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Child Item

Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

MadsL

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name. She hates it and has frequently resisted it by saying to her teacher 'that's not my name'. Her teachers continually 'correct' her if she asserts that her name is her name by repeating the translated name back to her.

Should she put up with this? What does AH think?

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Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

You're an awfull hyprocrite you know that, an incident where an authority figure tries to force Irish on someone and you're up in arms, but if it were an incident where an authority figure tries to force English on someone you would have a different tune.

Nope, as much as you would like paint me as a hypocrite I'm not. If I were a teacher and I had a Daithi in my class I wouldn't call him David.

MadsL

username123 wrote: »

I actually had originally typed that post to include the sentence "but not something offensive" and then thought I was making a far too obvious point. Clearly not.

So when are you changing it? If it doesn't matter to your identity, off you go.

And offensive by whose measure? She finds the sound of the name offensive to her ears, does that count?

4zn76tysfajdxp

lol, is this thread still going? Just call the school up and say "Hey, this is Madsl. My daughter Y doesn't like being called X and we'd prefer it if the teachers referred to her by her proper name. Thanks." *click*

MadsL

reprazant wrote: »

My god, you are actually incapable of discussing things like an adult.

Right, I am out.

I'd imagine one could get a more mature discussion with your teenage daughter rather than with you.

Reprazant I don't beleive that you want a discussion if you are not prepared to even grasp the simplest of concepts that I have highlighted - like consent - that I have posted three of more times in response to you.

username123

MadsL wrote: »

So when are you changing it? If it doesn't matter to your identity, off you go.

And offensive by whose measure? She finds the sound of the name offensive to her ears, does that count?

My username isnt my real name. Its already changed.

Finds the sound of the name offensive to her ears? Maybe she needs to see a doctor? Is that a physical or psychological problem do you think?

I am also out of here as OP is unable to have a reasonable adult discussion. I gave you your answer - deed poll.

MadsL

Alaia Whining Army wrote: »

lol, is this thread still going? Just call the school up and say "Hey, this is Madsl. My daughter Y doesn't like being called X and we'd prefer it if the teachers referred to her by her proper name. Thanks." *click*

One option.

They'll still keep all her records in the wrong name.

Iwasfrozen

MadsL wrote: »

One option.

They'll still keep all her records in the wrong name.

Ask them to change that too.

4zn76tysfajdxp

MadsL wrote: »

One option.

They'll still keep all her records in the wrong name.

Well then tell them you want the records changed too. With your inaction you're risking the chance of more inaccurate records being made in the future. Just make the call ffs. The school's probably open right now, as I type this.

MadsL

username123 wrote: »

My username isnt my real name. Its already changed.

So you are refusing to change it? I thought it had no relation to your identity and sense of self. Clearly it does. And you also disliked having someone else pick it.

Finds the sound of the name offensive to her ears? Maybe she needs to see a doctor? Is that a physical or psychological problem do you think?

It's an ugly name. Why should she be told to take it.

I am also out of here as OP is unable to have a reasonable adult discussion. I gave you your answer - deed poll.

Ah. Blaming me for calling you out for not having the stones to change your username.

reprazant

MadsL wrote: »

Reprazant I don't beleive that you want a discussion if you are not prepared to even grasp the simplest of concepts that I have highlighted - like consent - that I have posted three of more times in response to you.

No, I asked who changed your daughters name in primary school as it is usually very strange for a 4 year to change their name. Instead of actually answering that simple question like an adult you sneered your way through an answer like a pathetic insecure child who feels the need to attempt score points.

You simply could have said that my daughter chose to have her surname in Irish in primary school, as opposed to either of her two English surnames on her birth cert but that simple answer was far too polite for you.

And that is my last input.

ibarelycare

MadsL wrote: »

One option.

They'll still keep all her records in the wrong name.

How do you know that? It sounds like you just like to imagine things are difficult so you can create drama. The solution to this issue is more than likely extremely simple.

MadsL

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ask them to change that too.

Let me find out if that is necessary first, I have some research to do.

wonderfullife

MadsL wrote: »

It is pointless to debate the actual name as I could just make one up. Is it really hard to deal with some slightly abstract thought?

No but i mean it would help to illuminate the situation. Your daughter may well be in a situation where the Irish 'translation' is pretty much her own name made to sound a bit Irishy. If so, so what.

As i said before, in a history lesson names will be translated into Irish for the most part. Yet those names are not the given names of the people in question. You can't just pick and choose when it is right or wrong to translate names. If it is wrong to translate your daughters first name (because she has a problem with it), then surely it follows it must be wrong to refer to Michael Collins as Mícheál Ó Coileáin. The fact he isn't alive to object is irrelevant to your premise - we must assume, given he is not alive, that we can't judge if he would have a problem with it.

It's a Gaelscoil, names will be translated. Translating a proper noun doesn't actually change the name. Calling Paris "Páras" in Irish, it's still Paris. Calling your daughter whatever in Irish, her name is still the one you gave to her. And still the one they are calling her - in the language spoken in the school.

username123

MadsL wrote: »

So you are refusing to change it? I thought it had no relation to your identity and sense of self. Clearly it does. And you also disliked having someone else pick it.

My username means nothing. IloveJustinBeiber means something. Its an apples and oranges analogy. You dont seem to be able to see that a proper name has no meaning. If your daughter behaves in school the way you do online about asserting a point then its no wonder there are problems. I can only assume you are trolling now as you have been given perfectly reasonably answers to a frankly silly issue.

MadsL

reprazant wrote: »

No, I asked who changed your daughters name in primary school as it is usually very strange for a 4 year to change their name. Instead of actually answering that simple question like an adult you sneered your way through an answer like a pathetic insecure child who feels the need to attempt score points.

You simply could have said that my daughter chose to have her surname in Irish in primary school, as opposed to either of her two English surnames on her birth cert but that simple answer was far too polite for you.

And that is my last input.

I sneered after you effectively called me a liar.

I told you the truth and you smarmed about how hard that was to believe.

You are getting as good as you give out frankly.

reprazant

Where did I 'effectively' call you a liar?

An Coilean

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nope, as much as you would like paint me as a hypocrite I'm not. If I were a teacher and I had a Daithi in my class I wouldn't call him David.

You have made it clear that you think it is wrong for someone to impose their cultural affinity on others. You say it is ''part of a wider rotten problem within the irish language community''

Yet when an English speaker tries to do the same, it is not 'part of a wider rotten problem' in fact if you are to be believed, should an Irish speaker dare to object to it, they are being a gob****e.

I agree that a name implies a cultural affinity, and that the teachers in question should respect that, however choice of language also implies a cultural affinity, and you have clearly shown you have no respect for that if the choice is not English.

MadsL

username123 wrote: »

My username means nothing. IloveJustinBeiber means something.

Very well - change your username to z,jhxcvjzbcjZV VZ X

Off you go. Week should do it.

Its an apples and oranges analogy. You dont seem to be able to see that a proper name has no meaning.

Wut? Books are full of the 'meanings' of babies names.

If your daughter behaves in school the way you do online about asserting a point then its no wonder there are problems.

The only problem I have decribed is that it slightly irritates both of us, and the potential administrative confusion. You are making up imaginary problems now about my daughter's exemplary behaviour in school.

I can only assume you are trolling now as you have been given perfectly reasonably answers to a frankly silly issue.

And you are trolling by describing as silly as many posters have supported that it is not an acceptable situation. Dismissing it as "silly" is not very intelligent now is it?

osarusan

wonderfullife wrote: »

Calling your daughter whatever in Irish, her name is still the one you gave to her.

It isn't. Even if it is the most accurate/accepted Irish version of her name, it isn't the same name.

The whole problem comes from the idea that the Irish version is the same name.

MadsL

reprazant wrote: »

Where did I 'effectively' call you a liar?

reprazant wrote: »

Not as much as you are struggling not to be condescending again.

I am struggling with the bit where a 4 year old chooses her own name that is different from either surnames on her actual birth cert.

Polite way of saying I don't believe you.

Dan_Solo

Sleepy wrote: »

OP, I agree with you that the school are wrong.

However, you really should have expected this kind of bollox when you put the child in a Gaelscoil in the first place. The demographic attracted to them for the Irish language (rather than the avoidance of lower socio-economic groups or to take advantage of the nonsensical bonus points) tend to be rather belligerent about the use of Irish in the first place.

This is pure bollix. Most of them get sent to Gaelscoils because they tend to have better leaving certs. There isn't any evidence really that the Irish itself contributes to this, but if parents are putting more thought into where their kids go to school, they're likely to be ensuring their kids get better educations and therefore the school itself is likely to be a better place to learn in overall.

wonderfullife

You're American right OP? Judging from all your posts etc

Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

You have made it clear that you think it is wrong for someone to impose their cultural affinity on others. You say it is ''part of a wider rotten problem within the irish language community''

Yet when an English speaker tries to do the same, it is not 'part of a wider rotten problem' in fact if you are to be believed, should an Irish speaker dare to object to it, they are being a gob****e.

I agree that a name implies a cultural affinity, and that the teachers in question should respect that, however choice of language also implies a cultural affinity, and you have clearly shown you have no respect for that if the choice is not English.

Choice of name ≠> choice of language. I have never made the argument that a child attending a gaelscoil should not be forced to speak Irish. Of course she should! Just like Irish speakers, in some circumstances should have to speak English. But never should a name be translated because once it is it stops being the person's name.

MadsL

wonderfullife wrote: »

You're American right OP? Judging from all your posts etc

Here we go again...

Nope. What bearing does my nationality, marital status, number of kids, height, weight etc or any of the other irrelevant things I have been asked have to do with the topic???

Why do people always want to pigeonhole?

wonderfullife

osarusan wrote: »

It isn't. Even if it is the most accurate/accepted Irish version of her name, it isn't the same name.

The whole problem comes from the idea that the Irish version is the same name.

Páras is a translation of Paris. A translated name is never going to be identical to the original but the city of Paris is not suddenly Páras. It's still Paris.

So if OPs kid is named Tulisa and the Irish translation is whatever, her name will always be Tulisa. She doesn't go home from school with a new name.

wonderfullife

MadsL wrote: »

Here we go again...

Nope. What bearing does my nationality, marital status, number of kids, height, weight etc or any of the other irrelevant things I have been asked have to do with the topic???

Why do people always want to pigeonhole?

Oh my bad, thought from your posts you were American or raised in America.

MadsL

wonderfullife wrote: »

Oh my bad, thought from your posts you were American or raised in America.

Why did you ask out of interest?

reprazant

MadsL wrote: »

Polite way of saying I don't believe you.

Or another way of saying that it is quite a strange and unusual thing for a 4 year old to do. I don't know many people who cared about their name at 4 or 4 year old's who care about their name. Doesn't mean I didn't believe you, just that I struggled with the idea. Believe it or not, I was one a 4 year old and I didn't not care one iota about either my first name nor my surname. Hence me thinking it was unusual and struggling with the idea.

You are just coming across as someone who is looking for an argument and is finding one no matter what people are asking. People asking simple questions are getting aggressive, sneering replies which rankles them and so they reply with the same and then you get what you seemingly want.

Dan_Solo

wonderfullife wrote: »

You're American right OP? Judging from all your posts etc

If you want to draw some wonderfully obtuse conclusion on whether it's OK to assign random Irish names to schoolchildren based on where the parents are from, why don't you just do that instead of asking?

wonderfullife

MadsL wrote: »

Why did you ask out of interest?

Just your posts i come across always indicated you spent a large period of your life in the USA and i was going to draw a conclusion of sorts from that, which could be then torn apart thus creating another 40 posts :rolleyes: