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Child Item

Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

MadsL

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name. She hates it and has frequently resisted it by saying to her teacher 'that's not my name'. Her teachers continually 'correct' her if she asserts that her name is her name by repeating the translated name back to her.

Should she put up with this? What does AH think?

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Seachmall

Deleted User wrote: »

I've an Irish name. I'd be pretty pissed if my English speaking school tried to change it.

Same here. I've an Irish name with an Irish spelling but there's a pretty common Anglecised version of it. In school when a teacher spelt it the Anglecised way and I'd correct them not once did they turn around and say "This is an English speaking school, this is how you will spell your name here!". And, like you, I'd be fairly annoyed if they did. Them pronouncing it wrong would be even more annoying.

robinph

HondaSami wrote: »

I don't get you tbh, she is attending an Irish speaking school and they are addressing her in her Irish name, this is what i would expect if i sent my kids to an Irish speaking school.
They have not changed her name, they are using the Irish version, why is it a problem? if they were speaking english in and Irish speaking school it would be more worrying imo.

But the kids name is still the same.

If they moved to France for instance would you expect their name to be changed at school?

endacl

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder would they change the name of someone called Mohammed for example?

Mohammad Ali's Mother's Maiden Name Was O'Grady. He'd be Mó Grádhaigh'

Easy!

hoodwinked

Emma for the win!

everyone should be named Emma! :pac:

Jarrod

HondaSami wrote: »

You are missing the point completely, Irish speaking schools only speak Irish, how is this wrong? would you not expect to be addressed in Irish?

I'd expect to be spoken to in Irish but why you'd translate a name is beyond me. As I said we'd a number of people with foreign names in school but the teachers never tried to translate them into English and I've no idea why they would. If my name was John and I moved to France I wouldn't start introducing myself as Jean.

Why would they not just speak to the students in Irish but call them by their actual names?

I think that secondary school can be a particularly tough time in a child's life and what the OP describes is just not on. I also think there's no way it would happen in reverse, i.e. an English speaking school insisting on calling students with Irish names by anything other than their name.

Scortho

MadsL wrote: »

I thought I made it plain that these were my daughter's views???

Why is it an either/or choice?

Sorry I missed that part.
Even still if I'm catholic and I go to a Coi school I hardly expect them to give me a catholic education. I'd expect to be given an Anglican one.
It's a gaelscoil. It's the way they operate. Likewise if she goes to the Gaeltacht during the summer shell most likely be called the same way.
That said if her name is rihanna madsl I'd be annoyed if I was being called Rhiannon ní Mhadsl.
If my name is Ann king and they were calling me aine nic an Rí I wouldn't be. It's part of the parcel of an irish school. That said if it annoys her so much go and have a chat with the principal. It may not have any effect however.

Madam

Can't see what the problem is, if every other child in school is called by their Irish name - would your child not feel a little different? Didn't do me any harm being called one thing at school and another at home:)

Rayne Wooney

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wonder would they change the name of someone called Mohammed for example? Or is it just names that are easy to change to Irish?

I've an Irish name. I'd be pretty pissed if my English speaking school tried to change it.

Generally it's only the names that can be changed in to Irish that are changed, Craig for example would not be changed but if Craig had a second name that could be changed, for example Mooney his name in an Irish school would be Craig Ó Maoinigh.

HondaSami

MadsL wrote: »

You can't address me in Irish without changing my name?

I deal with bilingual people all the time, I don't start calling José Joseph when speaking English to him.

I find the double-standard about names insane. The English changed the placenames grrr!!!! Let's change Irish kids English names back to Irish - hurrah!!

I don't get you tbh, she is attending an Irish speaking school and they are addressing her in her Irish name, this is what i would expect if i sent my kids to an Irish speaking school.
They have not changed her name, they are using the Irish version, why is it a problem? if they were speaking english in and Irish speaking school it would be more worrying imo.

Lelantos

MadsL wrote: »

You can't address me in Irish without changing my name?

I deal with bilingual people all the time, I don't start calling José Joseph when speaking English to him.

I find the double-standard about names insane. The English changed the placenames grrr!!!! Let's change Irish kids English names back to Irish - hurrah!!

Then you go to the school, tell them her name & forbid them from changing it under any circumstances, problem solved

Taco Chips

MadsL wrote: »

I see. So her good education starts with swallowing her sense of identity and feeling ashamed that her name isn't Irish enough, and obeying authority who know better.

Great start for independent thought.

Gross exaggeration much?

Your name is a small part of your identity. Much more important is your personality, who you're friends are etc... I don't see that being "swallowed" nor is she being made to feel "ashamed" of them.

It's a traditional thing. In primary school we were all addressed by our Irish names on the role. It was absolutely no big deal in the slightest. Most of us liked hearing the alternative. Added another layer to our identity if anything.

[Deleted User]

I wonder would they change the name of someone called Mohammed for example? Or is it just names that are easy to change to Irish?

I've an Irish name. I'd be pretty pissed if my English speaking school tried to change it.

robinph

HondaSami wrote: »

You are missing the point completely, Irish speaking schools only speak Irish, how is this wrong? would you not expect to be addressed in Irish?

Someones name does not change just because of what language you are speaking in though.

If a Richard and Ricardo met in a pub they would merely comment of the curiosity of having different versions of the same name, but one would still be called Richard and the other Ricardo regardless of where the pub they were having a pint in was located or what language they happened to be chatting in.

ScumLord

Change her name to something Hindi and see if they can come up with an Irish version.

MadsL

HondaSami wrote: »

You are missing the point completely, Irish speaking schools only speak Irish, how is this wrong? would you not expect to be addressed in Irish?

You can't address me in Irish without changing my name?

I deal with bilingual people all the time, I don't start calling José Joseph when speaking English to him.

I find the double-standard about names insane. The English changed the placenames grrr!!!! Let's change Irish kids English names back to Irish - hurrah!!

endacl

MadsL wrote: »

I see. So her good education starts with swallowing her sense of identity and feeling ashamed that her name isn't Irish enough, and obeying authority who know better.

Great start for independent thought.

Or you could offer a little guidance around overreacting to percieved attacks on identity? I don't know what your daughter's name is. In English, Irish, or Klingon. Yet her sense of herself remains, I presume, entirely intact? She'll likely take her lead from her mother. If you confirm its a big deal, then a big deal it will forever be...

WayneMolloy

MadsL wrote: »

I see. So her good education starts with swallowing her sense of identity and feeling ashamed that her name isn't Irish enough, and obeying authority who know better.

Great start for independent thought.

Send her to an English speaking school if it irks you so much.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Identity is a huge deal.

Identity is. Being called by your Irish name in a Gaelscoil isn't IMO

The_Nipper_One

Scortho wrote: »

Yike nalin. Chances are they won't do anything to that name as its nowhere near an irish name.

That's my point. A name is a name, it is assigned to an entity and is specific to that entity.

MurdyWurdy

I wouldn't be too happy about it, tbh but maybe that's just how they do things. If they do it for everyone then I guess she's not being singled out.

I knew a girl called Joy who went to a convent school for a while, the nuns refused to call her her name because it was a pagan name and instead called her a female saints name - whichever one's day was closest to the day they were speaking to her. That to me is even weirder.

MadsL

Taco Chips wrote: »

Or she should make a very minor compromise to get the best education available to her. What's your point?

I see. So her good education starts with swallowing her sense of identity and feeling ashamed that her name isn't Irish enough, and obeying authority who know better.

Great start for independent thought.

HondaSami

Jarrod wrote: »

I think you've a fair grievance there OP. When I was in school we'd a number of foreign people in the year and there names were never translated into English, nor should they be. If Pierre comes from Paris and joins an English speaking school why the hell would his name suddenly become Peter?

Some kids have enough bullsh*t to deal with in school without feeling like they've to battle with their teachers too.

You are missing the point completely, Irish speaking schools only speak Irish, how is this wrong? would you not expect to be addressed in Irish?

Jarrod

I think you've a fair grievance there OP. When I was in school we'd a number of foreign people in the year and there names were never translated into English, nor should they be. If Pierre comes from Paris and joins an English speaking school why the hell would his name suddenly become Peter?

Some kids have enough bullsh*t to deal with in school without feeling like they've to battle with their teachers too.

endacl

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It's Ristéard in Irish though?

Gan fada. Risteard.

See? Bi-lingually pedantic!

Taco Chips

MadsL wrote: »

She shouldn't get the best education available to her because this irritates her? Really?

Or she should make a very minor compromise to get the best education available to her. What's your point?

MadsL

Scortho wrote: »

My name is Sean o c in irish. I don't mind if people call me by my name in irish. In fact I hated when people didn't when we were speaking in irish.
Whatever about your issue If it was a non gaelscoil and it was an irish teacher and your daughter didn't like it fair enough but when she's going to a gaelscoil it's kinda expected.
Simple solution:don't send the next child to a gaelscoil if the name being put into irish bothers you so much.
Out of curiosity however is it just a random name they've assigned to her or is it her own name in irish. For example if her name is Catherine and they call her Caitlin fair enough.
If her name is Jane and they call her Caitlin then you have a case to make.

I thought only people with a love for irish sent their kids to gaelscoileanna?

I thought I made it plain that these were my daughter's views???

Why is it an either/or choice?

Scortho

The_Nipper_One wrote: »

Oh really?

What's the Irish for Yike Nalin?

Yike nalin. Chances are they won't do anything to that name as its nowhere near an irish name.

endacl

MadsL wrote: »

Does John not get to be called John if that is what is on his birth cert? If John's parents want to call him Eoin, they would have called him Eoin, no???

I don't disagree. Just being pedantic. The John/Seán common mistake might have illustrated the point a little more clearly though.

In the example you gave though, and if this is actually a battle worth fighting (you did sign the child up for a gaelscoil education, after all. As gaeilge...), perhaps if the child responded to the teachers each time he was addressed by the ainm as gaeilge, he were to respond 'John is ainm dom' and just continue from there?

Or does this seem a little....... silly? A little first-world-problematic?

Rayne Wooney

MadsL wrote: »

But it is not her name. Would you expect to be called Ricardo in Spain rather than Richard? Your name is an important part of your identity.

It's Ristéard in Irish though?

MadsL

Taco Chips wrote: »

I think she should stop being a pussy and just get on with it. Honestly of all things that can go wrong in secondary school this is pretty low on this list. If the issue is she doesn't like the Gaeilge of the name, don't go to a Gaelscoil. If the issue is that the translation isn't accurate just correct it.

She shouldn't get the best education available to her because this irritates her? Really?