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Heterosexual Pride Day

kfk

First off, I am in now way homophobic. I have wondered though what the reaction from the gay community would be if there was a heterosexual pride day where people marched on the streets and shouted their joy to be straight? If it ever happened, would those involved would be seen to be anti-gay. Again, I would like to stress that I am not homophobic. Would just like to hear opinions.

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floggg

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

Europeans and Americans (especially up north) drink just as much as us. We are in the 20s in the global consumption of alcohol league. Alcohol consumption in Ireland is on the decline.

Really? Per Wikipedia (quoting 2011 WHO figures) we are 15th. US is no where near the top 20. Neither is any other American country.

Most if the countries ahead of us are Eastern European.

I don't know if you've ever been in any reasonable sized Irish town after 10pm but the evidence of our inclination towards binge drinking is fairly evident on the streets.

Paddy's day ain't the problem. In fact most of the drunks on Paddy's Day on Dublin city centre are foreigners.

It's the other 364 days of the year that are the problem.

PS - there's no drink in the Parade so I don't see how you think the Parade is at fault.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

It helps inflame the stereotype and keep it alive.

Not really, no. We binge drink, so we have the reputation. Paddy's Day actually portrays more positive eleements of Irish culture such as music and dance.

Are you against parades, full stop, or do you just think they should be nice orderly marches with no art, creativity, costumes or expression or any sort? Because you're coming across that way.

Norfolk Enchants

Saint Patricks day and binge drinking go hand in hand.

You are right btw, we are 15th. But our consumption is continually dropping. Perhaps emigration is a factor.

Norfolk Enchants

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not really, no. We binge drink, so we have the reputation. Paddy's Day actually portrays more positive eleements of Irish culture such as music and dance.

Are you against parades, full stop, or do you just think they should be nice orderly marches with no art, creativity, costumes or expression or any sort? Because you're coming across that way.

I don't give a f*ck what you do. Do your thing. Have a public orgy, self immolate or whatever. Its your march. Just don't be surprised that when you showcase the worst elements of your community, that it then puts others of supporting you in your goals.

old hippy

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

I don't give a f*ck what you do. Do your thing. Have a public orgy, self immolate or whatever. Its your march. Just don't be surprised that when you showcase the worst elements of your community, that it then puts others of supporting you in your goals.

There's an unpleasant whiff of something from your negative posts. It doesn't showcase your elements in a particularly good light.

Basically, gays should be on their best behaviour for fear of offending you, lest your support should ebb?

kiffer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yesterday during lunch there were 2 girls kissing on the quays in Dublin waiting for the bus. Somebody passing by shouted "good on ya!!"

Years ago I was kissing my girlfriend in a park in Dublin and some yob yelled "Look! Lesbians!"
He was a bit shocked when I stood up and turned around.
While "Good on ya!" might not be 'negative' it's still annoying...

floggg

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

You are showcasing your community by getting naked in public, getting drunk, getting down and dirty, men dressing up and showing off parts of their anatomy others dont want to see.....

In public. Then the next day calling for gay men to be allowed adopt.

Can you not see how this negatively affects you from achieving your goals?

Also, loads of laws are broken during gay pride marches. Drinking in public, indecent exposure, public disorder etc. but the coppers never step in. Compare that with other public events in the city centre.

Indecent exposure? Any evidence?

There's a few guys in underwear. Nothing illegal and nothing you wouldn't see at the beach.

I've never heard reports of nudity at the Parade before.

Public disorder? Again, what type are you referring to? I presume it ain't just guys kissing?

Drinking? There's none permitted and from what I gather the organisers are fairly strict about this. There was one sectioned off bar area at Merrion Square list year, that was it.

I know Front Lounge and some otjer places had a larhe crowd gathered outside, but that would be no different from the pubs in ballsbridge before a match at the Aviva.

I'm sure there probably was some people with cans/naggins too but that's no different from any major event in Ireland, be it sporting, music, Paddy's Day, or even the Students Union matches a few years back.

There are plenty of Gardaí at the parade. If there was wholesale public nudity or illegality it would be cracked down upon.

Anybody who uses Pride as an excuse to vote against gay rights was never going to vote in favour anyway.

If somebody has a problem with some men "getting down and dirty" together (aka dancing, holding hands and/or kissing) then they have a problem with gay men/gay people generally.

In which case they should just call a spade a spade and admit it.

I'd imagine if everybody at pride wore their winter clothes, the same people would still be pissed. They'd just have to find another reason to hide behind.

Norfolk Enchants

old hippy wrote: »

There's an unpleasant whiff of something from your negative posts. It doesn't showcase your elements in a particularly good light.

Basically, gays should be on their best behaviour for fear of offending you, lest your support should ebb?

We have reached an impasse here. Im obviously rubbing people up the wrong way so its probably best if I sidestep this thread. Good luck in your quest for marriage equality etc.

[Deleted User]

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not really, no. We binge drink, so we have the reputation. Paddy's Day actually portrays more positive eleements of Irish culture such as music and dance.

Are you against parades, full stop, or do you just think they should be nice orderly marches with no art, creativity, costumes or expression or any sort? Because you're coming across that way.

One parade is to celebrate a moment which helped shape a country through its beliefs.

The other is an attention seeking event acting under the guise of a movement with excuse that society has not yet accepted this way of life.

old hippy

Deleted User wrote: »

One parade is to celebrate a moment which helped shape a country through its beliefs.

The other is an attention seeking event acting under the guise of a movement with excuse that society has not yet accepted this way of life.

Read any threads here on gay marriage, homophobia etc and other related threads & then tell us that society has accepted this way of life.

old hippy

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

We have reached an impasse here. Im obviously rubbing people up the wrong way so its probably best if I sidestep this thread. Good luck in your quest for marriage equality etc.

I'm already married but thanks for the patronising tone.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

I don't give a f*ck what you do. Do your thing. Have a public orgy, self immolate or whatever. Its your march. Just don't be surprised that when you showcase the worst elements of your community, that it then puts others of supporting you in your goals.

In other words, yes, you are. Who are you to decide what the "worst elements" of a community that you know nothing about are?

Just because you find somehting is not to your taste, does not mean people need to "tone it down" or go out of their way to satisfy you.

Deleted User wrote: »

One parade is to celebrate a moment which helped shape a community through its beliefs.

The other is an attention seeking event acting under the guise of a national movement with excuse that society has not yet accepted this way of life.

Very easy to completely reverse yoru opinion there, just be changing two words: which one is which - are they not equally valid? Why is a national parade more or less valid than a cultural parade? And again, as above: who are you to decide what can and can not be demonstrated in a parade by a community you know nothing about and have no interest in?

Norfolk Enchants

old hippy wrote: »

Read any threads here on gay marriage, homophobia etc and other related threads & then tell us that society has accepted this way of life.

There was nothing patronising implied in my post. Suffering' Jesus.

Corkfeen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

One parade is to celebrate a moment which helped shape a country through its beliefs.

The other is an attention seeking event acting under the guise of a movement with excuse that society has not yet accepted this way of life.

Erm, a group of people who had their sexual orientation outlawed up until very recently in this country and which are threatened with execution in many countries this very day alongside certain groups claiming it's an illness . Yet you can't understand why they have pride and view them as attention seekers .

aloyisious

@Norfolk Enchants: If there was a Heterosexual Pride Day, do you think there would be no alcohol consumed, drugs taken, public displays of nudity or sexual congress between some people at that parade (however small a percentage-number) compared to the others at it, or do you believe they would all be totally abstemious of any of the above practices?

Canard

Deleted User wrote: »

One parade is to celebrate a moment which helped shape a country through its beliefs.

The other is an attention seeking event acting under the guise of a movement with excuse that society has not yet accepted this way of life.

You really think people are thinking about that on St Patrick's Day...am I reading this right? Why do you think other countries bother to celebrate it? When March 17th rolls around each year, do you celebrate a moment which helped shape a country through its beliefs? Please.

Your comments are blatantly homophobic, and until you can come up with better reasons than "attention seeking" (seriously?) and "pretending" that "society has not yet accepted this way of life", then no one here is going to take you seriously. Your arguments are entirely based on your own biased opinions of people who just so happen to be attracted to people of the same gender, and on alternate realities you're making to suit yourself. Believe it or not, there is a need for parades and there is still homophobia. Your posts alone are showing how homophobia is alive and well in Ireland. I'm really confused as to how you don't see that.

pharmaton

Deleted User wrote: »

One parade is to celebrate a moment which helped shape a country through its beliefs.

The other is an attention seeking event acting under the guise of a movement with excuse that society has not yet accepted this way of life.

I'm gay. Today I posted a thread about cats and dogs. The most thanked post in it is this one. If you think that homophobia has gone away you're mistaken. If that joke was about travellers or blacks or eastern europeans someone somewhere would have something to say about it but it's ok to call someone/thing a fag as a derogatory throw away remark. To most people I assume it just goes over their heads but on a daily basis I deal with peoples inability to accept something that has little or nothing to do with them or their way of life yet they continue to view homosexuality as something inherently wrong with people and for as long as they do homosexuals will always have a need to unite with each other in an effort to stamp out prejudice.

Norfolk Enchants

aloyisious wrote: »

@Norfolk Enchants: If there was a Heterosexual Pride Day, do you think there would be no alcohol consumed, drugs taken, public displays of nudity or sexual congress between some people at that parade (however small a percentage-number) compared to the others at it, or do you believe they would all be totally abstemious of any of the above practices?

Of course there would be. But heterosexuals are not fighting for marriage equality and for the ability to be able to adopt children, are they? Heterosexuals are not going to have to convince 50.01% of the electorate to vote for their goals in a referendum, are they? Homosexuals are.

Nodin

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

Of course there would be. But heterosexuals are not fighting for marriage equality and for the ability to be able to adopt children, are they? Heterosexuals are not going to have to convince 50.01% of the electorate to vote for their goals in a referendum, are they? Homosexuals are.

So despite acting in a similar manner, you're saying one group has to "behave" while the other doesn't, because they have to plead for equality....Hmmmmm.

keeponhurling

I think both hetrosexual and homosexual pride parades are a bit ridiculous. And both by default can make people feel excluded.
Your born with your sexuality, so I'm not sure it's something to especially "proud" of.

Regarding campaigning for a referendum, just go on TV and discuss the points.

The Irish electorate is very open on referendums.
e.g. they have voted for divorce, limited abortion etc. despite the Chruch campaigning against it.
They have voted against European referendums, despite all the main parties encouraging a yes vote.

Annasopra

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

Of course there would be. But heterosexuals are not fighting for marriage equality and for the ability to be able to adopt children, are they? Heterosexuals are not going to have to convince 50.01% of the electorate to vote for their goals in a referendum, are they? Homosexuals are.

Right ok - lets have a referendum to abolish marriage and adoption for straight people because of their drunken drug infueled naked sexual antics then

NuMarvel

keeponhurling wrote: »

I think both hetrosexual and homosexual pride parades are a bit ridiculous. And both by default can make people feel excluded.
Your born with your sexuality, so I'm not sure it's something to especially "proud" of.

The name Pride comes from how being gay was regarded as something shameful. And in some parts of the world, it still is. This is why suggestions of Hetero Pride miss the mark, because heterosexuals have never had to hide their sexuality or be ashamed of it in the first place.

keeponhurling

NuMarvel wrote: »

The name Pride comes from how being gay was regarded as something shameful. And in some parts of the world, it still is. This is why suggestions of Hetero Pride miss the mark, because heterosexuals have never had to hide their sexuality or be ashamed of it in the first place.

So it's not so much a question of "pride", more like "no shame in it"?

Sure aren't pride and shame both things in your own head, if you feel yourself that you have done something good you'll naturally feel pride, similarly if you did something that you deem to be wrong, it's something you'll naturally feel shame about.
All depends on your own values and moral compass, i.e. inside your own head
Make up your own mind about how you feel about things.

Not sure a parade is necessary.

Nothing wrong with being hetrosexual or homosexual. If you think there is shame, maybe it's yourself you need to be convincing?

Annasopra

keeponhurling wrote: »

So it's not so much a question of "pride", more like "no shame in it"?

Sure aren't pride and shame both things in your own head, if you feel yourself that you have done something good you'll naturally feel pride, similarly if you did something that you deem to be wrong, it's something you'll naturally feel shame about.
All depends on your own values and moral compass, i.e. inside your own head
Make up your own mind about how you feel about things.

Not sure a parade is necessary.

Nothing wrong with being hetrosexual or homosexual. If you think there is shame, maybe it's yourself you need to be convincing?

Actually I don't think sexual orientation is shameful at all but I have been told it is at many stages in my life. Including numerous times on this forum. So no the shame isn't coming from my head.Although thankfully this forum can also be very supportive of LGBT rights too. I would say that ironically enough the opinions of a homophobic and transphobic minority on AH reinforce for me the strong need and necessity for pride parades.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Norfolk Enchants wrote: »

Of course there would be. But heterosexuals are not fighting for marriage equality and for the ability to be able to adopt children, are they? Heterosexuals are not going to have to convince 50.01% of the electorate to vote for their goals in a referendum, are they? Homosexuals are.

What's this got to do with your hatred of parades?

kiffer

keeponhurling wrote: »

So it's not so much a question of "pride", more like "no shame in it"?

Sure aren't pride and shame both things in your own head, if you feel yourself that you have done something good you'll naturally feel pride, similarly if you did something that you deem to be wrong, it's something you'll naturally feel shame about.
All depends on your own values and moral compass, i.e. inside your own head
Make up your own mind about how you feel about things.

Not sure a parade is necessary.

Nothing wrong with being hetrosexual or homosexual. If you think there is shame, maybe it's yourself you need to be convincing?

Take a step back and imagine a world in which having [your eye colour] was considered shameful, people tell you all through your formative years that you should hide your eyes, wear sunglasses, get contact lenses with the correct tint... you spend a block of your life feeling you need to hide your eyes from everyone. One day you realise wait, this is silly why should I be ashamed of my eye colour... you take the sunglasses off and go out into the world, proud to be who you are... but people are still telling you that you should be ashamed of your nature... worse you know there are younger people struggling through the same thing as you did... being told every day that they should be different...
Would you let them suffer until *hopefully* they too realise it's ok to not be ashamed, that they can feel pride in who they are? Or do you stand up and let them know that the people telling them to feel shame should be told "No, you are wrong, I don't care what you say, I am proud of who I am and you and yours have hurt enough people with you baldfaced bigotry"

Now, obviously that doesn't mean that the parade should have naked people covered in lube riding away like the geeks of old if you know what I mean... but anything that a straight couple could resonably do in public should be fair game.

Men in speedos and a feather boa? Meh see worse on a beach. Men kissing men, women kissing women? If you don't object to straight PDAs then you've not really got anything different here...

Supersoakers in the shape of dildos firing jizz coloured booze? Eh that's a bit much lads.

So yes, pride and shame are in ones own head but we don't exist in some magical vacuum we form our opinions of ourselves from feedback from the world.
And frankly the feedback some people get from the world is pretty diabolical.

keeponhurling

Fair enough, though I'm not fully in agreement with you on the necessity of a parade is necessary to enforce what you say you already believe.

Perhaps rather than having separate homosexual and hetrosexual parades, as these might seem to be non-inclusive events, there could just be a sexuality parade to show that there's no shame in having sexual urges?

Annasopra

keeponhurling wrote: »

Fair enough, though I'm not fully in agreement with you on the necessity of a parade is necessary to enforce what you say you already believe.

Perhaps rather than having separate homosexual and hetrosexual parades, as these might seem to be non-inclusive events, there could just be a sexuality parade to show that there's no shame in having sexual urges?

Everyone is welcome to pride parades. We don't exclude.

keeponhurling

Well technically yes, if they are held in public places anybody can come and go as they please.

But would gay people really have a strong connection and sense of pride going to a "Heterosexual Pride Parade" as the OP mentions? Or vice-versa?

For example, as an Irish person I would have little connection to a "French Pride Parade", while a French person might have little connection to an "Irish Pride Parade", however if we just held a European pride, or Cultural Diversity Parade, both of us would feel happy attending and not feel excluded

kiffer

keeponhurling wrote: »

Fair enough, though I'm not fully in agreement with you on the necessity of a parade is necessary to enforce what you say you already believe.

Because it's not about "enforcement" it's about reducing stigma and the effects of stigma...
reminding people that they don't have to feel shame and that they shouldn't try to shame others.

Perhaps rather than having separate homosexual and hetrosexual parades, as these might seem to be non-inclusive events, there could just be a sexuality parade to show that there's no shame in having sexual urges?

I'm sure the Pride Parade is more inclusive than a place for homosexuals to show that they have sexual urges... one I'm pretty sure you're forgetting about bisexuals and the trans people... and two, all the staight people in the pride parade are there to show their support for their lgbt friends. It's not a Sex Parade it's a Pride Parade.