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Paid Holidays or Genuine Charity?

keelanj69

Passed a sign today advertising a charity event so a local girl from a well to do family can go off to India to teach.

Are these type of things charitable or is it some young chancer getting a nice holiday?

Personally they annoy me. Almost as much as bag packing to send the local u10s football club to France for a week.

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Carry

Seachmall wrote: »

I could tell people about the time I had to bring food to a 10 year old who couldn't get out of bed because he couldn't get the proper medication for his HIV, or the time an emotionally unstable girl was shipped off because the staff couldn't bother to deal with her, or on the last day when one of the kids came running to the gate crying because we were leaving but those aren't the memories I like to focus on.

You see, that's the problem with these short term work-holidays for 'charity' (in this case an orphanage). People go over to a place like that to feel good about themselves and don't considerate the children at all.
How do you think it's for these children when now and again some people come over, are all helpful and cuddly and then go away again? They feel abandoned every time.
It would be by far more useful to collect money to get constant staff in an orphanage. Children not only need food, shelter and medical care, but stable relationships, too. Otherwise they are not properly prepared for life after the orphanage.

Seachmall wrote: »

I spent a tiny fraction of my life with those kids and while not every day was easy my time there was amazing. They were born into circumstances that no child should be born into but they were still full of life, they were children like any other.

Full of life? Children like any other? Really? Infected by HIV, emotionally unstable, being abandoned again and again... I'm sure they have an amazing time as well with all these white holiday makers...

The selfishness of such oh so well-meaning actions astounds me.

Capt'n Midnight

keelanj69 wrote: »

I dont know if it's part of a wider charity. I have no idea what she could offer apart from maybe english?

English ?
In India ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20500312

India now claims to be the world's second-largest English-speaking country. The most reliable estimate is around 10% of its population or 125 million people, second only to the US and expected to quadruple in the next decade.

http://newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/article607202.ece

In a major verdict, the Kerala High Court on Friday directed the CBSE/ICSE Boards to immediately enforce a condition that schools seeking affiliations should pay a minimum monthly salary of Rs 10,000 to primary and middle school teachers, Rs 15,000 for secondary school teachers and Rs 20,000 to senior secondary teachers with an additional amount to headmasters/principals of all unaided schools in the state.

10,000 INR = 139.718 EUR a month

how much does yer one need ?

Seachmall

Carry wrote: »

You see, that's the problem with these short term work-holidays for 'charity' (in this case an orphanage). People go over to a place like that to feel good about themselves and don't considerate the children at all.
How do you think it's for these children when now and again some people come over, are all helpful and cuddly and then go away again? They feel abandoned every time.

Absolutely it crushes the children, I've experienced it first hand. But the alternative is them getting the bare minimal care (in terms of nutrition, health, and attention).

There are volunteers who go back year after year, I worked with one. They are saints, but unfortunately they don't exist everywhere they're needed.

It would be by far more useful to collect money to get constant staff in an orphanage. Children not only need food, shelter and medical care, but stable relationships, too.

Where I worked the staff did just enough to keep the children alive. I've heard similar experiences from other volunteers.

In the orphanage I was at (in South Africa) it was us that brought the HIV infected kids to the hospital, gave them their medication in the morning, changed their clothes, kept the place clean, hired repair men, and so on.

The staff, bar two, were just there to make a wage.

These children homes aren't in nice places nor are they necessarily staffed by altruistic angels.

Also, if you think the money donated goes directly to the kids think again. There are plenty of people taking their cut along the way.

Full of life? Children like any other? Really? Infected by HIV, emotionally unstable, being abandoned again and again...

See, this one of the reasons I don't talk about these things. You hear about it and imagine a bunch of a children born into crappy circumstances and nothing more. And I while you can obviously appreciate that's not the case you can't understand it unless you've been there.

The selfishness of such oh so well-meaning actions astounds me.

Oh so judgmental from someone with, presumably, no experience.

keelanj69

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

English ?
In India ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20500312

http://newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/article607202.ece10,000 INR = 139.718 EUR a month

how much does yer one need ?

These are the type of people who often go over though. 'ah sure I'll go teach English'. Given the qualifications she has not much else is on offer.

That info is not disclosed, unsurprisingly. A few grand no doubt. Don't know if she'll be paid etc so a few grand more? Open to correction.

Carry

Seachmall wrote: »

Oh so judgmental from someone with, presumably, no experience.

Now, now...
I worked in my hometown with disadvantaged families and neglected children - constantly for about a year and for a pittance. No need to travel abroad or collect money to see misery in exotic countries, I even paid the tickets for the metro myself to get to their part of town.
I'm sure where you live there are children in need, too?

[Deleted User]

Seachmall wrote: »

So what if they get a few days doing the generic touristy crap? Does charity have to be entirely selfless for you to consider it worthwhile enough to donate?

Charity doesn't need to be entirely selfless, but it does require not being greedy.

Let's look at an example:
- Friend decides to go to volunteer in Africa.
- Friend organises fundraiser.
- You refuse to go to fundraiser and everyone thinks you're an ass.
OR
- You go to fundraiser and give €50.
- You then have to tighten your belt for a week (in my case it'd be more than a week). But it's worth it, because it's for charity.
- You applaud friend for being so altruistic.
- Friend uses the funds to go to Africa.
- Friend performs charitable deeds.
- While in Africa, the friend also goes out touring and drinking and enjoying themselves with the spending money they brought.

The issue is not that the person went over, or that they needed funds, it's that if the friend can afford to go out on the piss and touring around the place, why squeeze their friends for money?

There's nothing wrong with enjoying doing charity work. There's nothing wrong with taking a break during charity work to see nearby sights. There's nothing wrong with taking a holiday in general. But I do see something wrong with pressuring your friends to fund your charity work, when you've enough money to have a ball out there, because to me that's essentially pressuring your friends to pay for a holiday.

Seachmall

Carry wrote: »

I'm sure where you live there are children in need, too?

Which is why I've volunteered in various places over the years...

I even paid the tickets for the metro myself to get to their part of town.

And I paid my way to S.A.

Are you trying to one-up-me in terms of charity? Really? That'd be an extremely odd approach to this argument.

Ave Sodalis

Yup, you're right. Every single person going abroad for charity will waste the money on getting drunk and having fun. I mean, I know for a fact that all of them will hardly work over in the various places at all!
Also, when working with a charity, you should be working at all times. No, you should not learn the culture or the landscape. I didn't give you money so you can actually enjoy what you're doing. You have to work the entire time you're there and even if you're doing some seriously emotional type of work, you are not allowed a day off. If your work effects you in anyway, tough. Be miserable. I didn't give you that tenner so you can relax at any stage...

:rolleyes:

Seachmall

true-or-false wrote: »

But I do see something wrong with pressuring your friends to fund your charity work, when you've enough money to have a ball out there, because to me that's essentially pressuring your friends to pay for a holiday.

I guess I can agree with that, particularly in terms of pressuring others.

I'd guess it depends on a case-by-case basis. In my situation the volunteer work cost thousands, where as a bit of sight-seeing and nights out probably worked out at less than €800 (worth mentioning again that I paid for it all).

I'd understand if someone could afford the holiday but not the charity, in which case you'd be paying for the charity and them the holiday.

I'd have no problem paying up, but I can see why others wouldn't.

JustAThought

I agree in general ( ie I am against personally coughing up for) students 2 week or worse, 10 day, trips to Africa to " volunteer"/sightsee. I typically don't get involved in giving to them - I " expect" their parents, or friends & family to support them for their fun trip. However, despite my view on the " usefulness" of these trips ( first few days arrive & orientation/heat exhaustion etc, 2 days sightseeing, final day fare-welling & commuting to airport etc) there IS merit in the long term social justice/social conscience that that student will have for the rest of their life as a consequence of what they saw/experienced ; and in the hope that they will start a habit of giving/supporting from afar efforts to finance or change that society & this will last a lifetime.For this outcome then I think this is a long term worthwhile & useful investment - by their families.

The medical students I support uniquivically. Google Mediciens Sans Frontiers & have a look at the students images, or blogs. They go out there for months at a time, or a full year. And can provide skilled lifesaving , literally, vital and desperately needed skills. Did anyone remember seeing the " event" they did outside Blanchardstown & in town last year where they set up a sample emergency tent like a one you would have in a famine (famine!? ) or in a medical emergency like mass dehydration & starvation because of drought, or cholera caused by flooding due to changes in weather patterns. In it you saw McGyver type medical facilities - wooden fold up beds with strategically cut holes in them for sanitation & buckets placed underneath. Old fold up deck chairs as " bed" relief with poles for holding drips for starving & dehydrated brest feeding mothers. Etc. it really showed a vivid & stark harsh reality of what medical desperation was. I'd find it hard to refuse a few euro to a trained/training student nurse/ doctor to go over to those primitive conditions & live in tents in a desert with little resources for a year/ few months where they are actually contruibuting something real and desperately needed.

decisions

true-or-false wrote: »

The ones that get me are sponsorship fund raisers. I know a few people who have paid a lot of money to go sky diving.

I also know a few people who have done sponsored sky dives. In other words, they get people to pay them money to fund their sky dive, and then if there's any left over they give that to charity. That's madness! And all the while the person who's getting the free sky dive also gets the praise and publicity of being some sort of philanthropist. Ugh.

I mean, sponsored walks/runs/etc. don't make much sense to me, but at least the money raised actually goes to charity. Sponsorship that funds the fund-raiser's holidays/hobbies/opportunities to have fun are ridiculous.

I'm planning to do a sponsored skydive in a few months, but I'm covering the cost of the jump myself so all funds go to charity. I think it's ridiculous that there is even the option to have the sponsers pay for your jump unless you have raised a significant amount of money.

JustAThought

decisions wrote: »

I'm planning to do a sponsored skydive in a few months, but I'm covering the cost of the jump myself so all funds go to charity. I think it's ridiculous that there is even the option to have the sponsers pay for your jump unless you have raised a significant amount of money.

There's the trade off -what do you consider a" significant" amount of money? & out of interest is there an option of " if you make" x amount, your dive is free? ( do you know?)

The dilemma is, that if people didn't want to do the dive they wouldn't raise the money & the charity would get none of it !!! But amn' t I right in thinking there a minimum you have to raise otherwise you won't be eligible to do the jump - so the venture is profitable for the charity.
Let's face it, the charity wouldn't be trying to make the fundraising attractive & incentivise people if they didn't need to & if they didn't need the money/fundraisers!

( good luck with your jump -if you don't raise enough do they only give you half a parachute!!)

decisions

JustAThought wrote: »

There's the trade off -what do you consider a" significant" amount of money? & out of interest is there an option of " if you make" x amount, your dive is free? ( do you know?)

The dilemma is, that if people didn't want to do the dive they wouldn't raise the money & the charity would get none of it !!! But amn' t I right in thinking there a minimum you have to raise otherwise you won't be eligible to do the jump - so the venture is profitable for the charity.
Let's face it, the charity wouldn't be trying to make the fundraising attractive & incentivise people if they didn't need to & if they didn't need the money/fundraisers!

( good luck with your jump -if you don't raise enough do they only give you half a parachute!!)

In most places you need to raise €500 and half of that goes to the jump and the other to the charity. AFAIK there isn't any amount that you can raise and get the jump free but I could be wrong. As for a significant amount, I'd say something along the lines of €2500 because the jump is only 10% of the money raised.

Norwesterner

I'm teaching English in a 3rd World Country.
Paid my own flights.
Pay my own rent.
No self benefit whatsoever.
No contact with "charity group" at all.
Never even thought of charging others to pay my way.
Maybe I'm too working class.
Work available to those interested.
PM me.

Norwesterner

decisions wrote: »

In most places you need to raise €500 and half of that goes to the jump and the other to the charity. AFAIK there isn't any amount that you can raise and get the jump free but I could be wrong. As for a significant amount, I'd say something along the lines of €2500 because the jump is only 10% of the money raised.

Because the jump is imperative, of course.

c_man

I always have a laugh at some of the people looking for money heading over to"build a school". Im talking people who have never lifted a hammer in their lives. oh wow, you'll be some asset over there! why exactly couldn't donations go through the charity to employ local people to do it? well then nobody would be getting a holiday...

[Deleted User]

I could never see the sense in bringing Chernobil children to Ireland for a month or so. Is it to show them a lifestyle they can never have? Treat them like little Princes and Princess's, then shove them back to their orphanages? WHY, WHY, WHY? Would it not be better to treat them in the safe areas of their own country, rather than give them a glimpse of Heaven, then snatch it from them again? Imagine how far that money would go in their own country? (Not all of Chernobil was destroyed, there is a huge part of it unaffected) Then again, that wouldn't show their charity organisers in such a glowing light, now, would it?

hardCopy

If people were happy to give their money over to charity without being coerced by friends and family then these trips wouldn't exist. But people don't and charities know that if they recruit a few boosters by offering these trips then they can raise enough money to keep operating. These trips usually have a minimum fundraising target, if you don't bring in enough to make a profit on the cost of your package then you don't fly.

I did one of these trips years ago for Crumlin Children's Hospital and said I'd never do it again, the trip was great but the stress of trying to raise €5,000 in a couple of months was too much.

I have a charity in mind that I'd like to help at some point in the future but there won't be any target I have to hit and I'll be paying all of my own travel and racing expenses myself.

fishy fishy

Deleted User wrote: »

I could never see the sense in bringing Chernobil children to Ireland for a month or so. Is it to show them a lifestyle they can never have? Treat them like little Princes and Princess's, then shove them back to their orphanages? WHY, WHY, WHY? Would it not be better to treat them in the safe areas of their own country, rather than give them a glimpse of Heaven, then snatch it from them again? Imagine how far that money would go in their own country? (Not all of Chernobil was destroyed, there is a huge part of it unaffected) Then again, that wouldn't show their charity organisers in such a glowing light, now, would it?

it's a holiday for their lungs. The air here is very good for them, and they get a holiday too - they also come back to the same people every year for their holiday.

But then again, why would anybody bother wanting a little holiday, never mind a sick kid wanting a holiday. Sure we could all just head to the aran islands and never mind them foreign places.

And while we're at it - lets get rid of the "make a wish" foundation - it would be wasted on those kids.

Theta

A few of my friends did this, what they did however was they fully funded their own trip (flights, food, clothes, place to stay etc.) but they raised money for the kids they are teaching for. Books, learning materials and clothes and stuff. It was very unclear at the start that this is what it was for so maybe the OP's local charity is the same?

[Deleted User]

Seachmall wrote: »

I do, because they do need people to go over.

So what if they get a few days doing the generic touristy crap? Does charity have to be entirely selfless for you to consider it worthwhile enough to donate?

1) Do they really need people to go over? There's nobody living there who could do it? I don't really see much benefit in a different volunteer going there every week.

2)That's the bloody point of charity. Why should I pay for someone else to go sightseeing and have fun? Why can't they pay for it themselves?

I've no skills that anyone would immediately consider valuable in an orphanage but when I went over I spent much of my time doing stuff that doesn't need specialist skills. I cleaned in the mornings, helped with lunch in the afternoon, helped with homework when the older children got back from school and did odd jobs whenever I got the time (painting walls, fixing gates and so on) .

They're small things but when you realise that even at 16 many of them can't multiply 10 by 5, or that the play area gets littered with glass after the weekends, or that the staff don't care enough to change the younger ones' clothes you realise these small things do matter to their day-to-day standards of living.

Even just painting a flower on a wall gets a response that makes it seem far less trivial that what we imagine it is.

I don't think anyone goes over with the idea that they're going to rescue anyone from poverty or disease but regardless of skills or education you will make some difference. Even if it's only in small ways.

EDIT - Essentially my argument boils down to the end justifying the means. Volunteers are needed, even unskilled ones, and I think they should be supported regardless of how selfish or selfless their motives are.

This is all fine if you're funding it yourself. It's basically a holiday, with a bit of volunteering (of questionable necessity) attached. I just can't believe people think it's OK to ask your friends for money to do it. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I even spent some 'charity' funds on myself, and if you use money raised at fundraisers to fund flights/accommodation/sightseeing, that's what you're doing.

I'm a qualified English teacher with fluent Spanish and I've been asked to do some voluntary teacher training in Colombia so that the local teachers can learn new skills and pass them on to their students. I'd actually be useful there and willing to make a long-term commitment and I still wouldn't DREAM of asking other people to fund me. So I don't know where people going over for a week to do a bit of painting or teach a few 'English classes' get off on asking for sponsorship.

Grandpa Hassan

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

1) Do they really need people to go over? There's nobody living there who could do it? I don't really see much benefit in a different volunteer going there every week.

2)That's the bloody point of charity. Why should I pay for someone else to go sightseeing and have fun? Why can't they pay for it themselves?

This is all fine if you're funding it yourself. It's basically a holiday, with a bit of volunteering (of questionable necessity) attached. I just can't believe people think it's OK to ask your friends for money to do it. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I even spent some 'charity' funds on myself, and if you use money raised at fundraisers to fund flights/accommodation/sightseeing, that's what you're doing.

I'm a qualified English teacher with fluent Spanish and I've been asked to do some voluntary teacher training in Colombia so that the local teachers can learn new skills and pass them on to their students. I'd actually be useful there and willing to make a long-term commitment and I still wouldn't DREAM of asking other people to fund me. So I don't know where people going over for a week to do a bit of painting or teach a few 'English classes' get off on asking for sponsorship.

But how else is one to afford one's 'gap yah' when Daddy's property development company is not doing so well?

fishy fishy

people are going to find fault with anything that is being done no matter what benefit comes from it I think. I always find that people so very good at belittling other peoples efforts as being in some way false, or selfish - usually its just a bit of bitterness because they don't have the guts or the inclination to do it themselves. I would always support a friend doing charity work or going abroad to do charity work - why not. Yes they may be only there for a week, a month, but they can do a lot of good in that time - a poor kid getting a hug or even being recognized can go a long way in their sad lives. Who are we to put that down. I hate the "you're doing it wrong, my way is the best way" attitude that irish people have - is it jealousy, is it the "I can't/won't do it, so Im going to make little of you for doing it" or is it just a case of penny pinching. Who knows.

Keep up the good work tho, to those people who actually do good work, not the ones merely talking about "how good they are and how good they could be" but yet do nothing.

Seachmall

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

1) Do they really need people to go over? There's nobody living there who could do it? I don't really see much benefit in a different volunteer going there every week.

There are people who would do it for a wage, sure. People in these regions tend to have their own problems without taking on the issues of others free of charge.

2)That's the bloody point of charity. Why should I pay for someone else to go sightseeing and have fun? Why can't they pay for it themselves?

The point of charity is to assist others, and absolute altruism doesn't exist. Incentives are often needed to encourage people to help out.

It's basically a holiday

What makes it a holiday? Enjoying it?

I just can't believe people think it's OK to ask your friends for money to do it. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I even spent some 'charity' funds on myself, and if you use money raised at fundraisers to fund flights/accommodation/sightseeing, that's what you're doing.

Do people who donate believe 100% of the money is going straight to the project? That none of it will be spent on flights, accommodation or drinks?

Nobody is being conned or deceived out of money. If this thread has taught me anything it's that people seem to have no idea what actually occurs and so take an extremely cynical view.

I still wouldn't DREAM of asking other people to fund me.

Why wouldn't you traveling to help assist teachers abroad be a valid reason to ask for donations?

[Deleted User]

fishy fishy wrote: »

people are going to find fault with anything that is being done no matter what benefit comes from it I think. I always find that people so very good at belittling other peoples efforts as being in some way false, or selfish - usually its just a bit of bitterness because they don't have the guts or the inclination to do it themselves. I would always support a friend doing charity work or going abroad to do charity work - why not. Yes they may be only there for a week, a month, but they can do a lot of good in that time - a poor kid getting a hug or even being recognized can go a long way in their sad lives. Who are we to put that down. I hate the "you're doing it wrong, my way is the best way" attitude that irish people have - is it jealousy, is it the "I can't/won't do it, so Im going to make little of you for doing it" or is it just a case of penny pinching. Who knows.

Keep up the good work tho, to those people who actually do good work, not the ones merely talking about "how good they are and how good they could be" but yet do nothing.

No, you see, that's the voluntourist's favourite argument. "At least I'm doing something to help! You're not doing anything!"

Has it occurred to you that maybe the rest of us do plenty of charity work and don't ask our friends for money, post the 'harrowing' pictures on Facebook afterwards and generally crow about it for months on end?

General General

Photo opp crap mostly. If you fund it yourself like some, fine... & why would you not enjoy touristy stuff then? Looking for sponsorship for it from the public (or even family/friends, emphasizing the charity angle) is b.s.

Sure, it makes a difference... just like the difference some celebrity or exotic character visiting a school in Ireland makes... again, photo ops & something to bring up as something visiting gave back (I just thought it was a great chance to give something back... so I raised a couple of grand off Irish people so I could go out & see for myself what it was like... to see the people, to let them see that we know that they are there... to share experience... to let them see what blowing 2 grand of others money on a junket looks like...)

If you've got zee mad skillz (e.g: Med, Engineering (maybe) &c.) & go for a well organized project or longer period (so percentage of time doing touristy stuff is kept to 10 or 20 %), then cool, I'll root around in mo phoca for ya.

Else, here is my middle finger.

[Deleted User]

Seachmall wrote: »

There are people who would do it for a wage, sure. People in these regions tend to have their own problems without taking on the issues of others free of charge.

Could the money used to send several volunteers not pay a local person's salary to do the same work on a long-term basis?

The point of charity is to assist others, and absolute altruism doesn't exist. Incentives are often needed to encourage people to help out.

Of course. People generally do it because it makes them feel good. That doesn't mean asking your friends for money is OK.

What makes it a holiday? Enjoying it? Do people who donate believe 100% of the money is going straight to the project? That none of it will be spent on flights, accommodation or drinks?

I'd say sightseeing makes it quite a holiday. If you're going to Africa to help people, no, I do not expect to fund your flights, accommodation and drinks. Why can't you pay for it yourself?

Nobody is being conned or deceived out of money. If this thread has taught me anything it's that people seem to have no idea what actually occurs and so take an extremely cynical view.

People often keep very quiet about how much of the money they're asking for is going directly to a good cause. How can you not take a cynical view of someone who goes abroad for 2 weeks with other people's money and uses one of those weeks for a holiday? Seriously?

Why wouldn't you traveling to help assist teachers abroad be a valid reason to ask for donations?

Because it's something I've chosen to do. Why should my friends pay for it? Why shouldn't I?

fishy fishy

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

No, you see, that's the voluntourist's favourite argument. "At least I'm doing something to help! You're not doing anything!"

Has it occurred to you that maybe the rest of us do plenty of charity work and don't ask our friends for money, post the 'harrowing' pictures on Facebook afterwards and generally crow about it for months on end?

Im sure everybody does / donates to charity work in ireland - and if not then they should be ashamed.

However, this is going abroad to help those really in need - when you look at it, no matter how poor a person gets in ireland there is help - there is no help in other countries and people depend on volunteers.

To not help out a friend who wishes to go and do some good in a poor country is the height of selfishness. But I suppose no matter what goodness is in somebody's heart to go and do some good, it will always be knocked or driven out by people who don't understand the bigger picture.

Why would people not help their friends who intend to do some good. I remember going to a third world country and wanted to bring lots of items that were needed - I had no problem whatsoever asking my friends, family, employers and colleagues for donations. They gladly gave it - not one of them was bitter about it. They gave over and above what I asked for. But I supposed I hang out with good friends.

I just get the vibe from this thread that people are so quick to put other people down because they chose to do something good. I say good on the people who get up off their asses to do it and shame on those putting them down.

I wonder has anybody ever heard of Croi - they do a walk every year in Spain/Portugal. You must raise thousands for this through friends, family, sponsorship - any way you can. They have no qualms in telling you this or asking for this. You get to have a fabulous week walking through these sponsorships/donations from friends family and still help out croi. Think of that the next time you or your family needs heart treatment.

desertcircus

I understand that things like this exist because they raise funds effectively, but it still leaves an unpleasant taste in the mouth. If someone is going over to do work that doesn't require specialist skills, it seems both extremely wasteful and shortsighted not to simply raise funds to hire a local to do the work on a permanent basis. I think someone mentioned a figure of three thousand euro - in a lot of countries, that'd be enough to hire someone for a year. Aside from the benefit of the job being done year-round, you'd be providing employment as well. Instead, unemployed locals have to watch wealthy white people come in to do the work instead, and spend a chunk of that money at tourist locations instead of in the village or town.

The other problem I have - and it's a big one - is that sending well-meaning white people to do charity work in largely nonwhite countries strikes me as an extremely unfortunate echo of colonialism at best and unwitting racism at worst. Africans/Indians/people aren't benighted idiots in need of guidance from white visitors, they need help reforming governance and developing indigenous industry, and education most of all. If you really want to help, raise funds for a school.

[Deleted User]

fishy fishy wrote: »

Im sure everybody does / donates to charity work in ireland - and if not then they should be ashamed.

However, this is going abroad to help those really in need - when you look at it, no matter how poor a person gets in ireland there is help - there is no help in other countries and people depend on volunteers.

To not help out a friend who wishes to go and do some good in a poor country is the height of selfishness. But I suppose no matter what goodness is in somebody's heart to go and do some good, it will always be knocked or driven out by people who don't understand the bigger picture.

How on earth do you figure that out? I'd say expecting your friends to fund you for something you could pay for yourself if you made some sacrifices is pretty damn selfish. Your attitude is pretty typical of these types of people though. "Why won't you fund me? You're so scabby!" I have very little money. I don't see why I should pay for your trip when half of it is sightseeing and I don't even agree with the 'cause'.

I do hours of charity work every week which benefits people 'overseas'. I don't ask anyone for money to do it.

Why would people not help their friends who intend to do some good. I remember going to a third world country and wanted to bring lots of items that were needed - I had no problem whatsoever asking my friends, family, employers and colleagues for donations. They gladly gave it - not one of them was bitter about it. They gave over and above what I asked for. But I supposed I hang out with good friends.

I just get the vibe from this thread that people are so quick to put other people down because they chose to do something good. I say good on the people who get up off their asses to do it and shame on those putting them down.

I wonder has anybody ever heard of Croi - they do a walk every year in Spain/Portugal. You must raise thousands for this through friends, family, sponsorship - any way you can. They have no qualms in telling you this or asking for this. You get to have a fabulous week walking through these sponsorships/donations from friends family and still help out croi. Think of that the next time you or your family needs heart treatment.

The way I see it is, if there's more in it for you than there is for the people you're meant to be helping, you can feck off asking for donations.