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Child Item

Dublin Passport Control Possible Discrimination

aldeirm2

I went to Madrid on holidays with the lads for the bank holiday weekend, and on my return to Ireland I waited in the EU Passports queue with my Irish passport (it was a long enough queue) and as usual i saw every single person in front of me just flash the passport and run through, when it was my turn I showed the officer my Irish passport, he then proceeded to grab it off me, inspect it very thoroughly and then ask me questions such as:

Where are you coming from?
Do you live here?
Do you have a job here?

Its important to note that I am slightly dark skinned, I have a Arabic name and I'm not originally from Ireland but have lived here for practically all my life.

I answered his questions and then he let me through, now I have no issues with passport control asking people questions including my self for the safety of Ireland, because Ireland's safety means my safety.

But to be honest I don't see how questions such as "do you have a job here?" or "do you live here?" will determine weather I am going to be allowed in to my home country or why out of bout 30 people that i saw go through i was the only one being asked any questions ( I am afraid to say I was the only none Caucasian in the queue.)

I think this was just some old school racism and a way to tell me "just because you have an Irish passport, don't mean you will be treated like one" and to be honest it worked, because it made me feel like a second class citizen.

I'm wondering if anyone has ever been questioned going in to Dublin on their Irish or EU passports?

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Del2005

trashcan wrote: »

Just a point on that, if someone turns up at immigration and states that they want to claim asylum they have to be allowed to do so.

Going OT. The correct procedure is to apply for asylum at the first safe port of entry you reach. We are at least 2 ports of entry from nearly every other country in the world. So unless they are resident in Europe, the US or a few other countries then they shouldn't be applying at our ports of entry.

Victor

Del2005 wrote: »

Going OT. The correct procedure is to apply for asylum at the first safe port of entry you reach. We are at least 2 ports of entry from nearly every other country in the world. So unless they are resident in Europe, the US or a few other countries then they shouldn't be applying at our ports of entry.

No. Transit points don't count.

dowlingm

Del2005 wrote: »

Going OT. The correct procedure is to apply for asylum at the first safe port of entry you reach. We are at least 2 ports of entry from nearly every other country in the world. So unless they are resident in Europe, the US or a few other countries then they shouldn't be applying at our ports of entry.

A quick read of this link would tell you the ability to determine the "correct" avenue for someone to apply for asylum ain't quite that simple.

Del2005

Victor wrote: »

No. Transit points don't count.

Why would someone in fear look to go to Ireland, which will be quite expensive to get to, unless they know it's better than applying in the transit country

dowlingm wrote: »

A quick read of this link would tell you the ability to determine the "correct" avenue for someone to apply for asylum ain't quite that simple.

Thanks. That is what I was trying to say but it's explained better in Articles 9-2, 9-5, 10-1

derry

There is no need to take any questions from the Irish frontier control.
Passport = Pass the port. If you read it it says please facilitate the bearer of this Pass the Port ( unless he is involved in common law crime )
The passport is treaty the government has with themselfs and the people . Unwarranted searches without probable cause is BREAKING the INTERNATIONAL LAWS.
Really doesn't matter which country you go to the same rules apply but the British USA and the Irish seem sto the most likly to break the rules .
The trick Question they often ask is are you a CITIZEN of this country. Naturally a Irish person will reply yes .Now they cooked their goose and loose all their rights and can be detained searched and forced to reply the Questions they ask . Under INTERNATIONAL LAW A CITIZEN is lower class of person in their country particularly in the USA a CITIZEN is way-down the pecking order compared to bearer of PASSPORT who has full rights . The trick question is to change you from from passport holder with treaty rights to CITIZEN with fewer rights . Your reply yes I am citizen of this country removes the rights the passport gave you .

If it happened to me and the guy asked me some question I would simply say to him if you care to read the PASSPORT it states that your obliged to facilitate my travels. the result for most passport controllers some 99% will be they hand the passport to you and wave you on as they know everything about the laws and know unless they can get you to reply to certain questions they don't have the right to stop you (unless they have specific intel your involved in some type of common law crime in which case they use the probable cause rule)

In a nut shell if some guy came up to you in the middle of the street and started asking the same questions you would tell him take a hike .Just cause there is some paid muppet in costume behind a bullet proof window asking the same questions for you he is actuly for you only a joker on the street until he shows you his ID .So if he starts to get funny you can ask him to supply his ID.
As civil servant he has to show you his ID .
When he shows you the ID THEN YOU DEMAND TO SEE HIS SUPERIOR .
As a civil servant (who is employed by the people to serve the people ) he must call his superior .
When that Superior arrives FLASH YOUR PASSPORT ask for his ID don't discuss anything then just demand his/her superior . Keep going up the line of command all the way to Inspector and keep going higher to even the relevant civil service minister.All the time never discuss anything with lower level civil servants. The Minster is the head of all civil servants Rarely does it go past the first supervisor .
When you flash your PASSPORT he will often send you on your way as that document is like GARLIC to VAMPIRES blocking a legitimate PASSPORT holder is asking to get fired if there is no probable cause .

Note I said Flash the PASSPORT .The PASSPORT is the PURPLE COVER with the HARP on it, not what is inside the passport .The details inside the passport only confirm your the legitimate USER (not owner of passport the government owns the passport you are only the legitimate user )

Lots more info at MSI radio www.tnsradio.ningcom (search term PASSPORT )

Think of the PASSPORT as the biggest GUN and they want you to show something else ID card or Drivers license as then you lose protection of the passport .You dont fall for the tricks you find they stop to ask stupid questions and back off as dealing with legitimate passport holders is more tricky than those that don't know their rights and reply to stupid questions which gives them JURISDICTION to harass you

The frontier control type guys at airport or similar frontier Border entry points know that once you seem to know your onions they back off real quick they don't like getting fired .They go pick on other dead heads who don't know squat and reply to the stupid questions they give them.

Derry

Judgement Day

^^ Utter tripe. With that sort of confrontational attitude you're sure to land yourself in trouble. If you've nothing to hide why would you start getting bolshie. :rolleyes:

enigmatical

I can only assume you're all on some kind of watch list lol

Never have had an ounce of bother anywhere!

Liam90

syklops

murphaph wrote: »

I think it's out of order asking Irish citizens whether or not they have a job. I accept such questions from foreign immigration services, but I wouldn't be at all happy being asked that by a guard in Dublin airport.

If they dont have a job, how could they afford a week in the sun?

I think its a legitimate question.

Anyway, questions like this are to see your reaction and to see if you are nervous or cagey.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

househero

derry wrote: »

There is no need to take any questions from the Irish frontier control.
Passport = Pass the port. If you read it it says please facilitate the bearer of this Pass the Port ( unless he is involved in common law crime )
The passport is treaty the government has with themselfs and the people . Unwarranted searches without probable cause is BREAKING the INTERNATIONAL LAWS.
Really doesn't matter which country you go to the same rules apply but the British USA and the Irish seem sto the most likly to break the rules .
The trick Question they often ask is are you a CITIZEN of this country. Naturally a Irish person will reply yes .Now they cooked their goose and loose all their rights and can be detained searched and forced to reply the Questions they ask . Under INTERNATIONAL LAW A CITIZEN is lower class of person in their country particularly in the USA a CITIZEN is way-down the pecking order compared to bearer of PASSPORT who has full rights . The trick question is to change you from from passport holder with treaty rights to CITIZEN with fewer rights . Your reply yes I am citizen of this country removes the rights the passport gave you .

If it happened to me and the guy asked me some question I would simply say to him if you care to read the PASSPORT it states that your obliged to facilitate my travels. the result for most passport controllers some 99% will be they hand the passport to you and wave you on as they know everything about the laws and know unless they can get you to reply to certain questions they don't have the right to stop you (unless they have specific intel your involved in some type of common law crime in which case they use the probable cause rule)

In a nut shell if some guy came up to you in the middle of the street and started asking the same questions you would tell him take a hike .Just cause there is some paid muppet in costume behind a bullet proof window asking the same questions for you he is actuly for you only a joker on the street until he shows you his ID .So if he starts to get funny you can ask him to supply his ID.
As civil servant he has to show you his ID .
When he shows you the ID THEN YOU DEMAND TO SEE HIS SUPERIOR .
As a civil servant (who is employed by the people to serve the people ) he must call his superior .
When that Superior arrives FLASH YOUR PASSPORT ask for his ID don't discuss anything then just demand his/her superior . Keep going up the line of command all the way to Inspector and keep going higher to even the relevant civil service minister.All the time never discuss anything with lower level civil servants. The Minster is the head of all civil servants Rarely does it go past the first supervisor .
When you flash your PASSPORT he will often send you on your way as that document is like GARLIC to VAMPIRES blocking a legitimate PASSPORT holder is asking to get fired if there is no probable cause .

Note I said Flash the PASSPORT .The PASSPORT is the PURPLE COVER with the HARP on it, not what is inside the passport .The details inside the passport only confirm your the legitimate USER (not owner of passport the government owns the passport you are only the legitimate user )

Lots more info at MSI radio www.tnsradio.ningcom (search term PASSPORT )

Think of the PASSPORT as the biggest GUN and they want you to show something else ID card or Drivers license as then you lose protection of the passport .You dont fall for the tricks you find they stop to ask stupid questions and back off as dealing with legitimate passport holders is more tricky than those that don't know their rights and reply to stupid questions which gives them JURISDICTION to harass you

The frontier control type guys at airport or similar frontier Border entry points know that once you seem to know your onions they back off real quick they don't like getting fired .They go pick on other dead heads who don't know squat and reply to the stupid questions they give them.

Derry

That is the single most retarded advice I have ever seen on here.

Cookie_Monster

derry is well know for his anti gov "freeman" postings, there some good stuff around the various boards.

Cookie_Monster

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

while you may not answer if you'd rather not I highly doubt there is anything in the legislation that prevents an immigration officer asking such questions of you.

syklops wrote: »

If they dont have a job, how could they afford a week in the sun?

Could be visiting family.

I had a Polish friend who wasn't working, but could get Ryanair flights back to his home town for €45 return and then stayed with family/friends.

He'd actually end up spending less money in Poland for a few days then here.

He is back working now, this was only for a short time between jobs.

Also s/he could be a student or even a mature student or just someone who won the lotto and isn't working any more (we can dream) or a volunteer or many other things.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

derry

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

derry is well know for his anti gov "freeman" postings, there some good stuff around the various boards.

My posting are not anti government .
They are more like if the servants step out of line and exceed their authority these methods will soon bring them back into line

We the people are higher than any government or cila servant as the government is a civil servant .As servants they are employed to work for us

Some gombeens in the government and civil servant think its they are in charge of us the people .

Using some trick questions the people who fall into those traps become temporally lesser status than the civil a servants .needless to say many civil servants are trained to ask certain trick questions and the reply then makes them superior to the victim.

If you know the script and know how to swing it back at them they often back off real quick and assume the correct role servant master where you are the master

Being the Master of the Civil servants requires you to know how to delegate your commands in correct manner .For example there is no point to ask the bin man to go rescue a person drowning at sea you need to find the right servant for that task probably the Irish defense air force

As so many In Ireland seem to think they are under he servants who work for them well what happens next the servants get out of line and start mucking you around with all sorts of stupid questions like what did you eat yesterday, do you have job etc
Sure why not your a dip stick who hasn't clue how to control the servants you employ through your taxes so you deserve to be screwed around by some guy in a costume who having a laugh at your expense

However if you know the rules of master servant the servants quickly spot it and back off real fast .

Its similar to there is car you own and you don't know how to drive it . You employ a servant to drive it for you and the servant figures he can drive the car the long way so he can pass by something he needs like some shop .So you not knowing how to control the servant let him stop half way get out to buy his stuff maybe take few hours while he is at it and you cant figure out whats wrong with this plot .
Now if you knew how to drive you would be in control of the servant if he didn't do as you commanded him

Its not anti government it simple your the boss and the servant employed for some specific task if he fails to perform on that task could risk problems from his superior servants .Untimely the boss of the civil servants is the Ministers in the government and ultimately we the people are the bosses of those servants including the governments

This reply to the passport issue was sent to explain the servant master relation ship if you want to be the servant when dealing with servants don't be surprised they don't shaft you for fun.
If the servants spot your the master they often wont try those tricks

Governments are necessary evil employed to vital tasks like infrastructure etc . Its is the people of Ireland who chose the servants and control them .If the people choose badly and don't control their servants well don't be surprised when they run riot. You cant really blame wayward servants in the civil service if the ding bats in the entire country go around thinking the servants are the boss after while the servants think it must be true the people think they must serve us what a field day we can have getting well paid to steal the sweets from the kids mouths

if you think that the government and the civil servants are the boss then you are child of the state and the civil servants will assume that as child you know squat and need to be treated like child of the state deserves for not knowing squat .So the civil servants will have the suitable script and training for that type .
If your not a child of the state they spot it real quick and it yes sir no sir whatever is your legitimate command they will endevour to do .needless to say civil servants can ignore illegitimate command .You cant ask the fire officer to go arrest the bad guys that command is reserved for use in the section of civil servants called An Garda

It clear that the Minister for Defense and Garda knows that he legaly drove away from drink drive stop and the garda on the scene were confused but the higher up knew that he was correct the Garda had no legitimate right to stop any car without probable cause so the Garda were in the wrong even if the bag was bright green that Mister knew his onions

Same with the limerick guy who was minister for defense his reply to the question was "I must have made a HONEST MISTAKE ". That curved ball back meant to progress in the case they now had to prove he had intentionally made a DISHONEST MISTAKE . As that line would rtake days he basically kicked the case out of play and so got off

There is law, there is the interpretation of law, there is different types of law civil or criminal and there is those that know how to use the law and there is servants in the system to enforce the laws .

Those that work in the system know where the get out of jail holes in the system are but they sure not going tell the children of the state they just suck their thumbs and say yes boss Mr minister

Those that expose the true story are often attacked as being anti .Naturally they attack us type we expose the holes in the system reverse the master servant system to what is really is and make the servants tow the line . Now if your a wayward servant you return back to low level status as servant and the higher the wayward servant flies the harder the crash back to boring servant role is

Derry

Derry

derry

househero wrote: »

That is the single most retarded advice I have ever seen on here.

Where your proof for that statement. Have you seen my medical records that say this or have you some degree in the subject of Retardation .Maybe are you simply a child of the state with a lot to learn as you suck your thumb and say yes boss to every civil servant who wants to waste your time

Derry

derry

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

while you may not answer if you'd rather not I highly doubt there is anything in the legislation that prevents an immigration officer asking such questions of you.

Correct the immigration officer can ask any stupid question he want to . You don't have to reply to any question a bozo on the street asks you or some servant in a custom asks you .
If your feeling lonely and want to talk to bozo or the servant in uniform go ahead The servant he is killing time asking stupid questions and two people who willing agree to talk to each other no law broken there . However in that game wrong reply can lead to more intrusive questions as each question is basically a contract meeting of the minds where the servant can change the role status so the servant becomes guardian of the child of the state and then you are forced to comply with his legitimate orders strip down search whatever

The issue is when a bozo asks a question and you don't want to reply that's where the issue is .Its clear as day on the street if the bozzo blocks your way and wont let you go you are now being harassed for no reason and can call the suitable servant like An Garda to remove this obstruction to your travels

Now any servant that wishes to obstruct your route has clear defined parameters mostly reasonable suspicion and probable cause .If the officer or servant has not got these defined parameters he becomes just another bozo on the street interfering with your legitimate travels .

The easy solution to these wayward servants exceeding their authority is to start the chain of command solution .Rarely will it exceed his supervisor to see that there is no proper reason to detain you and he will decide to let you go .If not escalate all the way to the Minister .If the minster get involved and finds the action of the other servants was basically bozzo level harassment with no proper process he can fire the entire line of staff that brought the problem to him/her. While the minister does that DOSSIER ROUGE WILL FLY ACROSS THE CIVIL Service and red folders as they call them no civil servant wants to see that their job is on the line until they can shift the blame to somebody else .

The more easy route is escalate the wayward civil servant issue up to higher up the ranks and let the supervisor look the story and they can act on it and let you proceed on your way .The fate of the civil servant or servants left behind in the wake of his/her act of folly isn't really of interest to me but others suitably aggrieved can pursue the issue at some later day

Civil servants have strict protocol for their function .Basically it requires your consent for him to progress.If you chose to not reply to his stupid questions that's your right not to reply to stupid questions .There is no implied automatic guilt attached to non reply or as they say in the USA pleading the fifth amendment.
The best rule with all civil servants where possible do not reply to their stupid questions as you might incriminate yourself .You cannot incriminate yourself keeping the mouth shut so why open it
A simple example could be the civil servant in immigration says I smell curry did you just at a curry meal on the flight coming over to Ireland.Any reply you make yes or no has screwed you .If you reply yes or no to that question the immigration officer can now detain you to verify if the reply to his question was the truth or not .Its not the reply that counts its is the reply the truth that counts .The civil servant does not have to move quickly to sort that so you might stew in curry whiff event for a few hours because you said yes or no .Now if you reply I cant remember or I don't know or something similar the game now goes to are those replies the truth or not .
A non reply is close best simple stupid . Even a nice remark nice weather today has risks can the civil servant class you as nuts with irrelevant replies. Other replies like I do not consent can work very well but generally the best is escalation and ask questions and take command what your name id and i want to see your supervisor works best for stupid questions .

Derry

.
Derry

Losty Dublin

Free Speech is supposed to be a right; by the sounds of this you must think it's a wrong

derry wrote: »

Correct the immigration officer can ask any stupid question he want to . You don't have to reply to any question a bozo on the street asks you or some servant in a custom asks you .
If your feeling lonely and want to talk to bozo or the servant in uniform go ahead The servant he is killing time asking stupid questions and two people who willing agree to talk to each other no law broken there . However in that game wrong reply can lead to more intrusive questions as each question is basically a contract meeting of the minds where the servant can change the role status so the servant becomes guardian of the child of the state and then you are forced to comply with his legitimate orders strip down search whatever

The issue is when a bozo asks a question and you don't want to reply that's where the issue is .Its clear as day on the street if the bozzo blocks your way and wont let you go you are now being harassed for no reason and can call the suitable servant like An Garda to remove this obstruction to your travels

Now any servant that wishes to obstruct your route has clear defined parameters mostly reasonable suspicion and probable cause .If the officer or servant has not got these defined parameters he becomes just another bozo on the street interfering with your legitimate travels .

The easy solution to these wayward servants exceeding their authority is to start the chain of command solution .Rarely will it exceed his supervisor to see that there is no proper reason to detain you and he will decide to let you go .If not escalate all the way to the Minister .If the minster get involved and finds the action of the other servants was basically bozzo level harassment with no proper process he can fire the entire line of staff that brought the problem to him/her. While the minister does that DOSSIER ROUGE WILL FLY ACROSS THE CIVIL Service and red folders as they call them no civil servant wants to see that their job is on the line until they can shift the blame to somebody else .

The more easy route is escalate the wayward civil servant issue up to higher up the ranks and let the supervisor look the story and they can act on it and let you proceed on your way .The fate of the civil servant or servants left behind in the wake of his/her act of folly isn't really of interest to me but others suitably aggrieved can pursue the issue at some later day

Civil servants have strict protocol for their function .Basically it requires your consent for him to progress.If you chose to not reply to his stupid questions that's your right not to reply to stupid questions .There is no implied automatic guilt attached to non reply or as they say in the USA pleading the fifth amendment.
The best rule with all civil servants where possible do not reply to their stupid questions as you might incriminate yourself .You cannot incriminate yourself keeping the mouth shut so why open it
A simple example could be the civil servant in immigration says I smell curry did you just at a curry meal on the flight coming over to Ireland.Any reply you make yes or no has screwed you .If you reply yes or no to that question the immigration officer can now detain you to verify if the reply to his question was the truth or not .Its not the reply that counts its is the reply the truth that counts .The civil servant does not have to move quickly to sort that so you might stew in curry whiff event for a few hours because you said yes or no .Now if you reply I cant remember or I don't know or something similar the game now goes to are those replies the truth or not .
A non reply is close best simple stupid . Even a nice remark nice weather today has risks can the civil servant class you as nuts with irrelevant replies. Other replies like I do not consent can work very well but generally the best is escalation and ask questions and take command what your name id and i want to see your supervisor works best for stupid questions .

Derry

.
Derry

Victor

househero wrote: »

That is the single most retarded advice I have ever seen on here.

derry wrote: »

Where your proof for that statement. Have you seen my medical records that say this or have you some degree in the subject of Retardation .Maybe are you simply a child of the state with a lot to learn as you suck your thumb and say yes boss to every civil servant who wants to waste your time

No insults please.

Derry, please desist from this line of posting.

Moderator

Scruffles

OP,
if are serious about what has happened put a complaint in;
http://www.dublinairport.com/tns/contact-us/contact-details.aspx
discrimination only improves when people affected by it make people aware these fossilised attitudes dont exist in todays society,dont accept it;report.

househero wrote: »

That is the single most retarded advice I have ever seen on here.

the irony of users posting a discriminative disablist slur in a topic about discrimination.:rolleyes:

devnull

Slightly related, coming through T1 today they have installed electronic e-passport gates, with signs there for them but they are not operational. They have replaced 2-3 of the Garda desks.

n97 mini

devnull wrote: »

They have replaced 2-3 of the Garda desks.

Presumably they'll still be on the payroll till they retire, so it could take up to 30 years for the savings to come through.

n97 mini wrote: »

Presumably they'll still be on the payroll till they retire, so it could take up to 30 years for the savings to come through.

No, they would be just transferred to other Garda duties.

In fact on a trial basis, a number of Gardai have already been replaced by civil servants with the Gardai being re-assigned to other duties.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0402/315894-dublin-airport-passport/

I also assume that the e-gates are as much about speeding things up for people going through the airport as it is to save money.

Victor

Scruffles wrote: »

OP, if are serious about what has happened put a complaint in;
http://www.dublinairport.com/tns/contact-us/contact-details.aspx

Nothing to do with the airport authorities.

Michael D Not Higgins

bk wrote: »

I also assume that the e-gates are as much about speeding things up for people going through the airport as it is to save money.

Those things are a nightmare. Went through one in Edinburgh recently but the amount of old foreign people without a clue meant the line was moving slower than the regular one.

Perhaps in time people will become more familiar with them and they'll work better.

uck51js9zml2yt

Fred Swanson wrote: »

You wouldn't get that sort of questioning going to Poland or other EU state.

my wife got grilled going to Poland on her new national passport. she's eastern European and had my name but not with the traditional suffix she should have as a female.

December2012

Referring to the OP, I am generic looking, white and I regularly get asked a few questions at airports.

Judgement Day

December2012 wrote: »

Referring to the OP, I am generic looking, white and I regularly get asked a few questions at airports.

It's a disgrace - ring Joe Duffy!

December2012

Judgement Day wrote: »

It's a disgrace - ring Joe Duffy!

Can he change my generic looks?