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Chances of being killed in the PSNI?

MaxPSNI

After telling people I'm joining the PSNI, I've had nothing but strong advice to reconsider due to car bombs and shootings. This doesn't worry me; what does worry me is the effect it has on my family/friends who are concerned. I was wondering if anyone had any statistics from the past few years of how many officers died per year? Are they actually that common or is it partly due to the media?

My other question is: are Catholics targeted?

Thank you for the help.

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topcatcbr

There are many Irish catholic members and if its safe enough for them it should be ok for you. Like everything it comes with an amount of risk. It is only you can decide if its too much for you.

Are they still recruiting. What's age limit.

MaxPSNI

topcatcbr wrote: »

There are many Irish catholic members and if its safe enough for them it should be ok for you. Like everything it comes with an amount of risk. It is only you can decide if its too much for you.

Are they still recruiting. What's age limit.

But that's my question - is it safe for them? I understand there is risk - I wanted to know how much risk, otherwise it's difficult to make a rational decision.

It's anticipated to open this year.

topcatcbr

MaxPSNI wrote: »

But that's my question - is it safe for them? I understand there is risk - I wanted to know how much risk, otherwise it's difficult to make a rational decision.

It's anticipated to open this year. Not sure about the age limit but I'm 21 so I assume it will be fine.

How long is a piece of string. I'd say worse than crossing road but not as bad as fighting in Afghanistan.

Seriously the danger level rises and falls and it's hard to predict but I'd doubt it's any more dangerous than working in construction during the boom.

I'd say if that's what you want to do then do it. You can quit if it doesn't suit you.

MaxPSNI

topcatcbr wrote: »

How long is a piece of string. I'd say worse than crossing road but not as bad as fighting in Afghanistan.

Seriously the danger level rises and falls and it's hard to predict but I'd doubt it's any more dangerous than working in construction during the boom.

I'd say if that's what you want to do then do it. You can quit if it doesn't suit you.

Sorry could you please edit your first post so my quote is not in it as I've made changes due to security threats. Thanks!

Also, does anyone have official statistics of deaths per year?

tbh

MaxPSNI wrote: »

Sorry could you please edit your first post so my quote is not in it as I've made changes due to security threats. Thanks!

Also, does anyone have official statistics of deaths per year?

I hope you're not hoping to become a detective......

http://www.psni.police.uk/deaths_cy.pdf

Goonerdee

MaxPSNI wrote: »

Sorry could you please edit your first post so my quote is not in it as I've made changes due to security threats. Thanks!

Also, does anyone have official statistics of deaths per year?

At the time of P.C. Ronan Kerr's murder 14 PSNI officers had died, 2 terrorist related killings, 5 road accidents on duty and the others deaths either accidents travelling to/from work or death by illness on police property.

Age limit was 57, NI follows the age discrimination act which means an adult can't be discriminated against because of their age, but must pass a fitness test.

Goonerdee

MaxPSNI wrote: »

But that's my question - is it safe for them? I understand there is risk - I wanted to know how much risk, otherwise it's difficult to make a rational decision.

It's anticipated to open this year.

As far as I know, you serve in a different area than you come from, so unless you make it obvious you are a police officer it is quite safe for a Catholic officer to remain living in a Nationalist/Republican area.

coolemon

I dont see why the chances of death are your main concern here. Obviously the chances of deliberate death are very low for a PSNI officer, as it is for the Gardai. But if you want to make a career of it then who knows where things might be in five years time, or longer.

I think militant republicanism is growing and will continue to grow in the short to medium term, which will increase the riskis involved.

What you should be worried about is the damage to your lifestyle. The paranoia, the looking under your car every morning with a mirror, the looking over your shoulder as you walk the streets, the changing of address and home every while.

That is what your decision should be based upon. Imagine bringing a family up with that sort of fear and suspicion. Not good I would think. And not worth it.

MaxPSNI

tbh wrote: »

I hope you're not hoping to become a detective......

http://www.psni.police.uk/deaths_cy.pdf

Hi, thanks mate, I did see that but I don't think it's total deaths?

Still, it is useful and clearly in the past few years deaths from the security situation have been very, very low. I'll show that to family/friends for some reassurance!

Goonerdee wrote: »

so unless you make it obvious you are a police officer it is quite safe.

What do you mean by that, specifically?

Thanks for the reply.

MaxPSNI

coolemon wrote: »

I dont see why the chances of death are your main concern here. Obviously the chances of deliberate death are very low for a PSNI officer, as it is for the Gardai. But if you want to make a career of it then who knows where things might be in five years time, or longer.

I think militant republicanism is growing and will continue to grow in the short to medium term, which will increase the riskis involved.

What you should be worried about is the damage to your lifestyle. The paranoia, the looking under your car every morning with a mirror, the looking over your shoulder as you walk the streets, the changing of address and home every while.

That is what your decision should be based upon. Imagine bringing a family up with that sort of fear and suspicion. Not good I would think. And not worth it.

Not worth it in your opinion, and I can understand that. It's definitely worth it for me but I do feel a bit guilty to my family.

topcatcbr

MaxPSNI wrote: »

Not worth it in your opinion, and I can understand that. It's definitely worth it for me but I do feel a bit guilty to my family.

Then there's your answer. Anything further is opinion. It's your opinion that matters. Your an adult and your family will get use to it.

MaxPSNI

topcatcbr wrote: »

Then there's your answer. Anything further is opinion. It's your opinion that matters. Your an adult and your family will get use to it.

Yeah you're completely right, but I just wanted statistical facts to give them peace of mind. The link above will be useful for that, thanks for the help.

GRMA

Dont overlook the fact that the relationship between loyalists and the PSNI has deteriorated a fair bit in the last while... they call them the "PSNIRA" now (seriously)

As for your other questions about catholics being targeted, well the media try to make it out like the PSNI people killed in the past few years were targeted by dissidents BECAUSE they were catholic... reality is is that catholics are not targeted because of their religion (although keep in mind my first point about loyalists?) but they are easier for them to target because they may live in nationalist areas and have nationalist acquaintances who can provide info to the killers etc

Remember though that crap may kick off again down the road, its still volatile enough below the surface.

Personally I'd recommend getting a job where you don't have to check under your car every time you or your family go to use it.

Or maybe (depending where in Ireland you are from) you could join the police in Britain or maybe the Gardaí in a few years?

HighburyLad

Being a police officer in Northern Ireland is different from being an officer within mainland UK always remember that if you join you are always a target, and always will be, no point in bull ****ting anyone, as long as you know what your getting into, it's not for everyone, mentally too, the PSNI are the only police service that carries guns due to the threat from both sides of the fence, you will always have to be vigilant and being a police officer anywhere has no time off, your a cop 24/7, and even more so here, NI is a very small place always remember that, you'll be hated by some of the public and celebrated by few, and that's the way it is here, Once you become a cop religion doesn't matter if you have that crest on your head, to which many who hate the police as a body see it as the same as the RUC, you will be a target, and that's the way it is and always will be no matter how hard people try and make things change.

You always hear about how the rest of the UK do it in the news and articles concerning policing matters, only thing is, NI is a different kettle of fish when it comes to policing, Scotland England and Wales you will get a far more rounded experience within policing I.e. your typical neighbourhood policing, here you will experience far more in anti terrorism I.e. riots etc and of course the constant bomb threats, also ask anybody that is a current serving officer they will tell you that here we're about 10 years behind in our paper and policing work and the resources that the PSNI have at their disposal compared to say England

I'm an aspiring cop myself so I'm not trying to put anyone off just telling people what I have always been told so when it happens its not as big a shock to some who go in completely unguided, I mean i would go as far to say its my "dream job" and I don't like that term as I feel it's over used within the police recruitment circles as many end up leaving because its not what the expected or had in mind, I get told these things all the time by family who are retired or current serving members, and it's just to be realistic but I was always told it can be the most rewarding and satisfying of jobs, and never join for the sake of money, yeah it's decent pay, and long term wise too, but you can go into public and private jobs were you can earn more money for less of the hassle, lol that's just what I've been told and how I feel about the job, all I can say for me when it comes to that day marching out of the depot I will feel an overwhelming sense of self pride lol

gigity gigity

I agree with GRMA in relation to the reference to loyalists, if they kick of and start targeting officers then there would be very few places to feel safe. Last time that I had applied (through a mutual friend whom i had told in confidence) a couple of "loyalists" found out, I feel uneasy that they even know what i intended to do (even though on the surface they appear to be sound) and I know that I couldn't trust them as far as I can throw them. The thought that they know so much about me (where i live etc) makes me feel uneasy and I haven't even joined yet! I think things are going to get worse here, I hope they dont but I think they will. At the minute its safe to say that dissidents consider any catholic in the police a traitor and if loyalists join the band wagon the you can rest assured that they would target catholic officers in "their" police force.

Remmy

In reference to people who would not be from the North (from the Mainland or the republic) is it possible to mask the fact that you are a police officer and/or your religion?

Goonerdee

What I mean is, only tell immediate family you are applying to join the police, when your in if a stranger asks what you do for a living, make up a job or use an old job, when checking under your car try and be discreet about it, do not travel to/from your house in uniform. Things like that.

gigity gigity

Remmy you can work in the north and travel to the republic on a daily basis if you want, however you cannot take your weapon with you, that would have to stay in a station before the border. If you mean is it possible to live in the north and mask it for ever then I would say no you cannot, there will always be a neighbour who will suss it out or people in a social circle who will wonder why you work long nights, holidays etc.

kerry4sam

Obviously pending where you would be stationed in the North; but would it be done by current members to live somewhere in Dublin and commute up and down? The roads are good in fairness so travel-time would not be a problem. Would that make personal safety issues somewhat better when not living in the vicinity of work?!

Goonerdee

kerry4sam wrote: »

Obviously pending where you would be stationed in the North; but would it be done by current members to live somewhere in Dublin and commute up and down? The roads are good in fairness so travel-time would not be a problem. Would that make personal safety issues somewhat better when not living in the vicinity of work?!

You'd be unarmed and there is only a number of border crossings you could use. I think that would be even more dangerous.

Gee-22

I agree it will add to the danger.

To head back to the Republic of Ireland you will clearly have to travel through boarder areas, which carry a greater opportunity for an attack.

Anyway, considering the length of shifts at the moment you would barely be home before you would have to head back to work.

paulgalway

Goonerdee wrote: »

What I mean is, only tell immediate family you are applying to join the police, when your in if a stranger asks what you do for a living, make up a job or use an old job, when checking under your car try and be discreet about it, do not travel to/from your house in uniform. Things like that.

Not sure if this still applies:-

I believe that in the past; especially during the height of the 'Troubles', security personnel from the north would have to inform their superiors when travelling south. Superiors would then inform the Garda.

Had a relative in RAF in Belfast in the past, and this was the process they had to follow.

Again, I don't know if this still applies.

HighburyLad

If your from the south and got into the PSNI I don't think it would be pragmatic to live down south and just travel to and from work, one safety and two the travelling with the shift work that will be entailed will I'm almost certain knock ten years of your life lol, it would be just a case of relocating up here, and as far as I know if your in uniform or working and heading down south, AGS would be notified of your presence purely to the fact you would be looking for they're cooperation be it on a certain work related matter or whatever, however going down south on your own time be it for a holiday or a concert or a rugby game etc no you don't need to inform anyone.

On the subject related to this thread anyone interested in the history of the police service within Northern Ireland, and I mean the RIC, RUC and the PSNI more so the latter, a good book to read is
"The thin green line" takes you through the history of the RIC and RUC right up to the formation of the PSNI, it's not politically biased just factual accounts and the history of policing within primarily Ulster and to a lesser extent Ireland as a whole, very interesting read and puts in perspective a lot of things

BoutYe

MaxPSNI wrote: »

After telling people I'm joining the PSNI, I've had nothing but strong advice to reconsider due to car bombs and shootings. This doesn't worry me; what does worry me is the effect it has on my family/friends who are concerned. I was wondering if anyone had any statistics from the past few years of how many officers died per year? Are they actually that common or is it partly due to the media?

My other question is: are Catholics targeted?

Thank you for the help.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking how many die in general i.e work related / health related / other - or are you asking how many die as a result of violence?

And in relation to are catholics targeted - ALL police officers are targeted.

Here is a simple rule to follow - Stop telling people what you want to do!!! Don't tell ANYBODY who does not need to know. If you want people to know what you are doing then this is not the job for you.

Goonerdee

There are members of my family I wont tell, because they either have dodgy friends or big mouths. So I definately wont be telling strangers, only five people know I have applied in the past, three are immediate family and two are police officers.

Canyon86

Thinking about applying and hopefully becoming a psni officer.

But I m from down south (Cork)

so I am worried about the other factors..

Local gardai i know have said to stay away!!

HighburyLad

Canyon86 wrote: »

Thinking about applying and hopefully becoming a psni officer.

But I m from down south (Cork)

so I am worried about the other factors..

Local gardai i know have said to stay away!!

I think it's a good thing if you were to apply and get in, a bit of diversity and all that, but this is the same for everyone who wants to apply, and I've been told this constantly, there is a severe threat the highest since the Omagh bombing and this is from a close source, you will be a target no matter what colour, creed or religion you belong to, when you become a peeler there is no barriers in that sense your all the same, a brotherhood of green lol, I could believe guards would say stay away there's been virtually no transfers and any that have have been short lived up here, you would be seen as traitor to dissidents as such if ever found out, and that's just being honest bud, I think it's a good idea to apply, if the guards were recruiting now I would be applying from up here, though my cousin from here is a guard down south and loves it bar from the destruction that's going on with the AGS which is crazy, but up here is very different from down south, in respect to the sacrifices you would make and the life you would lead with vigilance, I personally wouldn't allow it to deter me, but don't apply without all the information, from what I've heard the guards are in disarray down there so it could be a wait for them to open the doors to templemore lol

Canyon86

HighburyLad wrote: »

I think it's a good thing if you were to apply and get in, a bit of diversity and all that, but this is the same for everyone who wants to apply, and I've been told this constantly, there is a severe threat the highest since the Omagh bombing and this is from a close source, you will be a target no matter what colour, creed or religion you belong to, when you become a peeler there is no barriers in that sense your all the same, a brotherhood of green lol, I could believe guards would say stay away there's been virtually no transfers and any that have have been short lived up here, you would be seen as traitor to dissidents as such if ever found out, and that's just being honest bud, I think it's a good idea to apply, if the guards were recruiting now I would be applying from up here, though my cousin from here is a guard down south and loves it bar from the destruction that's going on with the AGS which is crazy, but up here is very different from down south, in respect to the sacrifices you would make and the life you would lead with vigilance, I personally wouldn't allow it to deter me, but don't apply without all the information, from what I've heard the guards are in disarray down there so it could be a wait for them to open the doors to templemore lol

Thanks for your very informative and interesting reply Highbury!

I agree with the majority of you said!

And you are rite with the state of AGS at the moment.
I think future recruitment will happen on a much smaller scale with tiny classes going into templemore..

I understand that up the north any PSNI officer will be a target alrite,the nature of the job i suppose unfortunately.

Are you applying for the next campaign in the PSNI yes?

kerry4sam

Canyon86 wrote: »

Thinking about applying and hopefully becoming a psni officer.

But I m from down south (Cork)

so I am worried about the other factors..

Local gardai i know have said to stay away!!

I won't be applying for full-time in An Garda Síochána but seriously looking into the PSNI and am being told the same as you re:not applying, repeatedly. Still won't ever apply for full-time Guards in the South, but no harm in applying and hopefully making interview stage for the PSNI and explaining my reasons.
Decisions, decisions.

gigity gigity

Out of curiosity, what reasons do people give you against joining?