Morbert wrote: » What is 22:28-29 saying?
Masteroid wrote: » You could try a little of that yourself. The bible doesn't describe rape, it prescribes it. Lot, the only man in Sodom worth saving, offers his betrothed daughters to be raped by the crowd as a solution to their hostility.
Masteroid wrote: » The leaders of God's chosen people prescribe murder, kidnap and rape as a solution to the Benjamite problem.
Masteroid wrote: » Moses, God's chosen representative to the Jews, prescribes murder and rape as revenge.
Masteroid wrote: » And God prescribes murder, rape and something that looks a lot like child abuse as a punishment for not being Jewish.
Masteroid wrote: » The bible doesn't just condone rape, it demands it. It's almost as if the bible was written by Satan himself in order to lead us into evil practices such as genocide, rape and paedophilia.
FISMA wrote: » Are you saying that God violates a particular Law of Physics, or all of them??
Peregrinus wrote: » Only if you assume that every time the bible describes rape, or every time the bible describes any individual condoning rape, that is the same thing as the bible condoning rape. On the other hand, if your reading comprehension is a little bit above this level, the proof doesn't seem quite so convincing.
Brian Shanahan wrote: » I have demonstrated it repeatedly.
Brian Shanahan wrote: » A universe governed by physical laws cannot exist with a being which is omnipotent.
philologos wrote: » It actually doesn't say that. I've responded to false claims about that passage at least five times on boards.ie now. Please read this post:http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=82000516
Brian Shanahan wrote: » As they say in mathematics Quad Erat Demonstrandum
JimiTime wrote: » You kidding me?? You say that the bible condones rape, and then don't refer to where this happens?
the bible condoning rape 1 wrote: genesis: 19:1 The two angels came to Sodom in the evening while1 Lot was sitting in the city’s gateway.2 When Lot saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face toward the ground. 19:2 He said,“Here, my lords, please turn aside to your servant’s house. Stay the night3 and wash your feet. Then you can be on your way early in the morning.”4 “No,” they replied,“we’ll spend the night in the town square.”5 19:3 But he urged6 them persistently, so they turned aside with him and entered his house. He prepared a feast for them, including bread baked without yeast, and they ate. 19:4 Before they could lie down to sleep,7 all the men – both young and old, from every part of the city of Sodom – surrounded the house.8 19:5 They shouted to Lot,9 “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so we can have sex10 with them!” 19:6 Lot went outside to them, shutting the door behind him. 19:7 He said,“No, my brothers! Don’t act so wickedly!11 19:8 Look, I have two daughters who have never had sexual relations with12 a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do to them whatever you please.13 Only don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection14 of my roof.”
the bible condoning rape 2 wrote: dges 21:10-24 NLT) So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan. The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse." Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
the bible condoning rape 3 wrote: (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT) They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho. Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
the bibe condoning rape 4 wrote: (Deuteronomy 20:10-14) As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
FISMA wrote: » Brian, If you're going to make such demands on others, practice what you preach. I have, in several posts, requested that you demonstrate which Laws of Physics God breaks.
marienbad wrote: » It does say go take women captive and makes them your wives ? correct ?
philologos wrote: » I honestly don't get what you're talking about lazygal. I've been more than straight on any of these objections. Most of these have been responded to on multiple occasions before. I'm going to ignore empty accusations like these from here on in. marienbad: that passage doesn't advocate rape either. The next chapter of Deuteronomy actually shows the Jewish law in respect to rape also. It was condemned. I've linked to a post where I discuss that.
philologos wrote: » How am I using it as a weapon? I'm simply responding to others who twist it to be used as a weapon. Its very disheartening to see this. As for being bold in my testimony I'm not even sure what you mean. My testimony is simple that I believe wholeheartedly in Jesus Christ, crucified and resurrected and I've certainly not held back on that.
philologos wrote: » I find it bizarre that the posters who claim that the Bible advocates rape don't use passages that actually discuss rape. It's equally bizarre considering that every Bible passage that refers to rape condemns it strongly. It's disheartening to see that instead of reading the Bible for themselves honestly that we're resorting to chestnuts that were answered several years ago on boards.ie.
Masteroid wrote: » Suppose that Satan wrote his own version of the bible. Let me ask you, and please, anyone, try to answer this question honestly: If Satan had inspired a bible to be written on his behalf in order that he may be glorified, in what qualitatively way would it differ from the bible inspired by God? If Satan wrote a bible, wouldn't he want to appear in the lead role? If you are honest, then you must concede that there is no happy ending to the bible. Unless of course you think that the destruction of the earth is something to be prayed for. Why would a right-thinking human being support a doctrine whose fulfillment depends on the total destruction of mankind? Could Satan have come up with anything worse? If so, then what?
Sacksian wrote: » Deuteronomy 22 clearly does condemn various forms of rape and sets out punishments too. Most notably, 22:28-29, which says that if a man rapes an unmarried virgin, he has to pay off her father and then marry her. Uncompromising stuff.
JimiTime wrote: » You kidding me?? You say that the bible condones rape, and then don't refer to where this happens? Eh, I don't think its Phil that needs to put up just yet. Present your case for your accusation (Namely, that The Bible condones rape), and Phil said he'd deal with it. You either have the passages in mind, and you can provide them, or you are just parroting something you probably heard from someone. So yeah, put up or shut up;):)
PopePalpatine wrote: » I dunno about you, but forcibly marrying women sounds kinda rape-ish to me, considering that marriage probably led to sex in their time.
Fanny Cradock wrote: » What unfulfilled prophecies are you talking about?
philologos wrote: » Can you point out where rape is mentioned in that passage? Because as far as I can tell Genesis 34 strongly condemns rape, Deuteronomy 22 showed that rape was prohibited under the Torah law, and the passage just before the one you quoted showed that rape was a shameful thing in all of Israel (Judges 19:1-29), it was considered such an outrage that the rest of the tribes of Benjamin went to war with Israel (Judges 20). I can also point out that when King David's son raped Tamar (2 Samuel 13:1-22) it is regarded as a shameful thing that doesn't take place in Israel (2 Samuel 13:12). The Bible in every case where rape is mentioned condemns it.
PopePalpatine wrote: » .
marienbad wrote: » Either put up or shut up and answer the question - you know full well the passages reffered to.
Judges 21:10-24, New Living Translation wrote: So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan. The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse." Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
