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Child Item

Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

MadsL

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name. She hates it and has frequently resisted it by saying to her teacher 'that's not my name'. Her teachers continually 'correct' her if she asserts that her name is her name by repeating the translated name back to her.

Should she put up with this? What does AH think?

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HondaSami

MadsL wrote: »

Two years. She has tried and tried. All the documentation that the school have is in her "translated" name. I suspect this may cause future problems with emigration. Her passport also has an additional surname.

I can't see how it will cause problems with emigration, Is her passport in Irish or English?
Is the Irish version they are using the same one you would use?

The_Nipper_One

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yes.

Oh really?

What's the Irish for Yike Nalin?

Scortho

MadsL wrote: »

Does John not get to be called John if that is what is on his birth cert? If John's parents want to call him Eoin, they would have called him Eoin, no???

My name is Sean o c in irish. I don't mind if people call me by my name in irish. In fact I hated when people didn't when we were speaking in irish.
Whatever about your issue If it was a non gaelscoil and it was an irish teacher and your daughter didn't like it fair enough but when she's going to a gaelscoil it's kinda expected.
Simple solution:don't send the next child to a gaelscoil if the name being put into irish bothers you so much.
Out of curiosity however is it just a random name they've assigned to her or is it her own name in irish. For example if her name is Catherine and they call her Caitlin fair enough.
If her name is Jane and they call her Caitlin then you have a case to make.

I thought only people with a love for irish sent their kids to gaelscoileanna?

Taco Chips

I think she should stop being a pussy and just get on with it. Honestly of all things that can go wrong in secondary school this is pretty low on this list. If the issue is she doesn't like the Gaeilge of the name, don't go to a Gaelscoil. If the issue is that the translation isn't accurate just correct it.

[Deleted User]

Your name is your name; as has been pointed out, you don't get called a different one when you go abroad and they have another language. Contact the school and have this cleared up and her docs corrected.

MadsL

Gatling wrote: »

Yes but in a gaelscoil everything is identified in Gaelic so its right to be called or addressed in irish

But it is not her name. Would you expect to be called Ricardo in Spain rather than Richard? Your name is an important part of your identity.

Jamey

Riamfada wrote: »

My first name is English and my surname is Scottish. They used to stick an "O" in between and a fada on a few vowels and pronounce it like the walking dead talk.

Hilarious, my name is my name. Germans dont call me "Hans"

Ha, I'm exact same. English first name and Scottish second name.

In primary school my teachers would put an Ó' in front of my second name. Then in secondary school the teachers scrapped the Ó' and replaced an "f" with a "bh" and stuck in a pointless "ú" for good measure. Every teacher had a different take on what my Irish name should be.

Although Irish wasn't as bad as Spanish in primary school for being rechristened. We did it in 5th and 6th class and were basically all given random Spanish names that had no connection whatsoever to our real names. One lad called David even got to choose his, and chose Raúl after the famous footballer.

This goes on a lot in Asia when children are learning English in primary school apparently. Some friends who have come back from teaching English in Korea have taught students named "Wayne Rooney". One particular boy who was very interested in technology called himself "Samsung Jobs"!

MadsL

Taco Chips wrote: »

I think she should stop being a pussy and just get on with it. Honestly of all things that can go wrong in secondary school this is pretty low on this list. If the issue is she doesn't like the Gaeilge of the name, don't go to a Gaelscoil. If the issue is that the translation isn't accurate just correct it.

She shouldn't get the best education available to her because this irritates her? Really?

Rayne Wooney

MadsL wrote: »

But it is not her name. Would you expect to be called Ricardo in Spain rather than Richard? Your name is an important part of your identity.

It's Ristéard in Irish though?

endacl

MadsL wrote: »

Does John not get to be called John if that is what is on his birth cert? If John's parents want to call him Eoin, they would have called him Eoin, no???

I don't disagree. Just being pedantic. The John/Seán common mistake might have illustrated the point a little more clearly though.

In the example you gave though, and if this is actually a battle worth fighting (you did sign the child up for a gaelscoil education, after all. As gaeilge...), perhaps if the child responded to the teachers each time he was addressed by the ainm as gaeilge, he were to respond 'John is ainm dom' and just continue from there?

Or does this seem a little....... silly? A little first-world-problematic?

Scortho

The_Nipper_One wrote: »

Oh really?

What's the Irish for Yike Nalin?

Yike nalin. Chances are they won't do anything to that name as its nowhere near an irish name.

MadsL

Scortho wrote: »

My name is Sean o c in irish. I don't mind if people call me by my name in irish. In fact I hated when people didn't when we were speaking in irish.
Whatever about your issue If it was a non gaelscoil and it was an irish teacher and your daughter didn't like it fair enough but when she's going to a gaelscoil it's kinda expected.
Simple solution:don't send the next child to a gaelscoil if the name being put into irish bothers you so much.
Out of curiosity however is it just a random name they've assigned to her or is it her own name in irish. For example if her name is Catherine and they call her Caitlin fair enough.
If her name is Jane and they call her Caitlin then you have a case to make.

I thought only people with a love for irish sent their kids to gaelscoileanna?

I thought I made it plain that these were my daughter's views???

Why is it an either/or choice?

Taco Chips

MadsL wrote: »

She shouldn't get the best education available to her because this irritates her? Really?

Or she should make a very minor compromise to get the best education available to her. What's your point?

endacl

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It's Ristéard in Irish though?

Gan fada. Risteard.

See? Bi-lingually pedantic!

Jarrod

I think you've a fair grievance there OP. When I was in school we'd a number of foreign people in the year and there names were never translated into English, nor should they be. If Pierre comes from Paris and joins an English speaking school why the hell would his name suddenly become Peter?

Some kids have enough bullsh*t to deal with in school without feeling like they've to battle with their teachers too.

HondaSami

Jarrod wrote: »

I think you've a fair grievance there OP. When I was in school we'd a number of foreign people in the year and there names were never translated into English, nor should they be. If Pierre comes from Paris and joins an English speaking school why the hell would his name suddenly become Peter?

Some kids have enough bullsh*t to deal with in school without feeling like they've to battle with their teachers too.

You are missing the point completely, Irish speaking schools only speak Irish, how is this wrong? would you not expect to be addressed in Irish?

MadsL

Taco Chips wrote: »

Or she should make a very minor compromise to get the best education available to her. What's your point?

I see. So her good education starts with swallowing her sense of identity and feeling ashamed that her name isn't Irish enough, and obeying authority who know better.

Great start for independent thought.

MurdyWurdy

I wouldn't be too happy about it, tbh but maybe that's just how they do things. If they do it for everyone then I guess she's not being singled out.

I knew a girl called Joy who went to a convent school for a while, the nuns refused to call her her name because it was a pagan name and instead called her a female saints name - whichever one's day was closest to the day they were speaking to her. That to me is even weirder.

The_Nipper_One

Scortho wrote: »

Yike nalin. Chances are they won't do anything to that name as its nowhere near an irish name.

That's my point. A name is a name, it is assigned to an entity and is specific to that entity.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Identity is a huge deal.

Identity is. Being called by your Irish name in a Gaelscoil isn't IMO

WayneMolloy

MadsL wrote: »

I see. So her good education starts with swallowing her sense of identity and feeling ashamed that her name isn't Irish enough, and obeying authority who know better.

Great start for independent thought.

Send her to an English speaking school if it irks you so much.

endacl

MadsL wrote: »

I see. So her good education starts with swallowing her sense of identity and feeling ashamed that her name isn't Irish enough, and obeying authority who know better.

Great start for independent thought.

Or you could offer a little guidance around overreacting to percieved attacks on identity? I don't know what your daughter's name is. In English, Irish, or Klingon. Yet her sense of herself remains, I presume, entirely intact? She'll likely take her lead from her mother. If you confirm its a big deal, then a big deal it will forever be...

MadsL

HondaSami wrote: »

You are missing the point completely, Irish speaking schools only speak Irish, how is this wrong? would you not expect to be addressed in Irish?

You can't address me in Irish without changing my name?

I deal with bilingual people all the time, I don't start calling José Joseph when speaking English to him.

I find the double-standard about names insane. The English changed the placenames grrr!!!! Let's change Irish kids English names back to Irish - hurrah!!

ScumLord

Change her name to something Hindi and see if they can come up with an Irish version.

robinph

HondaSami wrote: »

You are missing the point completely, Irish speaking schools only speak Irish, how is this wrong? would you not expect to be addressed in Irish?

Someones name does not change just because of what language you are speaking in though.

If a Richard and Ricardo met in a pub they would merely comment of the curiosity of having different versions of the same name, but one would still be called Richard and the other Ricardo regardless of where the pub they were having a pint in was located or what language they happened to be chatting in.

[Deleted User]

I wonder would they change the name of someone called Mohammed for example? Or is it just names that are easy to change to Irish?

I've an Irish name. I'd be pretty pissed if my English speaking school tried to change it.

Taco Chips

MadsL wrote: »

I see. So her good education starts with swallowing her sense of identity and feeling ashamed that her name isn't Irish enough, and obeying authority who know better.

Great start for independent thought.

Gross exaggeration much?

Your name is a small part of your identity. Much more important is your personality, who you're friends are etc... I don't see that being "swallowed" nor is she being made to feel "ashamed" of them.

It's a traditional thing. In primary school we were all addressed by our Irish names on the role. It was absolutely no big deal in the slightest. Most of us liked hearing the alternative. Added another layer to our identity if anything.

Lelantos

MadsL wrote: »

You can't address me in Irish without changing my name?

I deal with bilingual people all the time, I don't start calling José Joseph when speaking English to him.

I find the double-standard about names insane. The English changed the placenames grrr!!!! Let's change Irish kids English names back to Irish - hurrah!!

Then you go to the school, tell them her name & forbid them from changing it under any circumstances, problem solved

HondaSami

MadsL wrote: »

You can't address me in Irish without changing my name?

I deal with bilingual people all the time, I don't start calling José Joseph when speaking English to him.

I find the double-standard about names insane. The English changed the placenames grrr!!!! Let's change Irish kids English names back to Irish - hurrah!!

I don't get you tbh, she is attending an Irish speaking school and they are addressing her in her Irish name, this is what i would expect if i sent my kids to an Irish speaking school.
They have not changed her name, they are using the Irish version, why is it a problem? if they were speaking english in and Irish speaking school it would be more worrying imo.

Rayne Wooney

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wonder would they change the name of someone called Mohammed for example? Or is it just names that are easy to change to Irish?

I've an Irish name. I'd be pretty pissed if my English speaking school tried to change it.

Generally it's only the names that can be changed in to Irish that are changed, Craig for example would not be changed but if Craig had a second name that could be changed, for example Mooney his name in an Irish school would be Craig Ó Maoinigh.