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Season 3 Episode 10: Have NOT read the books

garv123

Its nearly upon us

Whats the earliest this will be available to watch?

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Bacchus

quad_red wrote: »

But they don't help that sense of irrelevance to the main story by showing no reactions to her.

Like, a Targaryen with dragons has now sacked/ conquered two heavily armed cities, absorbed their armies/resources and now has a fleet of ships.

Reaction in Westeros.... None. Bar one scene with Tywin dismissing her dog sized dragons. Ffs, the only one worried is Jeoffrey!

I think it's been done well. It's an interesting enough story of rags to Queen in itself with enough interaction with the main plot to remind you, this is ultimately going somewhere. There was the assassination attempt and King Rob went on about her quite a bit in Season 1. In Season 2, lip service was paid to her and her dragons in a fair few conversations but there were more pressing troubles at the time. Fair enough IMO. Also, she only had Dothraki at that point and was therefore not considered a threat. At the end of Season 2 she took Qarth, didn't look that difficult in the end. I think their main defence was the big walls around it and the desert outside.

It is only in Season 3 that she had her first real victories and got herself an army. The war is still raging in Westeros though so she's still a problem for tomorrow. Tywin dismisses the dragons as being the size of cats. Her army is 8,000. Rob alone (with his bannermen) had an army of what? 20,000 was it? Her last victory literally happened at the end of the season, word of it would not have spread to Westeros yet. I imagine that now the war is over, there will be a lot more focus on her from Westeros. Well, I hope so anyway because it has reached the point, in my mind anyway, that she can no longer be ignored.

Duckworth_Luas

quad_red wrote: »

Like, a Targaryen with dragons has now sacked/ conquered two heavily armed cities, absorbed their armies/resources and now has a fleet of ships.

Reaction in Westeros.... None. Bar one scene with Tywin dismissing her dog sized dragons. Ffs, the only one worried is Jeoffrey!

Daenerys Targaryen may as well be on the Moon as far as the Westerosi are concerned.

Rumours arrive from the far east of a different continent of a forgotten, if not completely unknown, Targeryen princess and her extinct beasts. Such stories are probably brought by sailors. Remember in season 2 Tyrion dismisses such tales, “And the fisherman of Lannisport say they see mermaids".

Tywin is fighting real wars with 3 different "kings", he is also old enough to have seen the remains of the last actual living dragons. Hardly fearsome beasts! Joffery, on the other hand, has just stopped reading the children's story books we see Stannis' daughter reading with Ser Davos.

In medieval Europe who would have raised an eyebrow at rumours of someone sacking Baghdad?

thiarfearr

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Daenerys Targaryen may as well be on the Moon as far as the Westerosi are concerned.

Rumours arrive from the far east of a different continent of a forgotten, if not completely unknown, Targeryen princess and her extinct beasts. Such stories are probably brought by sailors. Remember in season 2 Tyrion dismisses such tales, “And the fisherman of Lannisport say they see mermaids".

In medieval Europe who would have raised an eyebrow at rumours of someone sacking Baghdad?

What if the person sacking Baghdad had been in line to take take the European throne, and had already sacked other notable cities? There'd be some interest, especially if she had an army of the best trained soldiers in the known world, and possibly, if they didn't know the khalasar had abandonded her, a huge ammount of dothraki as well.

A-Trak

I should probably rewatch a few episodes, but I'm unsure of something,

Why is bran so keen to go north of the wall?

ambid

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Daenerys Targaryen may as well be on the Moon as far as the Westerosi are concerned.

Rumours arrive from the far east of a different continent of a forgotten, if not completely unknown, Targeryen princess and her extinct beasts. Such stories are probably brought by sailors. Remember in season 2 Tyrion dismisses such tales, “And the fisherman of Lannisport say they see mermaids".

Tywin is fighting real wars with 3 different "kings", he is also old enough to have seen the remains of the last actual living dragons. Hardly fearsome beasts! Joffery, on the other hand, has just stopped reading the children's story books we see Stannis' daughter reading with Ser Davos.

In medieval Europe who would have raised an eyebrow at rumours of someone sacking Baghdad?

When the Mongols were sacking half of Asia, including Baghdad, people in medieval Europe were definitely crapping themselves.

Gbear

ambid wrote: »

When the Mongols were sacking half of Asia, including Baghdad, people in medieval Europe were definitely crapping themselves.

I suppose it's a bit different because the mongols could just mosey into Europe.

The sea being in the middle makes the distances much longer.

thiarfearr

Gbear wrote: »

I suppose it's a bit different because the mongols could just mosey into Europe.

The sea being in the middle makes the distances much longer.

Not a big sea though, 'the narrow sea'. Stannis was able to invade by sea, would have taken the city too if Tywin hadn't showed up in time

Duckworth_Luas

ambid wrote: »

When the Mongols were sacking half of Asia, including Baghdad, people in medieval Europe were definitely crapping themselves.

Rulers in London and Paris hardly batted an eyelid! Asiatic nomads attacking an Arab city in Asia!

In any case you'll find that Mongol expansion came to a sudden halt when they reached Eatern Europe never mind even attempt to invade the West.

Artful_Badger

thiarfearr wrote: »

Not a big sea though, 'the narrow sea'. Stannis was able to invade by sea, would have taken the city too if Tywin hadn't showed up in time

Ned Stark urged the King to let her be even in the knowledge she was to wed Khal Drogo. The King on his deathbed seen the wisdom in it. Then Khal Drogo died, the Dothraki as a force abandoned her. Word surfaced she has three dragons which last time the world checked had developed into a smaller and less dangerous creature. They are only likely getting wind of the full facts now which is that her and her runt dragons along with an army of no more than 10,000 sacked a slave city on the far side of the ocean. Still no reason to believe the dragons or the army is a threat to the seven kingdoms of Westeros.

I'd say Daenerys would only realistically become an issue when word comes that she's on her way to Westeros. Maybe now that Tywin feels Stannis and Rob have been dealt with he might give more of a **** but I doubt the King of England would have given too much thought to the Mongols if he was entrenched in war on several fronts.

Gbear

thiarfearr wrote: »

Not a big sea though, 'the narrow sea'. Stannis was able to invade by sea, would have taken the city too if Tywin hadn't showed up in time

She's not just across the narrow sea. She's miles away.

She's down from Pentos, across, through the archipelago where Valyria used to be and in that bay next to it. Yunkai is on the coast near to the river between the "Dothraki Sea" and the "Red Waste".

I don't think distances are ever given that clearly but it's thousands of miles.

For scale, you can see the Wall up north. That's 300 leagues or about 1000 miles. It's 300 miles.

ambid

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Rulers in London and Paris hardly batted an eyelid! Asiatic nomads attacking an Arab city in Asia!

In any case you'll find that Mongol expansion came to a sudden halt when they reached Eatern Europe never mind even attempt to invade the West.

Yeah but the Mongol expansion only halted because the Great Khan died so the lads had to go home to elect a new one, and until then they had crushed every army they faced on their march west. Most of Eastern Europe joined forces in Poland and Hungary against the Mongols but you're right the French and English didn't.

A better example might be Saladin as when he unified Muslim forces and threatened Jerusalem, most of Europe - including the French and English - united in a crusade against him. So even in the middle ages western Europe were aware of and mobilised against threats in the Middle East.

It's different in the GOT universe though. I think only King Robert was worried about the East, I guess as usurpers always worry about themselves getting usurped, and it doesn't seem on the radar of the others yet.

thiarfearr

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Ned Stark urged the King to let her be even in the knowledge she was to wed Khal Drogo. The King on his deathbed seen the wisdom in it. Then Khal Drogo died, the Dothraki as a force abandoned her. Word surfaced she has three dragons which last time the world checked had developed into a smaller and less dangerous creature. They are only likely getting wind of the full facts now which is that her and her runt dragons along with an army of no more than 10,000 sacked a slave city on the far side of the ocean. Still no reason to believe the dragons or the army is a threat to the seven kingdoms of Westeros.

I'd say Daenerys would only realistically become an issue when word comes that she's on her way to Westeros. Maybe now that Tywin feels Stannis and Rob have been dealt with he might give more of a **** but I doubt the King of England would have given too much thought to the Mongols if he was entrenched in war on several fronts.

We've seen already though that Ned isn't exactly bright when it comes to threats, or he wouldn't have lost his head.
It's not exactly right equating her with the Mongols, she has a claim to the throne and potentially the support of the people of Westeros. I'm sure the king of England would pay some attention if the legitimate heir to the throne he usurped was making waves sacking supposedly strong cities and moving west, even if it was another part of the world

Gbear wrote: »

She's not just across the narrow sea. She's miles away.

She's down from Pentos, across, through the archipelago where Valyria used to be and in that bay next to it. Yunkai is on the coast near to the river between the "Dothraki Sea" and the "Red Waste".

I don't think distances are ever given that clearly but it's thousands of miles.

For scale, you can see the Wall up north. That's 300 leagues or about 1000 miles. It's 300 miles.

Yeah but you implied the sea being in the middle made the distance a whole lot further, when in reality it's not too much of a jump.

Professional Griefer

Gbear wrote: »

She's not just across the narrow sea. She's miles away.

She's down from Pentos, across, through the archipelago where Valyria used to be and in that bay next to it. Yunkai is on the coast near to the river between the "Dothraki Sea" and the "Red Waste".

I don't think distances are ever given that clearly but it's thousands of miles.

For scale, you can see the Wall up north. That's 300 leagues or about 1000 miles. It's 300 miles.

Theres a great interactive map on the website.

Artful_Badger

thiarfearr wrote: »

We've seen already though that Ned isn't exactly bright when it comes to threats, or he wouldn't have lost his head.
It's not exactly right equating her with the Mongols, she has a claim to the throne and potentially the support of the people of Westeros. I'm sure the king of England would pay some attention if the legitimate heir to the throne he usurped was making waves sacking supposedly strong cities and moving west, even if it was another part of the world

What could he do to avoid losing his head ? I dont see how you could say he wasnt bright when it came to threats, he knew exactly what was going on and did all in his power to stop it. He was ultimately led into a trap when betrayed by several people he had no options but to seek help from. He even swore allegiance to Geoffrey and admitted to treason to try save his daughters.

Any king would keep abreast of what she was up and it would be more of an issue if it was the main threat. King Robert wasnt at war and her claim was the main threat to him whihc is why he cared so much. But I doubt he'd be much concerned of her doings on the other side of the world while engaged in war already with several people fighting for control of the kingdom. For as long as the Lannisters have had the throne they have been at war. Stannis landed in the capital and fought at the gates of the Kings Landing and was barely defeated. Rob defeated them in several battles and captured Jamie Lannister. They have been pretty busy fighting ongoing wars to spend a whole lot of time worrying about another one in future.

DeepBlue

A-Trak wrote: »

I should probably rewatch a few episodes, but I'm unsure of something,

Why is bran so keen to go north of the wall?

I think I missed that too (mainly 'cos Bran's trek to the Wall was such a borefest).
I get the impression that he's convinced he has to go beyond the Wall due to something he saw in his visions of the three-eyed raven but I'm not sure.

thiarfearr

Artful_Badger wrote: »

What could he do to avoid losing his head ? I dont see how you could say he wasnt bright when it came to threats, he knew exactly what was going on and did all in his power to stop it. He was ultimately led into a trap when betrayed by several people he had no options but to seek help from. He even swore allegiance to Geoffrey and admitted to treason to try save his daughters.

He trusted Littlefinger, a man who lusted after his wife and he was already suspicious of, and worse, told Cersei of his plans.

Artful_Badger

DeepBlue wrote: »

I think I missed that too (mainly 'cos Bran's trek to the Wall was such a borefest).
I get the impression that he's convinced he has to go beyond the Wall due to something he saw in his visions of the three-eyed raven but I'm not sure.

The guy he's with told him he had to go up there because of the warg business I think. Said something about the raven was leading him somewhere and he'll find the answer up north and the fate of the word depends on him and his ability because the nights watch cant defeat the white walkers.

thiarfearr

DeepBlue wrote: »

I think I missed that too (mainly 'cos Bran's trek to the Wall was such a borefest).
I get the impression that he's convinced he has to go beyond the Wall due to something he saw in his visions of the three-eyed raven but I'm not sure.

The Reeds told him he needs to find the three-eyed raven, and by the looks of it he thinks he can stop the whtie-walkers, judging by what he said to Sam

Artful_Badger

thiarfearr wrote: »

He trusted Littlefinger, a man who lusted after his wife and he was already suspicious of, and worse, told Cersei of his plans.

The King was alive at the time though and Ned knew Robert would have them all killed when he found out, so he gave her a chance to flee. She already knew he knew about the kids anyway because Pycelle was another snake in the grass. He wastn adept at the in house politics but he wasnt a fool when it came to threats to the kingdom. He made the right call in regards Daenerys as the attempt on her life was the very thing that set her on a path to Westeros.

thiarfearr

Artful_Badger wrote: »

The King was alive at the time though and Ned knew Robert would have them all killed when he found out, so he gave her a chance to flee. She already knew he knew about the kids anyway because Pycelle was another snake in the grass. He wastn adept at the in house politics but he wasnt a fool when it came to threats to the kingdom. He made the right call in regards Daenerys as the attempt on her life was the very thing that set her on a path to Westeros.

She was on a path to Westeros anyway, she just hadn't convinced Drogo yet. Now she has a growing army of some the best soldiers in the world and will be a threat to Westeros, which wouldn't have happened if she was killed.

Speaking of Pycelle, I hope he meets a grizzly end, my least favourite character, up there with Frey

Artful_Badger

thiarfearr wrote: »

She was on a path to Westeros anyway, she just hadn't convinced Drogo yet. Now she has a growing army of some the best soldiers in the world and will be a threat to Westeros, which wouldn't have happened if she was killed.

Speaking of Pycelle, I hope he meets a grizzly end, my least favourite character, up there with Frey

She wasnt, she had decided her place was with the Dothraki and it was her brother that was after the seven kingdoms not her. But after the attempt on her life Mormont said they would never stop trying to kill her and that set her on a path back to Westeros.

Pycelle is a rat of the highest order, I thought I'd seen the end of him when Tyrion carted him off when he was made hand of the king.

thiarfearr

I always got the impression she never really gave up on Westeros, but Drogo did until the assassination attempt

Mr. CooL ICE

I would do some googling, but am afraid of accidentally reading spoilers, so I'll ask here instead.

What's the story with Storms End? Who has controlled it since Renly died? Did it fall into the hands of the Tyrells?

Artful_Badger

thiarfearr wrote: »

I always got the impression she never really gave up on Westeros, but Drogo did until the assassination attempt

From what I remember once she married Khal Drogo she was removed from her brothers influence. It was her brother that was the heir to the iron throne and him who married her off to get control of the army. It was all his doing. Once he died she was happy to be Khaleesi and didnt seem to care about Westeros, as I recall she didnt even remember much about it. But the assassination attempt meant she couldnt live in peace so it set in motions her plans of reclaiming it.

Artful_Badger

LordChessington wrote: »

I would do some googling, but am afraid of accidentally reading spoilers, so I'll ask here instead.

What's the story with Storms End? Who has controlled it since Renly died? Did it fall into the hands of the Tyrells?

I thought that was where Stannis was holed up no ?

A Neurotic

Nope, Stannis is on Dragonstone.

Skylinehead

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I thought that was where Stannis was holed up no ?

He's on Dragonstone. He does control Storm's End as well.

Syferus

It'll be interesting how seriously Tywin takes the White Walker threat. If he doesn't move his armies the north will be totally overrun by Wildlings and White Walkers in no time. It'd make for some awkward bed fellows, at least.

shrewdness

Great scenes again between Arya and The Hound. The girl that plays Arya(Maisie Williams) really is a fantastic young actress. The scenes that Arya has with many characters(Jaqen, Tywin, The Hound etc.) are some of the most interesting and engaging in their respective episodes and the dynamics between these characters and Arya is excellent. She's fast becoming my favourite character, though from early on she was there or thereabouts.

Good to see Arya exact a little bit of revenge in this episode and The Hound backing her, particularly enjoyed the exchanges between them after they'd killed the soldiers! The Hound is all she has right now, I'm really interested to see where that storyline is going.

Turtyturd

Didn't the majority of the bannermen at Storm's End side with Stannis after Renly died?...I would assume it is under Lannister control now.

Can I ask where you got the scale from GBear? Have been paying more attention to the maps lately myself and haven't been able to find a scale.