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Another "Freeman on the Land" Conspiracy Loon gets locked up for contempt of court

Foxhound38

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/bankrupt-businessman-sent-to-mountjoy-for-another-six-months-1.1394553

It seems another one of these Ben Gilroy types has been locked up for acting like a lunatic in Court. Looks like he's not such a Freeman anymore, having been given 6 months in Mountjoy for his trouble. Why do these lads keep doing this pseudo-legal bollixology? Has it EVER gotten any of them off the hook?

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[Deleted User]

See this is the bit where I hear alarm bells. BG, DDI and yourself use the media, social networking sites and forums, YET none of you discuss with each other the one topic of conversation that always comes up for discussion by the rest of the country?

Why?

oppenheimer1

Biggins wrote: »

Ben has spoken many times about his political views.
In person and to the media.
Not once has Freeman stuff come up.
Now unless we all go "Jack Bauer" on his ass, what more can anyone do?
Hold him down and water-torture him?

Thanks but no.

Well you could ask him what the hell is that sign on his front door about? Because it looks and smells and quacks an awful lot like freemanry. You could get him to explain his presence in court for people who use freeman tactics to get themselves jailed. These questions on background are normal for a leader of a political party.

You don't need to torture anyone, just ask him to explain. If he can give a rational answer for it then all will be fine, but if he can't, I would suggest a new leader for DDI.

Biggins

benway wrote: »

...I know DDI is off topic, but from what I can see, there's a hotchpotch of hard Catholic right Christian Solidarity cast-offs and shysters like Ben at the heart of the party - I'd advise anyone who's serious about promoting Direct Democracy to dissociate themselves and start fresh - it's not a bad idea and deserves consideration.

In summary, then, Ben deploys all kinds of Fremen tactics, alongside waffle about the constitution and other woo. Like a lot of things, he's happy enough to associate with them and have them promote him on their websites, but will deny them to the hilt when he knows he's talking to people who know better. As for OP, I'm not sure that Gilroy & Co. were involved, but I intend to find out....

You see this is where the wacky stuff tries to be spouted.
...and the response is simple:

1. Please point out ANYONE in DDI that is connected to the Christian Solidarity nutter organisation!
Evidence please! Name the names...

2. Ben knows the law - VERY well, so he spouting the law seems to now make him a freeman? I guess a lot of us, including from FG, FF Labour, SF and DDI are all freemen too because we too often quote sections of law and constitution!
I'm a freeman? News to me!

3. So he talks to them?
So WHAT!!!
If he likes some of their ideas - whoop-de-do!
Nothing he might like outside of DDI is interfering with DDI - what part of that do you not get or comprehend?
If he thinks at that his wallpaper should be yellow instead of black - should I be worried about that too?
What he thinks on his own property is his own business and sure as hell is none of mine!

oppenheimer1

Biggins wrote: »

See above also.

On the topic, he has NEVER admitted to me, to being one.
I have no reason to come out and call him a liar.

He wouldn't be a liar if you never asked him?

Have you asked him if he was/is a freeman. An if not then why not?

Biggins

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

...if he can't, I would suggest a new leader for DDI.

He is not the sole leader of DDI.
He is one representative.

oppenheimer1

Biggins wrote: »

You see this is where the wacky stuff tries to be spouted.
...and the response is simple:

1. Please point out ANYONE in DDI that is connected to the Christian Solidarity nutter organisation!
Evidence please! Name the names...

2. Ben knows the law - VERY well, so he spouting the law seems to now make him a freeman? I guess a lot of us, including from FG, FF Labour, SF and DDI are all freemen too because we too often quote sections of law and constitution!
I'm a freeman? News to me!

3. So he talks to them?
So WHAT!!!
If he likes some of their ideas - whoop-de-do!
Nothing he might like outside of DDI is interfering with DDI - what part of that do you not get or comprehend?
If he thinks at that his wallpaper should be yellow instead of black - should I be worried about that too?
What he thinks on his own property is his own business and sure as hell is none of mine!

Ben doesn't know the law if he believes the notice on his door will deter any State official from doing their job.

You're not actually debating the points being put to you Biggins. You're deliberately obfuscating. I think you know you've lost the argument.

Biggins

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

He wouldn't be a liar if you never asked him?

Have you asked him if he was/is a freeman. An if not then why not?

Any talks I have had with Ben are private as most talk between friends and I'm not going to reproduce his words here without his express permission first.

I can say that never once has he admitted to being involved in any Freeman group, never spouted any of that stuff at me or others.
Now besides getting aggressive for some mental reason just to be nosey, I have no reason to interrogate him.

Its none of my damn business.

IF the man thinks that way - he does so at home!

dartup

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

[Deleted User]

You still evaded the question. Have you at any stage asked BG directly if he is a freemen? Yes or No will suffice.

oppenheimer1

Biggins wrote: »

Any talks I have had with Ben are private as most talk between friends and I'm not going to reproduce his words here without his express permission first.

I can say that never once has he admitted to being involved in any Freeman group, never spouted any of that stuff at me or others.
Now besides getting aggressive, I have no reason to interrogate him.

Its none of my damn business.

IF the man thinks that way - he does so at home!

Usual Biggins tactic of "Oh I could say but I won't". The act has gotten tiresome over the years.

Fair enough, if you're willing to live in ignorance and have the wool pulled over your eyes well then thats your prerogative. All I'll say is don't expect to be taken seriously politically anymore.

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

You still evaded the question. Have you at any stage asked BG directly if he is a freemen? Yes or No will suffice.

If you could answer the question please.

Biggins

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Ben doesn't know the law if he believes the notice on his door will deter any State official from doing their job.

You're not actually debating the points being put to you Biggins. You're deliberately obfuscating. I think you know you've lost the argument.

Rubbish!
So what if Ben thinks he knows the law!
Its his right to be wrong.
Its every persons human right in this country to be wrong - if they want to be on purpose or by lack of further knowledge.

I'm defending his right to privacy - sorry if that gets up your nose!
He don't shove any 'unusual' ideas down my throat - why the crap should I shove my interrogating questions down his about what he might be thinking in his own home!

Jeasus! Some people are just fcuking unreal and obnoxious!

Biggins

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

You still evaded the question. Have you at any stage asked BG directly if he is a freemen? Yes or No will suffice.

Yes - and so far he has NOT stated to being one.
That clear enough?

benway

Biggins wrote: »

1. Please point out ANYONE in DDI that is connected to the Christian Solidarity nutter organisation!
Evidence please! Name the names...

Richard Greene of Christian Solidarity took out this ad in Alive magazine supporting Ben for Meath East: http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2013/04/12/ad-from-the-christian-solidarity-party-urging-voters-in-meath-east-to-vote-for-ben-gilroy-of-direct-democracy-ireland/

Also, Jane Murphy of Christian Solidarity had DDI's previous url, which still redirects to their site, on her literature for the 2011 locals: http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/03/12/jane-murphy-christian-solidarity-party-direct-democracy-ireland-dublin-south-2011-ge/

Biggins wrote: »

2. Ben knows the law - VERY well, so he spouting the law seems to now make him a freeman? I guess a lot of us, including from FG, FF Labour, SF and DDI are all freemen too because we too often quote sections of law and constitution!
I'm a freeman? News to me!

No, he doesn't. He hasn't the first fcking clue. He runs all the Freeman tricks - consent, statute law, oaths, legal/lawful, yadda, yadda - in the High Court, and gets nowhere. He invokes the constitution without showing any idea of what it's been interpreted by the Supreme Court as meaning, or how the system works. And gets nowhere. I've seen it a few times now, the Burns case is just the last example.

Simple way of looking at this, when has Ben or anyone advised by him actually won a case, if he's such an incisive legal mind?

Biggins wrote: »

3. So he talks to them?
So WHAT!!!
If he likes some of their ideas - whoop-de-do!
Nothing he might like outside of DDI is interfering with DDI - what part of that do you not get or comprehend?
If he thinks at that his wallpaper should be yellow instead of black - should I be worried about that too?
What he thinks on his own property is his own business and sure as hell is none of mine!

Indeed, but I wouldn't vote for him.

Seriously, you come across as pretty sincere and decent, are you really sure that Ben deserves your loyalty?

[Deleted User]

Biggins wrote: »

Yes - and so far he has NOT stated to being one.
That clear enough?

Crystal

oppenheimer1

Biggins wrote: »

Rubbish!
So what if Ben thinks he knows the law!
Its his right to be wrong.
Its every persons human right in this country to be wrong - if they want to be on purpose or by lack of further knowledge.

I'm defending his right to privacy - sorry if that gets up your nose!
He don't shove any 'unusual' ideas down my throat - why the crap should I shove my interrogating questions down his about what he might be thinking in his own home!

Jeasus! Some people are just fcuking unreal and obnoxious!

You said originally that he knows the law very well, not that he thinks he knows the law.

What do you think of that notice on the door? Do you think it has any legal standing?

KyussBishop

I appreciate you know the guy personally, and thus have a certain amount of trust in him, but the accusation of freeman stuff is so unusual, I Googled around a bit, and from what I can tell this site/group is both founded and directly supported by Ben, and it has this post advising freeman stuff as a little legal 'trick' (with the image someone posted earlier):
https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/removal-of-implied-right-of-access/

Unless there's a good explanation, possibly of why that site may not be associated with him or such (seems pretty solidly clear that it is though), the claim that he is into the freeman stuff does seem to hold water.

Jimoslimos

Biggins wrote: »

Ben has spoken many times about his political views.
In person and to the media.
Not once has Freeman stuff come up.
Now unless we all go "Jack Bauer" on his ass, what more can anyone do?
Hold him down and water-torture him?

Thanks but no.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Silly signs and posturing in court points to freemanry.

As an aside I don't have much time for this DDI nonsense either. Dressed-up mob rule.

Biggins

benway wrote: »

Richard Greene of Christian Solidarity took out this ad in Alive magazine supporting Ben for Meath East: [url][/url]

Also, Jane Murphy of Christian Solidarity had DDI's previous url, which still redirects to their site, on her literature for the 2011 locals: [url][/url]

*sigh*

1.

Its actually very sad that people (very few - the rest have seen sense) are spouting this crap!

The wacko that is Richard Greene has NOTHING to do with Direct Democracy Ireland.
NOTHING!!!
Please show where Richard Greene is connected to DDI.

If wacko Richard Greene says he supports you, me or who ever the hell - that does NOT make them a member of DDI or does not even show that Ben even is aware of the man!

Does it? NO!

...but whats truth got to do with your attempted stupid fiction!

Please show where Richard Greene is connected to DDI.

2.

Jane Murphy of Christian Solidarity DID HAVE DDI's previous url.

The Christian Solidarity Party relinquished the URL back to the URL provider and DDI a long time later took up the option to purchase it as it was available.
What your problem with this?

Please show where this Jane Murphy is connected to DDI.
ANY GENUINE EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER!

benway

KyussBishop wrote: »

I appreciate you know the guy personally, and thus have a certain amount of trust in him, but the accusation of freeman stuff is so unusual, I Googled around a bit, and from what I can tell this site/group is both founded and directly supported by Ben, and it has this post advising freeman stuff as a little legal 'trick' (with the image someone posted earlier):
https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/removal-of-implied-right-of-access/

Unless there's a good explanation, possibly of why that site may not be associated with him or such (seems pretty solidly clear that it is though), the claim that he is into the freeman stuff does seem to hold water.

Pretty much all of the Gilroy & Co. "legal" techniques on that site and youtube bear the Mark of Woo.

He also offers his services as an advisor on there, apparently charging €400 a pop, or so I'm told: https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/e25000-solicitor-or-20c-ben-gilroy/

The Mind of Ben Gilroy™ :rolleyes:

Biggins

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Silly signs and posturing in court points to freemanry.

As an aside I don't have much time for this DDI nonsense either. Dressed-up mob rule.

Yea, its worked so badly for the Swiss economy! :rolleyes:

MadsL

Any chance Ben might engage on this site? Just a thought.

Biggins

benway wrote: »

Pretty much all of the Gilroy & Co. "legal" techniques on that site and youtube bear the Mark of Woo.

He also offers his services as an advisor on there, apparently charging €400 a pop, or so I'm told: [url][/url]

The Mind of Ben Gilroy™ :rolleyes:

More lies!

Please show ANY charges Ben has made charging €400.
I shall be notifying him in the morning about these allegations - I'm sure the law will be used to refute them.
don't be surprised if you hear from his legal team.
All the best.

MadsL

Biggins wrote: »

Yea, its worked so badly for the Swiss economy! :rolleyes:

and so well for the Californian one.

Biggins

MadsL wrote: »

and so well for the Californian one.

LOL

You don't know the difference between the Swiss version of DD and the USA twisted one in America?

I guess not!

Thats down to lack of education then!

oppenheimer1

Biggins wrote: »

[...]don't be surprised if you hear from his legal team.
All the best.

Well given his success rate in the high court I don't think anyone has anything to worry about...

benway

Biggins wrote: »

Please show where Richard Greene is connected to DDI.

He took out an ad supporting Ben Gilroy for Meath East.

Biggins wrote: »

Please show where this Jane Murphy is connected to DDI.
ANY GENUINE EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER!

She had DDI's url on her election materials.

Btw, Raymond Whitehead was also running in the same elections under the Direct Democracy Ireland banner, but I didn't hear of any wrangle or litigation over Christian Solidarity appropriating the url, which you'd expect if there was no connection.

Those are two pieces of genuine evidence, whether you like to admit it or not. Where does DDI stand on abortion, btw?

Biggins

benway wrote: »

He took out an ad supporting Ben Gilroy for Meath East.

So what?

That don't prove Ben knows the wacko!
And its sure proves bugger all that the wacko is connected to DDI!

Biggins

benway wrote: »

She had DDI's url on her election materials.

She did - THEN relinquished the URL COMPLETELY to an independent company that leased it to her - what do you not understand about this?

Biggins

benway wrote: »

Btw, Raymond Whitehead was also running in the same elections under the Direct Democracy Ireland banner, but I didn't hear of any wrangle or litigation over Christian Solidarity appropriating the url, which you'd expect if there was no connection.

Those are two pieces of genuine evidence, whether you like to admit it or not. Where does DDI stand on abortion, btw?

Your absolutely talking about stuff on what you have not got a clue!
Pure stupidity.

Biggins

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Well given his success rate in the high court I don't think anyone has anything to worry about...

Actually if you bother to check tomorrow - you will find he's been very successful.
...But your not going to take my word for it - so don't be lazy and do your own checking!