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Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

aloyisious

I'm a little bit worried about this latest move in the ongoing face-off between the Minister, the Garda Commissioner and the GSaI. While it may have been an affront to the dignity of the Minister and the Commisssioner for the four Sgts to get up and walk out of their conference when those two worthies appeared on the conference stage, and there might be something in the Garda Regulations to cover an act of direct ill-discipline by any Garda to the Minister or the Commissioner, I personally don's see any member of a union or Rep Body conference leaving it in peaceful silent protest when some-one he/she doesn't wish to listen to enter's as being anything other than a peaceful objection, unless it is now obligatory under statute law to attend such a conference at all times.

I'd be alarmed at the thought that the two senior members of the establishment above are picking a row with the Garda representative bodies, particularly if it's an attempt to provoke some sort of Blue-Flu incident, or worse. Mr Shatter is also the Minister for Defence and I've felt it wrong for one minister to hold both (Defence of the Republic) portfolios, seeing as how, if there was some sort of major Govt/Garda rep Body clash, the Army could be called into service on the streets if there was a sudden lack of Gardai there.

I hear that there would be an SC on any disciplinary Board set up to listen and rule in any case against the four Sgts, so hopefully he/she would advise that it would be unseemly, de jure and de facto, for the Minister or Commissioner to proceed against anpone walking out of a conference.

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JRant

tayto lover wrote: »

I just happen to care. I'm all for equal rights but it seems some are not.

But you don't have equal rights with your employer though. You have some rights protected under law but this idea of equality is a non-runner as far as I can see.

If you want to dictate your own pay then start your own business.

tayto lover

JRant wrote: »

But you don't have equal rights with your employer though. You have some rights protected under law but this idea of equality is a non-runner as far as I can see.

If you want to dictate your own pay then start your own business.

I have my own business.

So you are saying that some representatives are more equal than others then. Very Orwellian.

Big Davey

Should the fatties behind their desks in the Gardai get the same as the "super tough, life risking " gardai that the fools around here are blabbering about ? How many pen pushing gardai risk their lives ?

Boombastic

Big Davey wrote: »

Should the fatties behind their desks in the Gardai get the same as the "super tough, life risking " gardai that the fools around here are blabbering about ? How many pen pushing gardai risk their lives ?

All of them, How dare you question it. I heard from a nameless guy on the radio the islands are the most dangerous. There was a whistle stolen last week. They deserve their extra allowances :pac:

frankie_fisher

i dont care about shatters personal likability factor , im glad we have a minister for justice who is pretty indifferent to public opinion , its what is needed to tackle the over entitled AGS , the alternative is some bandwagon jumping populist who likes to engage in endless eulogising of the so called " frontline "

tayto lover

Big Davey wrote: »

Should the fatties behind their desks in the Gardai get the same as the "super tough, life risking " gardai that the fools around here are blabbering about ? How many pen pushing gardai risk their lives ?

Don't all the prisoners and criminals get the same food in jail

Hitchens

JUSTICE MINISTER ALAN Shatter has said today that an “unexpected number” of gardaí accessed the PULSE computer system in relation to the arrest of Clare Daly in January for suspected drink driving.

Fred Cohen

Boombastic wrote: »

He could always just cut their wages

Been there, done that, bought the anti stab vest.

3ndahalfof6

As was said earlier, they signed up and they contributed to a core belief, now they want to side step it, munching on spit pork or roasted frog, how dare you how very dare you.

frankie_fisher

Hitchens wrote: »

JUSTICE MINISTER ALAN Shatter has said today that an “unexpected number” of gardaí accessed the PULSE computer system in relation to the arrest of Clare Daly in January for suspected drink driving.

that stitch up failed but mud still sticks so the guards got a small victory

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

that stitch up failed but mud still sticks so the guards got a small victory

Your first 2 posts are off topic (don't know what your posts before that were like :pac:).
Could you stick to the current topic please.

scwazrh

If they are not happy with the wages, change jobs.I would love to join the Garda but I simply cannot live on that size of a wage so I have to do a different job.This is another case of public sector workers wanting job security , pension and a good weekly wage.You cannot have it all..

Boombastic

Current Topic: John Redmond was talking to himself :pac:

AGSI pulls out of Croke Park talks
.....................
General secretary of the association John Redmond said today he did not think it would re-enter the talks. Members were being asked to “give and give”, he said.

They had attended five meetings and there was nothing being given by officials, he added............................Mr Collins also called on AGSI to re-enter the talks, saying its members “will be best served by the organisation being at the table as decisions are made that will affect their future”

JRant

tayto lover wrote: »

I have my own business.

So you are saying that some representatives are more equal than others then. Very Orwellian.

Fair play to you and I hope the future is bright for your business.

That's not what I'm saying at all but you know that already. There is no such thing as equality between employers and employees.

dj jarvis

unfortunately , the only outcome of this will be that the career of whom ever stuck their head above the wall these days will be cul-de-sacked in a heart beat.

right or wrong , the Garda chief and the minister of the day will make a point of maintaining discipline , they have to

and this caused by the AGSI, knowing they have not a leg to stand on during pay talks - fanning the fire of discontent , rabble rousing some into action , and this action could cost them their careers

because getting your career parked for disobedience is akin to a life long pay cut.

frankie_fisher

tayto lover wrote: »

Your first 2 posts are off topic (don't know what your posts before that were like :pac:).
Could you stick to the current topic please.

sure thing AGS shill

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

sure thing AGS shill

Thank you and yes I am law abiding

frankie_fisher

scwazrh wrote: »

If they are not happy with the wages, change jobs.I would love to join the Garda but I simply cannot live on that size of a wage so I have to do a different job.This is another case of public sector workers wanting job security , pension and a good weekly wage.You cannot have it all..

you couldnt live on 56 k per year salary ( exlc overtime ) and an average pension of 600 per week ?

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

unfortunately , the only outcome of this will be that the career of whom ever stuck their head above the wall these days will be cul-de-sacked in a heart beat.

right or wrong , the Garda chief and the minister of the day will make a point of maintaining discipline , they have to

and this caused by the AGSI, knowing they have not a leg to stand on during pay talks - fanning the fire of discontent , rabble rousing some into action , and this action could cost them their careers

because getting your career parked for disobedience is akin to a life long pay cut.

No mention of the Commissioner being a Government man appointed by Shatter probably.

frankie_fisher

tayto lover wrote: »

Thank you and yes I am law abiding

not to mention smug

Boombastic

frankie_fisher wrote: »

not to mention smug

Wouldn't you be on a €600/week pension

frankie_fisher

see bottom of table for garda pay excluding overtime , that was in 2008 prior to the campaign of cuts which for guards would be no greater than 15% exclcuding pension levy

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

dj jarvis

funny , but for all the poor mouthing i hear coming from the Garda "union" , i have yet , ever come across a garda , of any rank who lives in a council house , always private estates

but i know of plenty of soldiers who do.
I think knowing when you should keep your mouth closed and take it like the rest of us should be understood by the AGSI

they are far from badly paid - sure another cut is a kick in the sack
but we are all getting a kick in the sack - welcome to the party AGSI , let me be the first to issue a welcome kick

scwazrh

frankie_fisher wrote: »

you couldnt live on 56 k per year salary ( exlc overtime ) and an average pension of 600 per week ?

€56k a year is approx €900 / wk nett. Very hard to have a nice lifestyle for a family on that.The pension part would be nice though.

To be fair afaik 56k a year is not the average wage for copper , its a good bit less.

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

Wouldn't you be on a €600/week pension

Ha ha you accused me of being a nurse on the other thread.
Make up your mind instead of losing bit.

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

No mention of the Commissioner being a Government man appointed by Shatter probably.

but neither man wrote the 2005 garda act , it national law , it has to be upheld,
the minister would be hung out to dry if he did not enforce the law.

so even if he was politically placed , it makes no difference , they have to act , so you statement makes no sense

frankie_fisher

scwazrh wrote: »

€56k a year is approx €900 / wk nett. Very hard to have a nice lifestyle for a family on that.The pension part would be nice though.

To be fair afaik 56k a year is not the average wage for copper , its a good bit less.

shows the level of delusion which still exists in this country when people continue to believe that 900 per week NET is a modest income , where else would modestly skilled ( for the most part ) people like guards recieve such a wage ?

1080 was the average wage ( excluding overtime ) in 2008 as shown in that CSO report , work out the cuts since then and you have your average wage for 2013 , pretty simple

Paulzx

dj jarvis wrote: »

funny , but for all the poor mouthing i hear coming from the Garda "union" , i have yet , ever come across a garda , of any rank who lives in a council house , always private estates
D

So you'd have a higher opinion of them if they lived in state provided housing estates rather than paying mortgages and buying their own houses?

/logic fail

dj jarvis

scwazrh wrote: »

€56k a year is approx €900 / wk nett. Very hard to have a nice lifestyle for a family on that.The pension part would be nice though.

To be fair afaik 56k a year is not the average wage for copper , its a good bit less.

how much less , and how do you know can i ask?
plenty of guess work , but no real figures

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

funny , but for all the poor mouthing i hear coming from the Garda "union" , i have yet , ever come across a garda , of any rank who lives in a council house , always private estates

but i know of plenty of soldiers who do.
I think knowing when you should keep your mouth closed and take it like the rest of us should be understood by the AGSI

they are far from badly paid - sure another cut is a kick in the sack
but we are all getting a kick in the sack - welcome to the party AGSI , let me be the first to issue a welcome kick

Sly digs at the Garda are only highlighting the fact that you are losing the argument

Thought you would have stuck it out a bit better.