Zombrex wrote: » Do you honestly believe that your god does not want that man to find a loving fulfilling relationship with another man, a life partner a companion to share this journey with? How can you even believe a god like that exists? How could anyone not want someone to find that? Seriously, I just don't get it.
tommy2bad wrote: » Jimi thinks it's fine if he finds happiness with another person male or female, just as long as if it's male they don't fiddle with each others bits. 'Cos God who created the world really cares about what we do with our bits, even more than He cares about other stuff.
JimiTime wrote: » It is not ME that you have an issue with Tommy, it is God. It is not MY message I am speaking, but Gods. You need to take it up with him. I really hope you decide to.
IT-Guy wrote: » What a cop out. The ultimate excuse for bigotry, "it's not my belief, it's my God's". Such barefaced cowardice in the face of rational and legitimate criticism speaks volumes for the ability of the religiously indoctrinated to think for themselves. If anyone can give me any good reason that isn't religious in origin for disagreeing with gay marriage then I'll never post in here again (indeed I may not for a while if the mods so deem it). Actually I may even quit the interwebz
JimiTime wrote: » Tuck yer head in. There was no talk of Gay marriage, but rather a professing Christian (Tommy), who argues against what has been revealed by the Law the Prophets, the Gospels and the saints. So rather than quit the interwebz, you just need to read a little better
IT-Guy wrote: » If Tommy's a professing Christian then I'm the pope!
JimiTime wrote: » Welcome to the forum so your papalness.
JimiTime wrote: » Found this testimony quite difficult. I empathise with it so much in terms of my own shortcomings, and inner battles. It must be SO much more difficult for someone like this. Keep him in your prayers folks.http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/39373-a-gay-struggler-finds-assurance-in-the-lord
IT-Guy wrote: » To the bolded bit of your post, have you something you'd like to admit to your captive audience? It would certainly explain your rather vehement opposition to gay marriage and the topic of homosexuality in general
Zombrex wrote: » There is no point hiding behind the claim it is what God wants as if it is nothing to do with you. It is what someone has said God wants, and you believed that claim.
JimiTime wrote: » I'm not hiding, or passing the buck. I stand 100% with it. I'm in no way reluctant. You, and others seem to miss the point of what I said. The issue with a professing Christian making snide comments at other Christians about this, is that its not the person that they have the issue with, its the God they claim to worship that they have the issue with. Just like if a professing Christian was making snidey remarks at a Christian in relation to adultery, it would be God that the person is actually having an issue with. So my post was directly referring to Tommy, a professing Christian, who has an issue with God in matters of homosexuality.
JimiTime wrote: » I'm not hiding, or passing the buck. I stand 100% with it. I'm in no way reluctant. You, and others seem to miss the point of what I said. The issue with a professing Christian making snide comments at other Christians about this, is that its not the person that they have the issue with, its the God they claim to worship that they have the issue with.
Zombrex wrote: » But again you say that as if "the God" is a known objective quantity. A more accurate way to put it is that its not the person that they have issue with, it is the claims about that God that the person believes are accurate that they have issue with Which means it is the person they have issue with.You believe in a god that is opposed to homosexual relationships. You believe that out of all the claims about god this claim is true, while rejecting a host of other claims about God. Saying that this is just how God is is a deflection, because you choose which claims to believe about how God is in the first place. Lots of people have claimed things about God that you don't believe.
tommy2bad wrote: » No, it's you and the likes of you, so certain that your interpretation is the only one and if not the only one then the correct one.I read the same books you do and I don't see love forbiden only fornication, I see far more condemnation of other things that you don't get so upset about. No Jimi it's not God, only your version of God. And you know what they say about God hating the same people as you?
IT-Guy wrote: » I think it's safe to say the view that anti-homosexuality is a church belief not a personal belief has been thoroughly debunked here. So when shown how illogical and irrational the anti-gay stance is, religious people have 2 choices: 1) Accept that their personal beliefs line up with that of the church and use freedom of religious belief to shield them from any criticism of their bigoted POV, thus perpetuating their own hateful stance 2) Accept that the church's teaching on homosexuality is the source of their own bigoted belief on the issue and resolve any dissonance with whatever conclusions independent thought may lead them to by capitulating to the views of their supposed moral superiors, thus perpetuating the church's hateful ideology. Either option is dishonest, morally corrupt and not worthy of the respect of any free thinking individual.
JimiTime wrote: » Lucky I don't seek the praise of men then isn't it I think the issue of homosexuality is one that has indeed been handled poorly. This may be due to the disgust at the act, and the unfathomable nature of the act. I.E. When someone is struggling with fornicating with members of the opposite sex, there is a degree of empathy, as most can relate to desiring members of the opposite sex. Whereas, people find it hard to empathise with homosexuality. The link below is to the blog of a Christian woman struggling with same sex attraction which shows the Churches failings in embracing, helping and encouraging her, as well as the failings of so called Christians who seek to get her to continue her homosexual behaviour.http://hunterbaker.wordpress.com/201...ter-in-christ/ Also, the youtube series, starting with the video below, pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter and addresses the Christian issues.
1ZRed wrote: » From reading this and watching the religious people handle the questions put to them and how they seem to justify them I've come to the conclusion that they are sheep. Not to mean it in an extremely disrespectfull way, but all ye seem to do is follow without question and parrot back what you've been told to say. Ye don't seem to be able to look at things rationally for yourselves for a second to form a conclusion that wasn't already put together for you. I'm not trying to offend I'm just genuinely confused as to why a person could be apart of that and not get to think for themselves and make their view of the world, good or bad, and judge it that way instead of always following the same message, same stance, same outlook of life for the last 2000 years. I just find that baffling.
1ZRed wrote: » From reading this and watching the religious people handle the questions put to them and how they seem to justify them I've come to the conclusion that they are sheep.
Not to mean it in an extremely disrespectfull way, but all ye seem to do is follow without question and parrot back what you've been told to say. Ye don't seem to be able to look at things rationally for yourselves for a second to form a conclusion that wasn't already put together for you.
I'm not trying to offend
I'm just genuinely confused as to why a person could be apart of that and not get to think for themselves and make their view of the world, good or bad, and judge it that way instead of always following the same message, same stance, same outlook of life for the last 2000 years. I just find that baffling.
1ZRed wrote: » Seriously please tell me how homosexuality needs to be helped and actually tell me how these religious organisations intend to help or "cure" it. It is idiotic to think it can be cured as it is a completely natural phenomenon with evidence to support it. There's no evidence to support your theory that it can be cured, only a vast amount of evidence to the contrary - with may passed "ex-homosexuals" even coming about and saying they were never actually cured. It's annoying to think that some faith from a 2000 year old book can best modern, scientific knowledge, and the way ye seem to go thinking that it can pushes the idea that's it's wrong and needs fixing which then leads to open discrimination and somehow the right that ye can go about doing it because ye think it's justified.
JimiTime wrote: » Secondly, there are many non-religious reasons to question homosexuality, redefining marriage etc, but essentially, as a Christian, seeking Gods heart on the matter is what is most important.
Corkfeen wrote: » What are the non religious reasons to object to same sex marriage or homosexuality?:rolleyes:
Benny_Cake wrote: » C'mon now, there have been plenty of non-religious objections to same-sex marriage and homosexuality. The top one seems to be something along the lines of "I don't like it" or "it just isn't natural" - personal distaste/prejudice in other words.
JimiTime wrote: » Well the reason I object to redefining marriage is not a religious one, but a societal one. Contrary to what the lobby groups say, the state is not interested in who you love. That is not why it holds marriage in esteem. In some ways, due to the fact that powerful politicians are now regurgitating the LGBT lobby's words about 'Why should we tell people who they can love' (What nonsense), it could be said its already been redefined in order to be legally redefined. So not only is the state undermining marriage by doing such a thing, but it also means that there is no logical reason to deny incestuous, polyamorous or whatever else comes down the line. Marriage afterall, according to the likes of David Cameron, is the state telling people who they can and cannot love. Marriage as the institution of one man and woman for life, to the exclusion of all others, is the most secure place for children to born into and be raised in. It is the foundation of a successful society, and is what should be maintained and in fact strengthened and continually encouraged.
