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Child Item

No more SW communion/confirmation payments

paddy147

I see the DSW are stopping Communion/Confirmation payments.

Going to be lots of unhappy parents and kids out there so.

Its on the RTE Lunchtime News right now.

It will hit alot of hard pressed families.

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monflat

How much was the payment anyway.?

paddy147

VinLieger wrote: »

Means test subsidising a religous ceremony? NO! maybe transfer it over to some other payment but we need to remove every vestige of the churches influence on this country

We also need to cut TDs crazy high allowences too,,,but I dont see that happening......in fact they are actually getting more now than ever before.;):rolleyes:

Lets just keep on hitting the innocent kids and families in severe financial hardship.

aN.Droid

paddy147 wrote: »

Could it be means tested perhaps???

People that realy do need the extra money due to the recession and possible loss of job,can be means tested for the payment.

Surely stoppng some of the TDs crazy high perks/allowences would save more money than stoping this small once off payment all together??

it is an unnecessary payment with religious elements.

It doesn't cost anything to go in the school uniform. No need for the grant.

paddy147

monflat wrote: »

How much was the payment anyway.?

Something like 110-120 euro I think.

VinLieger

paddy147 wrote: »

Something like 110-120 euro I think.

Was reduced to that last year, was 240 in 2011 and cost 3.4 million

Lollipops23

Fine by me tbh, was inappropriate in the first place.

It's not an offence to give the communion a miss, and it's also not an offence to do it on the cheap if you're strapped for cash.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

VinLieger wrote: »

Means test subsidising a religous ceremony? NO! maybe transfer it over to some other payment but we need to remove every vestige of the churches influence on this country

In fairness, Communions and Confirmations have been so diluted at this stage there's very little religious significance to most families participating in it anyway.

hyperborean

Good,

VinLieger

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

In fairness, Communions and Confirmations have been so diluted at this stage there's very little religious significance to most families participating in it anyway.

True but that just adds to the ridiculousness of it

Nodin

kylith wrote: »

I disagree because I think that schools shouldn't have anything to do with sacraments. Let them make it in identical white robes which can be bought/rented/borrowed from the parish.

...or got in 2nd hand in bulk from some parts of the US.

mikom

Just so as we are clear.......... the helicopter grant still stands, right?

paddy147

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Fine by me tbh, was inappropriate in the first place.

It's not an offence to give the communion a miss, and it's also not an offence to do it on the cheap if you're strapped for cash.

Thats fair enough

BUT

What happens to a person/family who has no money left at the end of each week to do it on the cheap??

And there is alot of people out there in that very situation at the moment,because of recession and harsh austerity

All I am doing is making the point on each side of this,thats all.:)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

VinLieger wrote: »

True but that just adds to the ridiculousness of it

Oh, absolutely. But I'm more against the idea of the SW givign payments becuse this is a vain, frivilous and almost abusive to the kids than because it's a religious ceremeny. That said, I'd still be against it for both reasons.

wexie

paddy147 wrote: »

Could it be means tested perhaps???

People that realy do need the extra money due to the recession and possible loss of job,can be means tested for the payment.

Surely stoppng some of the TDs crazy high perks/allowences would save more money than stoping this small once off payment all together??

While I agree with you on the TD allowances I would very much argue against any kind of communion / nonsense allowance, means tested or not.

If you can't afford your religion maybe it's time to rethink your priorities. Next thing we know some Muslim takes out a case under the equality act as he can't afford the pilgrimage to Mecca. Should that be covered under SW?

The state has no business subsidising anything like this and quite frankly it woulnd't harm parents to teach their kids exactly why the fancy dress, orange hues and stretch limo really aren't that appropriate or important for a communion, confirmation or Bar Mitswah etc. etc.

paddy147

wexie wrote: »

While I agree with you on the TD allowances I would very much argue against any kind of communion / nonsense allowance, means tested or not.

If you can't afford your religion maybe it's time to rethink your priorities. Next thing we know some Muslim takes out a case under the equality act as he can't afford the pilgrimage to Mecca. Should that be covered under SW?

The state has no business subsidising anything like this and quite frankly it woulnd't harm parents to teach their kids exactly why the fancy dress, orange hues and stretch limo really aren't that appropriate or important for a communion, confirmation or Bar Mitswah etc. etc.

Well you could say that for alot of things.

German Bondholders would be 1 thing...but they still get their 3.1 billion.:eek:

Constantly breaking salary pay caps to appoint allready overpaid people to even higher paid jobs.

wexie

paddy147 wrote: »

Well you could say that for alot of things.

German Bondholders would be 1 thing...but they still get their 3.1 billion.:eek:

No argument from me on that one. I'd much rather pay for some dodgy fake tan than the unsecured bondholders, sadly though I don't think it's up for debate.

westies4ever

paddy147 wrote: »

Well you could say that for alot of things.

German Bondholders would be 1 thing...but they still get their 3.1 billion.:eek:

Constantly breaking salary pay caps to appoint allready overpaid people to even higher paid jobs.

completely seperate issues and nothing to do with secularism.

Lollipops23

paddy147 wrote: »

Thats fair enough

BUT

What happens to a person/family who has no money left at the end of each week to do it on the cheap??

And there is alot of people out there in that very situation at the moment,because of recession and harsh austerity

All I am doing is making the point on each side of this,thats all.:)

Why is that the SW office's problem? Money for a communion suit/dress is the definition of a frivolous expense. Are they starving? Do they heat/electricity/schoolbooks? These are necessities and I wouldn't ever want someone to go without them. Spending several hundred quid on a big white dress? They can do without that.

Paramite Pie

McLoughlin wrote: »

Now make it compulsory to make it in school uniforms.

VinLieger wrote: »

Fantastic news, make school uniforms compulsory for these events and parents can fund the stupid parties themselves or band together to pay for one big one, enough subsidising of religious ceremonies

I assume both of you know that it's not up to the Government to decide what kids wear for a private religious ceremony.

Also parents should have the cop on and stick to their budget no matter how much their little princess wants a a fancy label.:rolleyes:

VinLieger

Paramite Pie wrote: »

I assume both of you know that it's not up to the Government to decide what kids wear for a private religious ceremony.

Also parents should have the cop on and stick to their budget no matter how much their little princess wants a a fancy label.:rolleyes:

Yes i think the government is responsible entirely for what children are awllowed wear...... obviously meant schools and churches should impose this rule

kylith

paddy147 wrote: »

Thats fair enough

BUT

What happens to a person/family who has no money left at the end of each week to do it on the cheap??

And there is alot of people out there in that very situation at the moment,because of recession and harsh austerity

All I am doing is making the point on each side of this,thats all.:)

If they can't do it on the cheap, they can do it for free. There is no charge to make your Communion; it is a free service provided by the RCC. If they are truly Catholic then it is the sacrament that should be important, not the dress or the party.

paddy147

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Why is that the SW office's problem? Money for a communion suit/dress is the definition of a frivolous expense. Are they starving? Do they heat/electricity/schoolbooks? These are necessities and I wouldn't ever want someone to go without them. Spending several hundred quid on a big white dress? They can do without that.

Well in some cases (Credit Union and SVP case studies)...YES-starving and NO-none or hardly any heat leccy,schoolbooks...due to lack of money at the end of each week.

110-120 euro is not a huge amount of money (well it is to alot of people nowadays) and will get you the entire kit in quite a good few of the communion shops.

Im not talking about paying hundreads of euros out on a white dress.I never once mentioned that at all

So why are you painting every family and child in Ireland wth the 1 brush?????

Yawlboy

Jasus thats going to hit the Dacia Sandero sales then.

Steve O

Gonna be a lot more atheists on the next census.

Teyla Emmagan

paddy147 wrote: »

Well in some cases (Credit Union and SVP case studies)...YES-starving and NO-none or hardly any heat leccy,schoolbooks...due to lack of money at the end of each week.

110-120 euro is not a huge amount of money (well it is to alot of people nowadays) and will get you the entire kit in quite a good few of the communion shops.

Im not talking about paying hundreads of euros out on a white dress.I never once mentioned that at all

So why are you painting every family and child in Ireland wth the 1 brush?????:(

The 'kit' is irrelevant to the ceremony, you don't need any special outfit to make your communion or confirmation. If parents can afford to spend a fortune, then let them off, but the rest of us can't be subsidising this needless expense. Religious ceremonies are optional things, if you can't pay for them yourself then don't have them. Scrapping this has been long overdue.

Plazaman

snubbleste wrote: »

Eh this is news last December when it was announced, widely publicised at the time.

I think they reduced the amount given out which was the news back in December but they scrapping it altogether now.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0411/380810-religious-ceremonies-grants/

Lollipops23

paddy147 wrote: »

Well in some cases (Credit Union and SVP case studies)...YES-starving and NO-none or hardly any heat leccy,schoolbooks...due to lack of money at the end of each week.

110-120 euro is not a huge amount of money (well it is to alot of people nowadays) and will get you the entire kit in quite a good few of the communion shops.

If they're struggling to eat right and stay warm etc then it's all the more insulting that they would spend such an amount of money on a white frock.

Jesus, priorities please.

Agent Smith

What costs are involved in a Holy Communion that warrants a supplementary payment? The white dress for girls (and crossdressing/fashionable boys?) ? if the church demands that you need a white dress, they should supply it.

Gatling

VinLieger wrote: »

Yes i think the government is responsible entirely for what children are awllowed wear...... obviously meant schools and churches should impose this rule

My nieces school had a meeting with parents where it was proposed a simple white gown worn over a school uniform be used for communions as most of them were complaining about the cost of dress's
Guess what they all voted against the idea in favour of the expensive dresses

paddy147

So lots of things are being scrapped......

Right so.

Wonder will,they scrap my property tax then ?

I mean afterall ...I dont need a property tax