Why do people still have expensive weddings?

oldyouth wrote: »

There's a saying around these parts, "When you're in a hole, stop digging"

What hole exactly am I digging? Within the family was referring to my immediate family i.e. my parents and sisters. I would trust my sisters to 100% to not disclose private affairs outside of the home, however I would not even discuss most things when them hence the "maybe sometimes" statement.

I'm being made out to be all sorts because I think cash is an ideal gift and its nothing to be ashamed of to give it or receive it. Yet some of the posters who think they are too good for cash and would go as far as to turn it down obviously can't trust even their immediate family how could they when they find it so hard to believe that people don't go around disclosing private matters.

I would certainly not swap any of the gifts I've received in the past for anything the anti-cash brigade have put forward, nor will I stop giving it as a present or be "embarrassed :rolleyes:" to receive it for a present.

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

What hole exactly am I digging? Within the family was referring to my immediate family i.e. my parents and sisters. I would trust my sisters to 100% to not disclose private affairs outside of the home, however I would not even discuss most things when them hence the "maybe sometimes" statement.

I'm being made out to be all sorts because I think cash is an ideal gift and its nothing to be ashamed of to give it or receive it. Yet some of the posters who think they are too good for cash and would go as far as to turn it down obviously can't trust even their immediate family how could they when they find it so hard to believe that people don't go around disclosing private matters.

I don't think you are listening to what is being said. It has nothing to do with cash per se, it is your attitude towards it. You expect cash/presents even though you are a grown adult, there appears to be a minimum level that you deem acceptable and if anyone falls below that you will a) tell all and sundry within your circle or b) bear a grudge and reek revenge.

If you are in the fortunate position of having generous and affluent friends and family, please take that and appreciate it for what it is. However, if others have different circumstances or (more importantly) have different concepts as to what is an appropriate gift, then that should be accepted without question. Never, EVER, should it be the subject of gossip at the next available coffee morning by a group of Stepford Wives

oldyouth wrote: »

I don't think you are listening to what is being said. It has nothing to do with cash per se, it is your attitude towards it. You expect cash/presents even though you are a grown adult, there appears to be a minimum level that you deem acceptable and if anyone falls below that you will a) tell all and sundry within your circle or b) bear a grudge and reek revenge.

If you are in the fortunate position of having generous and affluent friends and family, please take that and appreciate it for what it is. However, if others have different circumstances or (more importantly) have different concepts as to what is an appropriate gift, then that should be accepted without question. Never, EVER, should it be the subject of gossip at the next available coffee morning by a group of Stepford Wives

Exactly. It's not the cash (which I have no problem with in itself), it's the attitude towards it.

Addle

Greentopia wrote: »

Likewise. Also-some of the wealthiest people I know have often also had small or quirky/charming/ not run of the mill weddings. They realise perhaps the limitations of money and what money doesn't buy-class or good taste.

Probably because they don't require their guests to pay for the 'big' day.

Addle

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

Well in Galway and Mayo which are the places I've attended all the 21st I've been to things work the way I described.

A lot (including my own) involved booking the function room in the local hotel, booking a DJ and having finger food followed by a big house party back at the house. Other 21st's involved booking out sections of pubs etc rather than the hotel. I've been at 21st's where the function room was packed in the hotel and in all the 21st I've been too which is a lot between close friends, neigbours, friends of my sisters friends etc cards were handed to the person and I can guarantee you there was money inside them as its the done thing.

So in my opinion due to the sheer number of 21st's that have happened in the way I describe (many I was invited to and didn't go and ones I just say taking place on top of the ones I attended) I would have to say it is a tradition.

All it takes is for one to have a big do and then all the sheep will follow suit.

awec

Cienciano wrote: »

A thoughtful present is great. But in the real world, if you have about 40 couples and 20 single people going to a wedding with 100 people at it, you won't get 60 thoughtful useful presents. Easier to just ask for cash. A wedding list is pretty much cash. No thought for the person buying, but they have to go out and buy it.
Homemade stuff can be the worst. My mate is a painter and did this horrible picture of a clown crying for him. It's big, A1 size. The worst thing about it, is they have to hang it up even though they don't like it because the guy who gave it calls over regularly. They hung it with pride in the jacks!
IMHO, give whatever the couple ask for. If you can't afford anything, tell them. If you're afraid they'll think you're a cheapskate, it's only 1 of 2 things. Either the couple are arseholes, or you're paranoid! Any couple that invites someone to a wedding and call you cheap cos you didn't give enough aren't worth a second thought.

A wedding list isn't cash really. People like to know that the gift they're giving is useful and has a sense of longevity about it, rather than just cash which could be spent on a bottle of wine.

Wedding lists are practical. If they are set up correctly, so that there are loads of presents listed at a range of prices then there should be something to suit everyone's taste and budget. Selecting more on your list doesn't mean you expect to receive everything, it just gives your guests more options.

And as I said before, it prevents you receiving multiples of the same thing. If you receive 3 dinner sets then 2 of your guests have wasted their money. How many couples are actually going to go to their guests and get the receipts for all the duplicate and unneeded items so they can be returned. How many couples would actually feel comfortable doing this? I'm sure plenty would be afraid of giving the impression of being unappreciative, i.e. "someone else bought us a dinner set and theirs was nicer and better".

I think there is a perception that a wedding list is asking for gifts, I personally don't think it is. I believe it's more of a "if you are going to buy us a gift, please consider purchasing something off our wedding list as this is what is most useful to us and what we really need".

oldyouth wrote: »

I don't think you are listening to what is being said. It has nothing to do with cash per se, it is your attitude towards it. You expect cash/presents even though you are a grown adult, there appears to be a minimum level that you deem acceptable and if anyone falls below that you will a) tell all and sundry within your circle or b) bear a grudge and reek revenge.

If you are in the fortunate position of having generous and affluent friends and family, please take that and appreciate it for what it is. However, if others have different circumstances or (]more importantly) have different concepts as to what is an appropriate gift[/B], then that should be ]accepted without question]. Never, EVER, should it be the subject of gossip at the next available coffee morning by a group of Stepford Wives

For a start the only thing I actually said I expected presents for from anyone outside my immediate family were my 21st and if I ever get married. How expecting presents at either of them is anything out if the ordinary I don't understand as I've never ever come across a person who didn't get presents at both.

As it has always been the done thing to exchange presents in my family at birthdays, Christmas and grads etc again I don't see how I'm doing anything wrong here by expecting to get something. I never said anything about an acceptable level of gift in this situation, though we always try to give a gift which is useful to the other person so it may be money or a gift but I am happy with what ever I get and would never feel aggrieved.

The only situations where I actualy hinted at acceptable level were 21st's and weddings. I said 21 euro for a 21st as that's the traditional gift and never came across anyone saying otherwise before this thread and I said a decent figure at a wedding, I didnt actually say a number as that would depend on many factors like how close the person is to you etc, however I don't see the value in giving gifts other than cash which was what my main point was.

I have no problem with people who cannot afford to give much/anything however as far as the bit in bold is concerned for a person who can afford to give I believe this "different concept of an appropriate gift" is just a cover for being a bit stingy.

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

The only situations where I actualy hinted at acceptable level were 21st's and weddings. I said 21 euro for a 21st as that's the traditional gift and never came across anyone saying otherwise before this thread and I said a decent figure at a wedding, I didnt actually say a number as that would depend on many factors like how close the person is to you etc, however I don't see the value in giving gifts other than cash which was what my main point was.

I don't know a single person who did this '21 euro' thing. I hate the idea of it - a lot of people that age would have trouble coughing up that much cash. I know I would have and I probably would have had to skip the party if I thought cash was expected.

I have no problem with people who cannot afford to give much/anything however as far as the but in bold is concerned for a person who can afford to give I believe this "different concept of an appropriate gift" is just a cover for being a bit stingy.

It's not for you to decide who can and can't afford a certain amount. You have no idea what financial situation other people are in.

I give up

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

I don't know a single person who did this '21 euro' thing. I hate the idea of it - a lot of people that age would have trouble coughing up that much cash. I know I would have and I probably would have had to skip the party if I thought cash was expected.
.

Personally I like the whole 21 euro thing, it's a nice touch and as its a big birthday it's nice to come out if it with a bit of money. In fairness this was back in boom times and most people had fairly well paying part-time and summer jobs so 21 euro was never a big deal. It may well be different now for peope of that age who can't get part time work etc.

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

The only situations where I actualy hinted at acceptable level were 21st's and weddings. I said 21 euro for a 21st as that's the traditional gift

Not traditional at my 21st, nor at some of my friends 21st. I never heard of giving €21 before and it's certainly not something I would have expected from friends or family at my own 21st.

I had a lovely party at home with drinks and food laid on for friends and family (Mum paid for half, I paid for the rest) and never expected any such monetary gifts.

It would've been like asking for an entrance fee to the party-in poor taste. My Mum bought me a (not extravagant) gift and my friends bought me a few drinks and that was that.

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

I have no problem with people who cannot afford to give much/anything however as far as the bit in bold is concerned for a person who can afford to give I believe this "different concept of an appropriate gift" is just a cover for being a bit stingy.

And you know what people can and can't afford how exactly? are you privvy to their bank accounts?

rainbowtrout

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

Personally I like the whole 21 euro thing, it's a nice touch and as its a big birthday it's nice to come out if it with a bit of money. In fairness this was back in boom times and most people had fairly well paying part-time and summer jobs so 21 euro was never a big deal. It may well be different now for peope of that age who can't get part time work etc.

But you seem to expect that you should come out of it with money just because it's your 21st????

Why???? Again that seems like a sense of entitlement to me and from your point of view looks like you saw it as a money making opportunity which I find a bit weird.

I got a few cash gifts from a couple of aunts and uncles for my 21st (€20 or so I'd imagine) and probably got €50 from my parents but from my college friends they chipped in for a silver picture frame which I have a photo of the five of us. Still have it. That was pretty much it really. Went out for a few drinks, my mother did a bit of food for my friends in the house beforehand. I wouldn't have expected €21 from any of my friends at all. I didn't see it as a time when I would come out of it with a bit of money.

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

Personally I like the whole 21 euro thing, it's a nice touch

Soft touch more like.

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

and as its a big birthday it's nice to come out if it with a bit of money.

Even though the whole idea of a birthday celebration with friends and family should not have anything to do with money or the expectation of it. Nice indeed. :rolleyes:

rainbowtrout

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

I have no problem with people who cannot afford to give much/anything however as far as the bit in bold is concerned for a person who can afford to give I believe this "different concept of an appropriate gift" is just a cover for being a bit stingy.

But that is a sense of entitlement on your part. If Mary is on the dole there is no obligation on her to give you a gift because money is tight, but if John is on 80k a year there is an obligation on him to give you a decent gift because in your eyes he can afford it. Leaving aside any knowledge of his financial situation, why do you feel more entitled to a gift from him just because you believe he is better able to afford it?

People are not obliged to give gifts which reflect their earnings.

It would strike me that you would open a gift and rather than be happy with what you got, you would size it up and your appreciation of it would be measured by what you perceived the person should give you based on their financial standing.

Zoundz

My question has to be *why* is a 21st a big birthday?!

Really?! Congratulations on not dying before that age?! I've never understood 'big' birthdays though... seems silly to me. No-one gets major gifts from me on so called 'big' birthdays - I can't afford them, and I don't get the point. Close family get the usual well thought out gift that I know they will love and treasure.

xx

With regard to 21st birthdays, my son is having a party at our house at the end of the month. Like his brother's one before him, we will supply a big batch of food for his friends, I'll get in a decent supply of beer (no shorts) and our house will be thrown open for 24 hours to all his friends. The best craic is the day after, cooking the rasher sandwiches and watching zombies emerge from various corners of the house.

None of my son's friends will be expected to bring a present of any sort (students mostly) because that is not the done thing with that age group. The venue is expected, any food/beer will be an appreciated bonus and the offer of a hot shower and towel in the morning will result in me being offered their first born in exchange.

Music, bull****, copping off, stories, laughter and friendship will be the order of the day, not the end of evening financial report.

otto_26

All I know is the type of woman I will marry will say to me; "look instead of spending 30000 on our wedding day lets spend 10000 and spend 20000 on the best honeymoon ever". I will just look into her eyes and say BABY I LOVE YOU!!!

(While thinking in my head, thank god I'm not marrying one of those women who wants HER special big day!!)

April O Neill

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

The English are known to be stingy though when it comes to this sort of thing though. I remember a friend who got married a few years ago telling me she had friends back from England. Very well off bankers etc and some gave 30 and 40 pounds as gifts while lots of normal people from Ireland with no big incomes were giving 200 or 300 euro.

Bitching about the gifts she received? Classy.

Greentopia wrote: »

It would've been like asking for an entrance fee to the party-in poor taste.

I never saw anyone asking for anything its just the done thing. I'm not talking about a small group of friends either. my friends are spread out over a fair bit of two counties and all would have had the same idea for a 21st so I'm not taking about tradition from a small area or anything. I never felt like I was paying an entrance fee when I was giving my friends there 21st cars and present and I must have had about 12 21st's to attend in the space of a year at one stage.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

But you seem to expect that you should come out of it with money just because it's your 21st????
Why???.

Who doesn't expect present for their birthday? Presents are often money hence you would expect money. You make it sound like I created the whole thing. This is how things were done before I was anywere near 21 and things haven't changed since I turned 21 either.

Greentopia wrote: »

Even though the whole idea of a birthday celebration with friends and family should not have anything to do with money or the expectation of it. Nice indeed. :rolleyes:

See above, who doesn't expect presents for their birthday, obviously for you money isn't a popular gift but from my experience its is one of the main gifts I have received for any occasion where a present was being given.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It would strike me that you would open a gift and rather than be happy with what you got, you would size it up and your appreciation of it would be measured by what you perceived the person should give you based on their financial standing.

You would be very wrong if you think the above. I have never done anything like this.

Zoundz wrote: »

My question has to be *why* is a 21st a big birthday?! Really?! Congratulations on not dying before that age?! I've never understood 'big' birthdays though... seems silly to me. No-one gets major gifts from me on so called 'big' birthdays - I can't afford them, and I don't get the point. Close family get the usual well thought out gift that I know they will love and treasure.

xx

Everyone around me makes a big deal out of 21st's. 30th's, 40th's and 60th's also result in big partys but none on the scale of a 21st. I think it originates from a time when people only became an adult at 21. But the tradition of it being a big celebration has obviously lived on longer in some places than others.

April O Neill wrote: »

Bitching about the gifts she received? Classy.

Indeed. And it's only a measure of how reckless, dysfunctional and entitled people like her friend is with money that £30/£40 (€35/47) is considered stingy as a wedding gift and €200/€300 from people on normal incomes seems perfectly reasonable.

Nothing to do with English stingyness, which in my experience and dealings with them and having English friends I've never found to be the case anyway.

Greentopia wrote: »

Indeed. And it's only a measure of how reckless, dysfunctional and entitled people like her friend is with money that £30/£40 (€35/47) is considered stingy as a wedding gift and €200/€300 from people on normal incomes seems perfectly reasonable.

Nothing to do with English stingyness, which in my experience and dealings with them and having English friends I've never found to be the case anyway.

I'm a he not a her

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

I'm a he not a her

Don't know how many posts I am in to this thread and I was not expecting that :eek:

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

I never saw anyone asking for anything its just the done thing.

And as I pointed out previously it's only the 'done thing' since people lost the run of themselves in the boom and has nothing to do with long standing tradition.

It only entrenches the culture of perceived monetary obligation attached to big social events like that and places additional financial pressure on people if they think they're obliged to give money if they get invited to a 21st for example.
Not everyone will be ok with giving €21 or will even have that kind of money if they're a student or unemployed. It's unfair to expect it.

And they don't need to 'ask for anything' if it's become an unstated given to gift money on such occasions. Such is the power of pressure to conform to social norms.
As someone else already noted in a reply to you: people are sheep. They follow what others do.

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

I'm a he not a her

Bloody hell...I'm taken aback now I'll admit :pac:

oldyouth wrote: »

Don't know how many posts I am in to this thread and I was not expecting that :eek:

You and me both!

oldyouth wrote: »

Don't know how many posts I am in to this thread and I was not expecting that :eek:

Greentopia wrote: »

Bloody hell...I'm taken aback now I'll admit :pac:

How so out of interest? I wouldn't have thought my posts pointed at me being either male of female to be honest.

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

How so out of interest? I wouldn't have thought my posts pointed at me being either male of female to be honest.

I just thought going on your posts here that you were female. No offence intended, I'm female myself. My mistake in assuming wrong.