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Season 3: Episode 7 * Have NOT read the books MOD NOTE Post#1

Lovely Bloke

This is the thread if you have NOT read the books

No book talk!

MOD NOTE:No book discussion whatsoever please, spoilers even slight or even hinted at will not be tolerated

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KerranJast

MadYaker wrote: »

IDany's righteousness is going to be her downfall. That guy offered her gold and ships to get to westeros for nothing and she threw it back in his face. She isn't going to take that city with 8000 soilders and no seige equipment.

My impression of that was she was being pretty smart. Unless that guy is going to kill the slaves he brought with him, then word is going to spread in Yunkai that the Mother of Dragons is offering to free the slaves. She just need to wait it out :cool:

Degag

Penn wrote: »

As for this episode, Jamie has passed Tyrion as my favourite Lannister. He's been absolutely stellar this season.

Have to agree in many ways. That scene in the end tonight was fantastic IMO. I thought he was going the toss the fella who cut off his hand into the bearpit though.

Burt Macklin

I think part of the problem with this episode is that it touched on too many plot threads, and barely advanced any of them. I think of the current main cast, only Cersei failed to make an appearance, and we could have done with going a week without seeing Theon getting mutilated.

On the topic of favourite Lannister though, I'm leaning more and more towards Tywin. Anyone else wish that he'd given Joffrey a good smack in that scene?

Professional Griefer

Dragons looked class.

Thought it was a good episode.

Rosy Posy

Mickeroo wrote: »

That was shown at the start of the season. Robb et al. marched on Harrenhall expecting to face the Mountain and his forces only to find it deserted with all the northern prisoners slaughtered.

EDIT: Yeah what Penn said.

OK, so I totally misinterpreted that scene at the time- I thought that that was Winterfell...and I'm normally pretty on to it...I must have dropped a stitch in my knitting

Rosy Posy

NiallMH93 wrote: »

On the topic of favourite Lannister though, I'm leaning more and more towards Tywin. Anyone else wish that he'd given Joffrey a good smack in that scene?

Definitely a lost opportunity for a Joffery clattering! Although it was nice to see Tywin control him subtly so that Joffery couldn't lose the rag. Get your fix of Joffery baiting below

pixelburp

NiallMH93 wrote: »

On the topic of favourite Lannister though, I'm leaning more and more towards Tywin. Anyone else wish that he'd given Joffrey a good smack in that scene?

I think it's Dance selling the part more than the character himself - Tywin isn't remotely likable when you think about it & how he has behaved to people is pretty loathsome. The throne-room scene did make me wonder if Tywin knows or suspects of Joffrey's possible origin. We know he's aware of Jamie & Cersei's affair, but I can't recall any conversation that might have tipped a hat to Tywin knowing. You'd imagine he might, the man is fiendishly intelligent

jArgHA

pixelburp wrote: »

I think it's Dance selling the part more than the character himself - Tywin isn't remotely likable when you think about it & how he has behaved to people is pretty loathsome. The throne-room scene did make me wonder if Tywin knows or suspects of Joffrey's possible origin. We know he's aware of Jamie & Cersei's affair, but I can't recall any conversation that might have tipped a hat to Tywin knowing. You'd imagine he might, the man is fiendishly intelligent

It is a well known rumour - Oleanna Tyrell made reference to it in the previous episode when she met Tywin in his office (he took great offense at her suggestion of it).

golfball37

The last 4 episodes have dragged for me, last night was the nadir I hope.

Penn

pixelburp wrote: »

Tywin isn't remotely likable when you think about it & how he has behaved to people is pretty loathsome.

I disagree. His scenes last season with Arya showed him to be a very likable character despite being ruthless at the same time. Is he really doing anything more ruthless or loathsome that many other "good" characters haven't done too? He stopped his own people from torturing prisoners and instead put them to work. He's fighting in a war with Robb where Robb is the aggressor, not Tywin. He's trying to marry off Tyrion and Cersei which isn't as bad as Tyrion marrying off Cersei's daughter last season (Tyrion being an uncle to who he was marrying off rather than Tywin being their father).

Apart from the stuff with Tyrion's previous wife, I don't think he's really done anything that bad, unless there's stuff that I'm simply forgetting about which was talked about rather than seen on-screen.

KerranJast

There were a few scenes that dragged alright which is weird when they have so much to try and fit in. That scene of the Yunkai ambassador arriving was particularly dragged out.
We get it lads. The Unsullied are impressive. We've know that since Episode 5 though.

squonk

I felt there was too much going on myself. I'd have rathered they structured 2 episodes with half the plotlines from last night in one, and a second with the rest. They could have devoted more time to each and given us something to bite into.

Robb & Tulisa, yeah, she's up the pole... big woop! Did it really need 5 minutes of 'little robb' storming her fortress for that revelation? I didn't get the conversation they had about being delayed getting to Frey's for the wedding. What's delaying them now? Robb is always feckin delayed by the looks of it. I'd like to see him doing something besides Tulisa for a change.

Ah poor Theon. I'd say there wasn't a man watching that wasn't traumatised after that scene. I too would like to know who's torturing him at this point and why. I think I've built up enough sympathy for the guy at this stage. The torture is becoming increasingly cruel and pointless at this stage. That storyline needs to progress.

Jamie & Briene was the standout story development this week. Jamie really has gone up in my estimation to the point where I'm now rooting for him every week. I really like Briene as well. She's noble and decent. It's nice to see some positive characters!

Joffrey being manipulated by Tywin was fantastic. Charles Dance is just such a fine actor. I start out each episode just waiting for him to get screen time and I'm never disappointed. I was quite surprised by that scene. Much as I dislike Joffrey, he does seem to be on the ball about the dragons and Danne. They should be getting worried and they should know more than they do. Tywin's dismissal of the entire thing didn't ring true and it's not the first time he's done that. I would have at least expected somebody from a ship approaching Tywin or a Lannister in general to sell the information on how Danne is getting on. I'm sure they'd find the information most useful, and valuable.

As for Danne, I'm starting to think of her as Abraham Lincoln: Dragon Mother. I really wish they'd progressed that storyline a little further. I wonder if it's a bluff on the part of the Yunkai ambassador regarding the powerful friends. I can't possibly think who it would be really, unless there's something else or some other group we've yet to meet. As if there wasn't enough people to keep track of already!

I found Jon & Ygritte boring this week. Summed up as "You know nothing Jon Snow", "Neither do you Ygritte, look there's a windmill and if you think that's impressive, wait til you see Winterfell. You'll all die by the way". Could have done without seeing them this week. We knew he was going to have words with McKenzie Crook. They could have left it at that.

The funniest piece was the "Lovers Guide: The Wildling Edition" with the guy giving instructions on shagging properly! Melissandre and Gendry was a great scene. I'd put the actress playing Melissandre up there with Charles Dance. She steals all her scenes and is wonderfully charismatic and disturbing.

I'm hoping for things to pick up a bit from here on in. We can't have a season where Robb virtually goes nowhere, Theon just ends up still being tortured, Danne still hasn't gotten on a boat or Jaime hasn't gotten back to Kings Landing. I want to see what Little Finger gets up to as well. I missed him from last night's episode.

Jelle1880

Penn wrote: »

I disagree. His scenes last season with Arya showed him to be a very likable character despite being ruthless at the same time. Is he really doing anything more ruthless or loathsome that many other "good" characters haven't done too? He stopped his own people from torturing prisoners and instead put them to work. He's fighting in a war with Robb where Robb is the aggressor, not Tywin. He's trying to marry off Tyrion and Cersei which isn't as bad as Tyrion marrying off Cersei's daughter last season (Tyrion being an uncle to who he was marrying off rather than Tywin being their father).

Apart from the stuff with Tyrion's previous wife, I don't think he's really done anything that bad, unless there's stuff that I'm simply forgetting about which was talked about rather than seen on-screen.

Those scenes with Arya were an attempt by the writers to make him more likeable, I've never felt he was even remotely 'Ok' in the books.

He's a ****, end of.

As for the bad things he's done:

House Tarbeck and House Reyne.
Forced his father's mistress to walk around Lannisport naked, before banishing her.
The sacking of King's Landing and the slaughter and rape of women and children and the murder of Elia of Dorne and her children.

Roar

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Those scenes with Arya were an attempt by the writers to make him more likeable, I've never felt he was even remotely 'Ok' in the books.

He's a ****, end of.

but we're not discussing the books here, so your point is irrelevant.

theteal

Degag wrote: »

Have to agree in many ways. That scene in the end tonight was fantastic IMO. I thought he was going the toss the fella who cut off his hand into the bearpit though.

I was hoping for a nice left hook to send him over the railing

Professional Griefer wrote: »

Dragons looked class.

Yup, their heads reminded me of some post-midnight fed gremlins

I quite enjoyed that episode, I think I've become acclimatised to the slow pace at this stage.

Am I mad to think that the Hound may take Arya under his paw wing and school her into a battling bad-ass?

Penn

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Those scenes with Arya were an attempt by the writers to make him more likeable, I've never felt he was even remotely 'Ok' in the books.

He's a ****, end of.

Well this is the thread for those who haven't read the books, so we can only base our opinions off the show, and in the show he's quite likable.

Jelle1880

Penn wrote: »

Well this is the thread for those who haven't read the books, so we can only base our opinions off the show, and in the show he's quite likable.

Yes, my bad, I mix these threads up sometimes

Penn

theteal wrote: »

Am I mad to think that the Hound may take Arya under his paw wing and school her into a battling bad-ass?

Considering how much Arya hates him and wants to kill him (he's one of the names she keeps saying), I doubt it. Especially with how she kept telling the Brotherhood guys to kill him. I'd say it's more likely that given the amount of enemies he seems to have, he's either taking her to King's Landing to get back in good with the Lannisters, or he'll use her as a bargaining tool for safety

pixelburp

Penn wrote: »

I disagree. His scenes last season with Arya showed him to be a very likable character despite being ruthless at the same time. Is he really doing anything more ruthless or loathsome that many other "good" characters haven't done too? He stopped his own people from torturing prisoners and instead put them to work. He's fighting in a war with Robb where Robb is the aggressor, not Tywin. He's trying to marry off Tyrion and Cersei which isn't as bad as Tyrion marrying off Cersei's daughter last season (Tyrion being an uncle to who he was marrying off rather than Tywin being their father).

Apart from the stuff with Tyrion's previous wife, I don't think he's really done anything that bad, unless there's stuff that I'm simply forgetting about which was talked about rather than seen on-screen.

Hmmm, I phrased it badly; loathsome is the wrong word to use. Tywin isn't a conventionally evil person - Joffrey in other words - but he's clearly not a compassionate man, or particularly empathetic; far from it as I see it. He's quite vicious in his own way.

He seems like a ruthlessly pragmatic individual who will step over/on anyone to get what's required & things like stopping the torture of prisoners seemed more like the realization that they were useful to his campaign, than any sense of benevolence (he certainly pales in comparison with Danaerys on that front). I thought last weeks scene with Olenna nicely demonstrated that - even she was taken aback by how determined & ruthless he was, willing to sign away her grandson's life in the blink of an eye.

The way he treats his family also shows how emotionally stunted & callous he is. What he did to Tyrion's first wife I think merely punctuates this fact - he wanted to teach his son a lesson and did it with a cold, emotionless detachment that's just as scary as any lunatic with a crossbow fetish.

duploelabs

Think it's quite funny that people thought that this was the poorest episode since blackwater considering they (and the pointy end) were adapted and screen written by George rr martin himself

krudler

Penn wrote: »

Well this is the thread for those who haven't read the books, so we can only base our opinions off the show, and in the show he's quite likable.

I wouldn't call Tywin likeable either, but he's certainly charismatic, his scenes with Arya stole the show last season I was sad to see him leave Harrenhal I hoped he'd bring her with him as his servant. He's a bastard, but he's a bastard you'd like to have on your side. I'm a big fan of Charles Dance in general so it's great seeing him have such a prominent role in this.

Thought the CGI was excellent on the dragons, the effect budget must have been tripled this season there's no dodgy shots. The scene with the bear was very good as well, Jaime and Brienne's story gets better every week.

I didnt find this slow at all, in fact I think season 3 so far has been the most solid since the show began, everything is falling nicely into place, last season everything was building to the battle, this season it's all character progression.

Gbear

krudler wrote: »

Thought the CGI was excellent on the dragons, the effect budget must have been tripled this season there's no dodgy shots. The scene with the bear was very good as well, Jaime and Brienne's story gets better every week.

I'm pretty sure that was an actual bear though. Just CG quarrels.

ProjectColossus

Speaking of CGI, did anyone else notice the green screen reflecting on Gendry's face when he's on the boat? Unless there was still a lot of wildfire floating about...

duploelabs

ProjectColossus wrote: »

Speaking of CGI, did anyone else notice the green screen reflecting on Gendry's face when he's on the boat? Unless there was still a lot of wildfire floating about...

That'd be the sea sickness is the excuse I'm sure they'd use

Pepe LeFrits

Before the TV show started, Tywin sacked Kings Landing and had the Targaryen babies murdered. It's been mentioned numerous times.

On the show he sent The Mountain out to rape and pillage the Riverlands, causing Ned Stark to summon him to court.

He's also routinely callous in the extreme towards Tyrion and Cersei.

He's a bad egg.

krudler

Gbear wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that was an actual bear though. Just CG quarrels.

Oh yeah it was a real bear, i meant the dragons and the city vistas, that shot of Kings Landing when Gendry was on the boat was well done, and the army at Dany's camp.

Mickeroo

It's the first time we've really been shown the proper scale of any of the armies in the show. You'd be forgiven for thinking Robb, Stannis and the Lannisters only have a few hundred following them.

krudler

Mickeroo wrote: »

It's the first time we've really been shown the proper scale of any of the armies in the show. You'd be forgiven for thinking Robb, Stannis and the Lannisters only have a few hundred following them.

Yeah they tend to keep any scenes at army camps in tents or tight cameras with small numbers of extras unless its really needed. It's still an expensive looking show though the budget must be huge for it, love the design of the throne room, huge set. Thought that scene was brilliant where Tywin just stomped up the steps to the iron throne and Joffrey looked like a scolded child.

Mickeroo

krudler wrote: »

Yeah they tend to keep any scenes at army camps in tents or tight cameras with small numbers of extras unless its really needed. It's still an expensive looking show though the budget must be huge for it, love the design of the throne room, huge set. Thought that scene was brilliant where Tywin just stomped up the steps to the iron throne and Joffrey looked like a scolded child.

The sets a brilliant, Baelor's Sept looked fantastic earlier this season too. Even the shots of the wall and that are all very well done. Gotta love the armour too.

That was a great moment alright, loved the way Joffrey was squirming when Tywin was suddenly looking down on him rather than the other way around

krudler

Mickeroo wrote: »

The sets a brilliant, Baelor's Sept looked fantastic earlier this season too. Even the shots of the wall and that are all very well done. Gotta love the armour too.

That was a great moment alright, loved the way Joffrey was squirming when Tywin was suddenly looking down on him rather than the other way around

yeah the Kingsguard armour is fantastic, Barristen Selmy looks like a badass when he wore his, Jaime too. Must be cool for the actors to strut around in stuff like that