

Going out risks you catching something or being attacked. I'd have someone watching at a distance comms linked

If someone got sick that would be a real problem. Bringing them to hospital your risking them getting sicker or you catching something
Me getting sick I guess id take over a neighbours house ( if empty ) so I could offer a little protection or advice over comms

Rhinocharge

ShadowFox wrote: »

I'm not Bear Grylls so won't be drinking my own

There are 2 ways to purify urine.
1: Make a solar still.
2: Water purification tablets.

It's not ideal, but better than thirst.

silentrust

ShadowFox wrote: »

The river near me should be ok and the rain but knowing this country we would get a heatwave at the same time

I'm not Bear Grylls so won't be drinking my own

Going out risks you catching something or being attacked. I'd have someone watching at a distance comms linked

If someone got sick that would be a real problem. Bringing them to hospital your risking them getting sicker or you catching something
Me getting sick I guess id take over a neighbours house ( if empty ) so I could offer a little protection or advice over comms

It was great to talk with you and the others in the thread I started about obtaining water Shadowfox, as I think this is something we overlook to often.

We agreed that a makeshift filter plus Iodine was a good stopgap but can be harmful long term.

I would feel comfortable filtering and boiling the water in my rain butts however this implies you have a steady source of fuel!

With sickness you might need a way to quarantine your infected family member - easier said than done I suppose.

ShadowFox

Rhinocharge wrote: »

There are 2 ways to purify urine.
1: Make a solar still.
2: Water purification tablets.

It's not ideal, but better than thirst.

I know how to do it but hell no

aaakev

Cade courtleys surviving disaster covered this scenario of a sars outbreak, it was a good show. One of the group got sick and the quarantined him in an upstairs bedroom. They used sheets of plastic at the door to create a clean space and minamise anything getting out, they also used an extractor fan at the window to help draw out bad air.

Contact was minamised and who ever was looking after the sick person wore n95 masks, gloves ect and washed properly after

ShadowFox

silentrust wrote: »

It was great to talk with you and the others in the thread I started about obtaining water Shadowfox, as I think this is something we overlook to often.

We agreed that a makeshift filter plus Iodine was a good stopgap but can be harmful long term.

I would feel comfortable filtering and boiling the water in my rain butts however this implies you have a steady source of fuel!

With sickness you might need a way to quarantine your infected family member - easier said than done I suppose.

Fuel wise there is plenty of stuff around that will burn in either your fire place or a barrel out in the garden

Quarantine would require heavy strong plastic lots of bleach masks gloves either the painters disposable coveralls or something stronger

madmaxi

Ahem fire hydrant, all the water you want or need.

aaakev

madmaxi wrote: »

Ahem fire hydrant, all the water you want or need.

All depending on there being pressure and if your water is off its likely thats off too

ShadowFox

madmaxi wrote: »

Ahem fire hydrant, all the water you want or need.

Unsure if they will be of use if there is no mains water

madmaxi

aaakev wrote: »

All depending on there being pressure and if your water is off its likely thats off too

ShadowFox wrote: »

Unsure if they will be of use if there is no mains water

As far as I'm aware it's not directly part of the public mains system. It's hooked up to an emergency supply. It's supplied by mains, but the water only flows in & a valve prevents the water flowing back wards. Therefore water in the hydrant is stored until needed.

ShadowFox

madmaxi wrote: »

As far as I'm aware it's not directly part of the public mains system. It's hooked up to an emergency supply. It's supplied by mains, but the water only flows in & a valve prevents the water flowing back wards. Therefore water in the hydrant is stored until needed.

Water is due to be cut off in my area next week might try putting that to the test

silentrust

ShadowFox wrote: »

Fuel wise there is plenty of stuff around that will burn in either your fire place or a barrel out in the garden

Quarantine would require heavy strong plastic lots of bleach masks gloves either the painters disposable coveralls or something stronger

Frankly under the circumstances where medical help wasn't forseeable I think a more radical solution would be advisable i.e terminating the infected person as an act of mercy and to protect others. Am I allowed to say that on here? There is a precedent in Irish law for this kind of thing if we want to get into this but I have been baiting feminists in the other thread so don't want to get into any trouble here.

Rhinocharge

silentrust wrote: »

Frankly under the circumstances where medical help wasn't forseeable I think a more radical solution would be advisable i.e terminating the infected person as an act of mercy and to protect others. Am I allowed to say that on here?

Hypothetical situation, but what if the person only has a chest infection or bacterial pneumonia. You'd be dispatching a member of your family or team whom could be cured. The symptoms would be similar & although the rest of the group could catch the illness, it wouldn't neccessarily be life threatening, except to the very young or old.
Plus you maybe infected would you want your other half/buddy or the guy that dislikes you to have that choice?

Plus the dispatch scenario would be problematic.
Forget the issues of the actual deed, but disposal also raises further problems.
Burial may not be an option, cremation maybe the safest one.
An infected individual would be a biohazard.

silentrust

Rhinocharge wrote: »

Hypothetical situation, but what if the person only has a chest infection or bacterial pneumonia. You'd be dispatching a member of your family or team whom could be cured. The symptoms would be similar & although the rest of the group could catch the illness, it wouldn't neccessarily be life threatening, except to the very young or old.
Plus you maybe infected would you want your other half/buddy or the guy that dislikes you to have that choice?

Plus the dispatch scenario would be problematic.
Forget the issues of the actual deed, but disposal also raises further problems.
Burial may not be an option, cremation maybe the safest one.
An infected individual would be a biohazard.

As memory serves there was an article on the SurvivalistBlog about disposing of a dead body but yes, a dead body can be just as much of a liability as a live, infected one!

We also have to bear in mind that any draconian rules we invent post-collapse will be applied to ourselves along with everyone else. I assume in this hypothetical scenario though we would be dealing with an epidemic and have a reasonable idea what the symptoms are?

ShadowFox

From watching my neighbours id say at least half would try run to somewhere else so id probably take over one of their houses and turn it into my private hospital for my group / family as I can protect it from a distance and de contaminate before I enter my own house

Rhinocharge

silentrust wrote: »

I assume in this hypothetical scenario though we would be dealing with an epidemic and have a reasonable idea what the symptoms are?

Rhinocharge wrote: »

Day 3: Dept. of Heath has confirmed eleven more cases of a new respiratory virus believed to be related to SARS, bringing to 48 the number of cases it reported this week. Symptoms first appeared over the past 72 hours.

Worth a read:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0004460/
The symptoms are very similar to alot of other heath issues.

Rhinocharge

In case anyone was wondering the reason I chose a SARS was it's currently in France:
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/site/?pageid=event_update&edis_id=EH-20130508-39155-FRA

Thankfully the French authorities are on the ball.

GY A1

madmaxi wrote: »

As far as I'm aware it's not directly part of the public mains system. It's hooked up to an emergency supply. It's supplied by mains, but the water only flows in & a valve prevents the water flowing back wards. Therefore water in the hydrant is stored until needed.

no,
fire hydrants are fed by the same water supply pipe feeding ur estate or area,
there are no seperate water pipes to hydrants, except in exceptional or specific places,
no water stored either, unless the town has a reservoir as back up and that will still be very limited, maybe 24 - 48 hours backup if supply feeding in fails,

GY A1

ShadowFox wrote: »

Water is due to be cut off in my area next week might try putting that to the test

hi
try it out, but if the area is out of water then hydrants will be to,
usually fire service is notified of such disturbances and can make adequate cover in event of fire in the area,
thats if there is communication between then the relevant departments :rolleyes:

madmaxi

GY A1 wrote: »

no,
fire hydrants are fed by the same water supply pipe feeding ur estate or area,
there are no seperate water pipes to hydrants, except in exceptional or specific places,
no water stored either, unless the town has a reservoir as back up and that will still be very limited, maybe 24 - 48 hours backup if supply feeding in fails,

So much for that idea. Well that's me back to digging the well.

GY A1

madmaxi wrote: »

So much for that idea. Well that's me back to digging the well.

any stream nearby,
talk to some old guys in ur area, you'd be amazed the amount of natural springs that can be closeby,
well in the west anyway