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Dublin Airport City

bear1

Hey lads,

First time poster, avid reader.
I recently read a old newspaper article from 2008 about DUB's plans to develop the 350 acres of land they have into a highrise area.
It says the completion date is some between 2020-2030... I cant find any other updates with regards to this.
Anyone have any clues?

EDIT: Sorry mods, I've posted this in the Motors section. Could you please move it to the appropriate forum please

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L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

Nonsense. Post-completion of the re-signalling project which stretches from the city centre to Clongriffin there will most definitely be the capacity.

You could certainly provide a minimum 4 per hour DART to/from the airport.

I would imagine that the Howth branch would become an off peak shuttle to/from Howth Junction, which would result in a higher frequency service to/from Howth (4 per hour).

But the bottom line is that it could certainly be done with minimal impact.

Firstly, that capacity is already intended for other uses. 4 per hour and longer travel time than the bus = nobody will use it. Metro would beat buses and bring you to the city centre.

Making the Howth branch a shuttle = you'll end up with less total number of people using the train.

This is nothing more than an attempt at a spoiler by IE.

cabrasnake

lxflyer wrote: »

Nonsense. Post-completion of the re-signalling project which stretches from the city centre to Clongriffin there will most definitely be the capacity.

You could certainly provide a minimum 4 per hour DART to/from the airport.

I would imagine that the Howth branch would become an off peak shuttle to/from Howth Junction, which would result in a higher frequency service to/from Howth (4 per hour).

But the bottom line is that it could certainly be done with minimal impact.

No there won't - that capacity will be completely taken up by extra DORT, Northern and Maynooth line services.
You clearly haven't a clue about the plans and studies done re this issue.

The problem is you are paying 200 million for an extension that will get you into the city center only about 10 minutes faster then the existing bus services and will require a long walk at Connolly (with bags) and a change onto Luas.

Not attractive and just not worth doing.

LXFlyer

MYOB wrote: »

There is no capacity on the Northern Line for a spur. Fixing that will cost about as much as building Metro North, but without serving Swords or providing any journey time benefit over buses.

Its Irish Rail kite-flying in the hope they might get a few quid, nothing more.

Nonsense. Post-completion of the re-signalling project which stretches from the city centre to Clongriffin there will most definitely be the capacity.

You could certainly provide a minimum 4 per hour DART to/from the airport.

I would imagine that the Howth branch would become an off peak shuttle to/from Howth Junction, which would result in a higher frequency service to/from Howth (4 per hour).

But the bottom line is that it could certainly be done with minimal impact.

L1011

There is no capacity on the Northern Line for a spur. Fixing that will cost about as much as building Metro North, but without serving Swords or providing any journey time benefit over buses.

Its Irish Rail kite-flying in the hope they might get a few quid, nothing more.

Sam Russell

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Woah woah, first of all this was nothing but a vision for the future, yesterday's future. And in yesterday's future Metro North was built.

Why do people think everything getting built in this country was paid by them?

Glorified shed? I'd love to see how you arrived to the conclusion that Terminal 2 is a glorified shed. Please expand on that.

Yes, to hell with the Railway Procurement Agency, National Transport Authority and Irish Rail, it's the Dublin Airport Authority that should be building railway lines in this city. Building a DART spur to the airport would be very unwise. It's not a direct link and would take way too long to get to the airport, however if it was built after DART Underground, it does have an advantage that it will connect the airport to the main line therefore making it more accessible for people from outside Dublin.
But if we build that now, it will impede the construction of Metro North which connects parts of Dublin like Ballymun, DCU and Swords to the city centre and both Luas lines. It's not just about the airport, it's about public transport for Dublin and best way to do that would be to build DU, then MN and then the DART spur to the airport.

So your objection to a Dart spur from the northern line is that it will stop the building of the Metro North?

The spur could be built quickly, and would be a certain connection to and from the city, needed for passengers connecting with flights. Traffic and tunnel closures are unpredictable.

The spur could continue on through Ballymun and onto existing rail lines on the west of the city.

We have one Dart line, two Luas lines (that don't join up), so we need a few chair lifts, a couple of monorails, and perhaps some Liffey taxis to complete the set. Perhaps the Bertie dream machine needs reactivating.

cabrasnake

It is a glorified shed and should be twinned with that glorified shop called the Bank of Ireland College Green.

Peregrine

petronius wrote: »

I was looking back at some boomtime follies and thinking and this idea always puzzled me.
One thing was i suspicious of the airport building it considering the massive cost to the tax payer that terminal 2 was for a glorified shed.
Also if the DAA were not able to build a rail link to the city either via a spur to the northern line, or a new line into the city via finglas, royal canal docklands, or via an underground or via Metro North what faith would you have in them producing a new town off the M1 with facilities public transport links etc.
High Rise and more generally high density housing developments should be coupled with public transport (luas, metro rail etc) to fully appreciate their benefits

Woah woah, first of all this was nothing but a vision for the future, yesterday's future. And in yesterday's future Metro North was built.

Why do people think everything getting built in this country was paid by them?

Glorified shed? I'd love to see how you arrived to the conclusion that Terminal 2 is a glorified shed. Please expand on that.

Yes, to hell with the Railway Procurement Agency, National Transport Authority and Irish Rail, it's the Dublin Airport Authority that should be building railway lines in this city. Building a DART spur to the airport would be very unwise. It's not a direct link and would take way too long to get to the airport, however if it was built after DART Underground, it does have an advantage that it will connect the airport to the main line therefore making it more accessible for people from outside Dublin.
But if we build that now, it will impede the construction of Metro North which connects parts of Dublin like Ballymun, DCU and Swords to the city centre and both Luas lines. It's not just about the airport, it's about public transport for Dublin and best way to do that would be to build DU, then MN and then the DART spur to the airport.

ted1

murphaph wrote: »

Depends on the context. "small" and "big" are entirely subjective. Berlin is a "big city" by most European's reckoning (3.5m population inside the city boundary, another ~1 million in the adjacent areas of the state of Brandenburg) but a Mexico City resident might beg to differ.

Dublin is without contest the heart of the Irish economy and that economy is growing ever more dependent on highly skilled workers who in general will demand a certain standard of living. If Dublin fails to compete with the Munichs of this world then ultimately the Googles of this world will move on to somewhere more appealing to their staff.

Having a high sky line doesn't equate to having a better offering.

Don't get me wrong I have no problems with high rise and think the docks or IFSC could accommodate them.
I just feel that there is not a demand for them.

murphaph

ted1 wrote: »

1.5m people= small city

Depends on the context. "small" and "big" are entirely subjective. Berlin is a "big city" by most European's reckoning (3.5m population inside the city boundary, another ~1 million in the adjacent areas of the state of Brandenburg) but a Mexico City resident might beg to differ.

Dublin is without contest the heart of the Irish economy and that economy is growing ever more dependent on highly skilled workers who in general will demand a certain standard of living. If Dublin fails to compete with the Munichs of this world then ultimately the Googles of this world will move on to somewhere more appealing to their staff.

ted1

Pixel Eater wrote: »

It's the same reason the Dart Underground and Metro North have run into so much opposition; a general failure to accept Dublin isn't a quaint little town anymore but a fairly big and gritty city that needs a major overhaul.

You're absolutely correct though.

1.5m people= small city

Hootanany

A Monorail would be the best for The City centre to the Airport.

markpb

If you're waiting for DAA, an airport operator, to build a train line, you'll be waiting a long time. It's nothing to do with them, we have the NTA and RPA for that.

Also, you misunderstand how T2 was financed. The taxpayer did not pay for it. DAA took out a loan (backed by the state) to cover the construction costs. That loan is being paid back out of the fees paid by passengers who use the airport. If you never fly through T2, you won't pay for it.

I'm ignoring the glorified shed comment.

petronius

I was looking back at some boomtime follies and thinking and this idea always puzzled me.
One thing was i suspicious of the airport building it considering the massive cost to the tax payer that terminal 2 was for a glorified shed.
Also if the DAA were not able to build a rail link to the city either via a spur to the northern line, or a new line into the city via finglas, royal canal docklands, or via an underground or via Metro North what faith would you have in them producing a new town off the M1 with facilities public transport links etc.
High Rise and more generally high density housing developments should be coupled with public transport (luas, metro rail etc) to fully appreciate their benefits

Peregrine

Pixel Eater wrote: »

It's the same reason the Dart Underground and Metro North have run into so much opposition; a general failure to accept Dublin isn't a quaint little town anymore but a fairly big and gritty city that needs a major overhaul.

You're absolutely correct though.

Ah shur why do we even need an aeromoport in quiet lil town like ours

Bloody hate that mentality.

Pixel Eater

bear1 wrote: »

why would anyone reject the tower? People are still stuck in the Georgian era me thinks If Dublin was like Rome I could understand but as it isnt it seems to be the perfect candidate for a mix of 21st century and 17 to 19th century.
Took nearly 20 years to complete the M50 ffs

It's the same reason the Dart Underground and Metro North have run into so much opposition; a general failure to accept Dublin isn't a quaint little town anymore but a fairly big and gritty city that needs a major overhaul.

You're absolutely correct though.

bear1

The Airport City plan could still happen though, in 20 or 30 years time. But bear in mind, there were even objections for building an 86m control tower at the airport (which would be necessary when the new runway is built and possibly another terminal in the future) because it was "visible from the city centre".

why would anyone reject the tower? People are still stuck in the Georgian era me thinks

If Dublin was like Rome I could understand but as it isnt it seems to be the perfect candidate for a mix of 21st century and 17 to 19th century.
Took nearly 20 years to complete the M50 ffs

Peregrine

bear1 wrote: »

5 to 7 stories you say.... seen bigger highrises in Lapland Dublin would look fantastic with them. Need to get rid of ABP before the murder the city with ****e.
Dublin is a fantastic looking city though just need that extra bit...

Actually, under Section 25 of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority Act 1997, the DDDA was certified to grant planning permission within the Docklands and there was nothing ABP could do about it.

When the DDDA was abolished in 2013, Dublin City Council retained these Section 25 Applications power within the docklands(Strategic Develoment Zone they called it). As we all know ABP HATES highrise and this meant that maybe if DCC approves with any future projects, they can certify it without ABP interfering.
So the people rejoiced

Only to be stabbed in the back by the DCC who mentioned in their draft scheme for Dublin SDZ that a height of 60m would be considered appropriate for the SDZ.

*sigh* basically, the authorities are feckin the city sideways..

The Airport City plan could still happen though, in 20 or 30 years time. But bear in mind, there were even objections for building an 86m control tower at the airport (which would be necessary when the new runway is built and possibly another terminal in the future) because it was "visible from the city centre".

bear1

5 to 7 stories you say.... seen bigger highrises in Lapland

Dublin would look fantastic with them. Need to get rid of ABP before the murder the city with ****e.
Dublin is a fantastic looking city though

just need that extra bit...

Peregrine

I read about this on the Dublin Airport website a few times but I can't find it any more. Here's some more info on the 2008 proposal from DAA website:

http://www.daa.ie/gns/media-centre/press-releases/08-04-25/DAA_Announces_Plans_for_World_Class_%E2%82%AC4_Billion_Development_-_Dublin_Airport_City.aspx

I don't think it even received planning permission. The 140 hectare development was estimated to cost around €4bn and mainly consist of office space.

Few pictures:

2260_1_airport%20city1big.jpg

bear1 wrote: »

I would love to see the Docklands transformed into a highrise area... can picture landing in Dublin at night time, would be pretty cool

That was the intention when DDDA was established but unfortunately the Docklands is being turned into another big 5 storey apartment estate. There are only a few blocks left in it if we ever have money to build proper highrise.

Recently a company started planning to build student accommodation in the Docklands..3 to 7 stories.

Highrise district my ass.

bear1

I would love to see the Docklands transformed into a highrise area... can picture landing in Dublin at night time, would be pretty cool

Heroditas

A highrise town development out near the airport?
Hmmm sounds familiar. What could possibly go wrong?

bear1

No, to come up with pointless plans (i.e. extra tolls on the M50) when there is no need.

carlmango11

bear1 wrote: »

Typical of this country

To stop building when there's no demand?

JupiterKid

AFAIK this "airport city" was a boom-era hubris fuelled dream. It may eventually be built in some shape or form but not in the original timetable hoped for.

bear1

Typical of this country

donvito99

Nothing ever came of this AFAIK.

HJ Lyons were the master planners. You might find more there.