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Gardaí handle difficult situation

cusackd

Whats you thoughts on this, Gardaí arrest teenager after Portmarnock incident while being called scumbags from the crowd.

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Cody Pomeray

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Actually it has every relevance. If a Gardai follows the degrees of force properly he is in the clear. The first thing the court would ask is did you follow the proper procedures, if yes grand.

eh no. Not if the guidelines are seen to deviate in any respect from section 18 of the non-fatal offences against the person act. This has come up in the circuit court before.

Local-womanizer

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

eh no. Not if the guidelines are seen to deviate in any respect from section 18 of the non-fatal offences against the person act. This has come up in the circuit court before.

So every case of a person resisting an arrest and the officer using his baton has come up before the courts?

Believe it or not but the gardai are issued batons to actually use them. You will see it nearly every night in towns. I've seen it in my own workplace where a customer got violent, the baton was used, didn't work so he was gassed. It went to court and the guard involved was commended on his actions. The guy was resisting arrest in that case.

garv123

Christ above.. People in one thread complaining gardai did nothing and then complaining they were too excessive in another.

You don't wan't to be hit with a baton stop being a dick and stop resisting/causing trouble.

Cody Pomeray

Local-womanizer wrote: »

So every case of a person resisting an arrest and the officer using his baton has come up before the courts?

Of course not, but that's a different question.

In the event of a criminal charge, the DPP would look to statutory and case law governing the use of the baton; the Garda guidelines are really of very limited application to the courts. Ideally these guidelines are merely supposed to reflect the law, the law is their mother and their father.

In any case, nobody expects a charge against the garda, i'd say.

wendell borton

He was told to go away numerous times to no avail, it seems the only thing those ignorant types understand is a beating.

"resist and we'll hit ya, don't resist and we'll wrongfully arrest ya, hit us back and we'll arrest ya"

I have to admit, it seems like a very fair system.

wendell borton wrote: »

He was told to go away numerous times to no avail, it seems the only thing those ignorant types understand is a beating.

I agree, do you also think that bouncers should take the same approach to people when they're not allowed into a club? or does this logic only apply to people who are expected to enforce the law?

Local-womanizer

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Of course not, but that's a different question.

In the event of a criminal charge, the DPP would look to statutory and case law governing the use of the baton; the Garda guidelines are really of very limited application to the courts. Ideally these guidelines are merely supposed to reflect the law, the law is their mother and their father.

In any case, nobody expects a charge against the garda, i'd say.

The law does a great job of protecting the gardai in such circumstance. The guidelines are of course drawn up along side the law. If a Guard follows the guidelines he is safe. In this case he done exactly that. He never acted outside either the guidelines or the law. If the guy brought him to court the first thing the judge would ask would be did the guard act within the guidelines, as governed by the law.

Cody Pomeray

Local-womanizer wrote: »

If a Guard follows the guidelines he is safe. In this case he done exactly that.

I don't really believe you can say that with certainty. It's not really for either one of us to decide.

mattjack

augustus_gloop wrote: »

if AGS took out a machine gun , they would find majority support around this place

that said , in this instance , I don't see too much sign of excessive force with what limited detail we have

And hit him with it .

Local-womanizer

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I don't really believe you can say that with certainty. It's not really for either one of us to decide.

I'm pretty certain it would be the case. True it's not for us to decide, but if you showed this video to any solicitor and cried excessive force, they would politely tell you that you don't have a case, and the next time you come in contact with the gardai to do what your told. You have to see that there is no excessive force used here surely?

Amirani

SV wrote: »

"resist and we'll hit ya, don't resist and we'll wrongfully arrest ya, hit us back and we'll arrest ya"

It can't be wrongful arrest if the Gardaí present have reason to believe you've committed a crime. If you truly haven't committed a crime, it won't be long until you're released.

Uriel.

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Actually it has every relevance. If a Gardai follows the degrees of force properly he is in the clear. The first thing the court would ask is did you follow the proper procedures, if yes grand.

The guy wouldn't lie flat, you can still resist and even pull out a weapon with three people on top of you. Refuse to follow orders and you will be hit. Simple as that.

And not to mention the fact that for every second a garda is on the floor, trying to restrain and complete the arrest of the individual, he/she is in danger from attack from the crowd gathered around him/her. Even with other colleagues at the scene a hostile crowd is a dangerous situation. Complete the arrest as quick as possible, if the person is not following instructions and it requires a few whacks of the baton to speed things up then so be it.

NiallSparky wrote: »

It can't be wrongful arrest if the Gardaí present have reason to believe you've committed a crime. If you truly haven't committed a crime, it won't be long until you're released.

So you should just allow them to arrest you, even if you're fully in the knowledge you haven't done anything? As they can just release you afterwards without charge?

No thanks.

Amirani

SV wrote: »

So you should just allow them to arrest you, even if you're fully in the knowledge you haven't done anything? As they can just release you afterwards without charge?

No thanks.

What's the alternative? Run away? Fight them?

Uriel.

SV wrote: »

So you should just allow them to arrest you, even if you're fully in the knowledge you haven't done anything? As they can just release you afterwards without charge?

No thanks.

What's the alternative in fairness? Resist arrest. To be honest, how many ordinary citizens going about their own business face such situations? I never have, nor have any of my family.

Local-womanizer

SV wrote: »

So you should just allow them to arrest you, even if you're fully in the knowledge you haven't done anything? As they can just release you afterwards without charge?

No thanks.

Yes, that's exactly what you should do! They are hardly going to say ah sure we will take your word for it, go on sure.

Bend over boys.

If the arresting Garda does not give you a reason for your arrest then they cannot arrest you, nor can they detain you.
but you allow them to do that all you want.

tayto lover

SV wrote: »

So you should just allow them to arrest you, even if you're fully in the knowledge you haven't done anything? As they can just release you afterwards without charge?

No thanks.

The alternative to arrest was to go home as they were told.

tayto lover wrote: »

The alternative to arrest was to go home as they were told.

He was going home, albeit walking backwards. The Garda tried to grab onto his arm so he ran off and was arrested.
I thought they wanted him to go home, obviously they didn't want him to run.

tayto lover

SV wrote: »

He was going home, albeit walking backwards. The Garda tried to grab onto his arm so he ran off and was arrested.
I thought they wanted him to go home, obviously they didn't want him to run.

He was giving guff. Nobody is paid to take guff from him. He got what he deserved. Nothing more, nothing less.

Rayne Wooney

SV wrote: »

He was going home, albeit walking backwards. The Garda tried to grab onto his arm so he ran off and was arrested.
I thought they wanted him to go home, obviously they didn't want him to run.

He stopped walking to confront the Garda at 22 seconds which is when the Garda went to grab him.

cusackd

NiallSparky wrote: »

What are your thoughts OP?

Should a Garda's decision to arrest someone be based on the opinons of those in the vicinity? I don't think so.

I thought it was a bit over the top from what I can see from my armchair but I'd imagine being in the situation with hundreds of people around can warrant becoming a tad bit aggressive.

Cody Pomeray

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Cody Pomeray wrote:

I don't really believe you can say that with certainty.It's not really for either one of us to decide.

I'm pretty certain it would be the case. True it's not for us to decide, but if you showed this video to any solicitor and cried excessive force, they would politely tell you that you don't have a case

Okay, like i said, it's not for us to decide, but you seem to be suggesting you're aware of some legal principle in this regard... I'm all ears?

bigroad

This situation would not happen like that in the uk .The guards here are not trained to the proper level.The fact that when they had the teenager on the ground ,then the three of them felt the power ,and with no danger to themselves they started to baton him.Its handy doing that in a middle class area .They woudnt be so quick in a lower class estate because they would be nervous of the locals.
That situation could of being controlled quiet a lot easier with some brainpower on the job.

jugger0

Pity they didn't give big mouth a smack of the baton too, little prick.

.Henry Sellers.

They should of pepper sprayed the scum that wouldn't back off, they had enough warning. Crack heads first and ask questions later.

yore

Why don't all the people who know the fella who was causing the trouble tell us more about how lovely he is.

You know, the ones who know his age and refer to him as a teenager. Seems like a fairly big fucker to me. And not a bit afraid of confronting a guard with an Alsatian.

The first guard who caught him would have been on his own with no Alsatian and trying to restrain some aggressive fucker in the ground.

did we see the "teenager" being aggressive when the guard first caught him? No. But we saw him being aggressive and pushing at a guard with a dog and then running away. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that 20 seconds later he would have said calmly "yes guard" if another guard asked him to stop!

Would the same people here be as righteous about the poor teenager if he was a white "howiya" being taken down after giving guff to the guards, pushing and running? Honestly? Do you think you would? It's PC bullshit

Pappa Charlie

Basically a shower of Spoilt brats, who eventually meet people who don't take guff of them, it's often brats first introduction to real life, then they go on radio shows like joe joe Duffy or the Internet looking for sympathy from fellow brats!

Kenny Logins

BlimpGaz wrote: »

Answered your own question there. As to why scumbags are scumbags? My answer is GMO in the food, and degeneracy in the music and television. Crime hardly existed before the 20th century.

Really? I did not know that. Tell us more.

No Pants

I'd have let the dog off the leash after about 3 seconds.