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Child Item

Woman: Antidepressants led to suicides of relatives

Fromthetrees

A mother who believes her son was turned into a suicidal killer by the side-effects of antidepressants has lost another family member to suicide while he was also on antidepressants.

Leonie Fennell has been campaigning to raise awareness about the potential side-effects of commonly prescribed SSRI antidepressants since her 22-year-old son, Shane Clancy, stabbed another young man to death, injured two others, and then killed himself in 2009.

She revealed the family is coming to terms with another death after her brother-in-law took his own life within a few months of beginning to take the same antidepressant, which he was prescribed after feeling low following heart surgery.

I'm of the opinion that we still don't completely understand the full effects that these drugs can have on people, both short and long term.

I also believe that pills are way over prescribed in this country.

What do ye think?

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Chuck Stone

Madam_X wrote: »

The big pharma conspiracy stuff is boring

You know that big pharma suppressed studies that showed AD's in a bad light? But hey, let's not let pesky critical medical research cast aspersions on a multi-billion dollar industry.

Selective reporting of clinical trial results may have adverse consequences for researchers, study participants, health care professionals, and patients.

Erick H. Turner, M.D., Annette M. Matthews, M.D., Eftihia Linardatos, B.S., Robert A. Tell, L.C.S.W., and Robert Rosenthal, Ph.D.
N Engl J Med 2008

That's not conspiratorial?

orestes

Not all anti-depressants are SSRI. I was perscribed SSRI medication (lexapro) a few years ago to help deal with depression, but it was explained to me very clearly by my doctor that that the medication was only to take the edge off so that I could work on getting well (counselling, exercise, etc.) and that they weren't a cure. If you're taking them and drinking heavily on them or sitting in your room all day every day or something like that then you're just messing with your brain chemistry and not doing yourself any favours. They do help, but they aren't a miracle cure by any means. Just based on my own experience of them though and the way my GP explained them to me.

scdublin

Fromthetrees wrote: »

I also believe that pills are way over prescribed in this country.

I 100% agree with this statement. I know so many people who have gone through a bad time and felt down, went to their doctors and mentioned it and been prescribed medication for it on the spot. I just don't feel comfortable about that considering the unknown effects of some of these pills, and also the fact that the person might not be depressed as such.

Obviously a person with a history of depression should be considered for these medications, especially if they feel it helps.

Da Shins Kelly

Anti-depressants can and do work. While I don't think they should ever be seen as a quick fix or the go-to solution for everyone, they often give people the lift they need so they can put a bit of distance between themselves and their illness to try and start figuring out what it is that has them feeling the way they do and get on the road to feeling better in the long run. Apart from in the cases of extreme mental illness, I don't think that medication is really a long-term thing for most people. It's just something to help them in the short term to get a bit of perspective so they can start to address their problems instead of just using medication as a way to feel better without actually confronting what it is that has them feeling that way.

It's probably worth mentioning too that just because one person had a bad experience on one brand of prescribed medication doesn't mean that everyone will. It often takes a bit of chopping and changing with medication to find the one that suits best with the least side-effects. It's not a one size fits all situation, you need to try and find the one that suits you as an individual.

Fromthetrees

scdublin wrote: »

I 100% agree with this statement. I know so many people who have gone through a bad time and felt down, went to their doctors and mentioned it and been prescribed medication for it on the spot. I just don't feel comfortable about that considering the unknown effects of some of these pills, and also the fact that the person might not be depressed as such.

Obviously a person with a history of depression should be considered for these medications, especially if they feel it helps.

We have one of the highest rates of suicide in Europe so there is without doubt something woefully wrong with the way we treat mental health here in Ireland.

In many ways we're just dealing with it by saying, here, take a pill, and relax while we cut funding to mental health services.

It's ridiculous.

Da Shins Kelly

Fromthetrees wrote: »

We have one of the highest rates of suicide in Europe so there is without doubt something woefully wrong with the way we treat mental health here in Ireland.

In many ways we're just dealing with it by saying, here, take a pill, and relax while we cut funding to mental health services.

It's ridiculous.

To be honest, I don't even think that there is that whole 'take and pill and feel better' attitude in Ireland (not like there is in the US anyway). I think the problem in Ireland lies more with people's reluctance to address mental health problems at all. The whole 'keep that to yourself' attitude.

P_1

Hang on a moment.

We have our powers that be clamping down on people's choices regarding nicotine, caffeine and alcohol (3 naturally occurring ingredients) consumption yet they're encouraging the consumption of these chemicals that make depressed people even more depressed.

Something is very wrong with this scenario.

Fromthetrees

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Anti-depressants can and do work. While I don't think they should ever be seen as a quick fix or the go-to solution for everyone, they often give people the lift they need so they can put a bit of distance between themselves and their illness to try and start figuring out what it is that has them feeling the way they do and get on the road to feeling better in the long run. Apart from in the cases of extreme mental illness, I don't think that medication is really a long-term thing for most people. It's just something to help them in the short term to get a bit of perspective so they can start to address their problems instead of just using medication as a way to feel better without actually confronting what it is that has them feeling that way.

It's probably worth mentioning too that just because one person had a bad experience on one brand of prescribed medication doesn't mean that everyone will. It often takes a bit of chopping and changing with medication to find the one that suits best with the least side-effects. It's not a one size fits all situation, you need to try and find the one that suits you as an individual.

That's absolutely the right thing to do in cases where people need it but the problem is do we need to 'experiment' with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Irish peoples brains every day?

Why are pills the first port of call with this?

Treatment must be made more individualised and by that I don't mean simply trying out different pills with different effects over the course of a year. I mean targeted ways to help a person on a personal level.

Fromthetrees

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

To be honest, I don't even think that there is that whole 'take and pill and feel better' attitude in Ireland (not like there is in the US anyway). I think the problem in Ireland lies more with people's reluctance to address mental health problems at all. The whole 'keep that to yourself' attitude.

I think it's more a lack of knowledge as a whole and by that I would include GP's too.

Victor

P_1 wrote: »

We have our powers that be clamping down on people's choices regarding nicotine, caffeine and alcohol (3 naturally occurring ingredients) consumption

Just because something is natural doesn't mean it is good for you. Fancy some mercury or arsenic? After heroin, alcohol is the most destructive drug out there. And anti-depressants are controlled a lot more than those three. Can you imagine if someone today invented a drug with the same effects / side effects as alcohol? They'd never get it licenced.

And there is nothing natural about the chemicals added to cigarettes, nor do you naturally find 24 can slabs growing on fruit trees.

yet they're encouraging the consumption of these chemicals that make depressed people even more depressed.

Read the thread.

dlofnep

Antidepressants are bollocks and make people worse in the long run. Any of my friends who have used them, are still on them - and are still bolloxed. I've suffered depression equal to anyone else, and I've never once thought that they would benefit me. I toughed it out, occupied my mind with hobbies, exercised to lift my spirits... Antidepressants only mask problems, they do not cure them.

P_1

Victor wrote: »

Just because something is natural doesn't mean it is good for you. Fancy some mercury or arsenic?

And there is nothing natural about the chemicals added to cigarettes, nor do you naturally find 24 can slabs growing on fruit trees.

I didn't mention cigarettes, I mentioned nicotine. Big difference.

Nicotine has been proven to help people, the problem with extracting it through cigarettes are the chemicals added to it. There have been more beneficial ways of extracting the nicotine for consumption that have been banned.

Similarly I mentioned alcohol, not 24 can slabs, again a massive difference.

planetX

They've been a disaster for 3 members of my family, one of whom is now dead. 2 are still recovering from the after effects of years on high doses, and are much improved by being completely off them. And they may not be addictive, but one in particular is extremely nasty to discontinue. I believe they're a way to get rid of the patient, an easy answer to a difficult problem.

ziggy23

I was prescribed anti-depressants a few times. My doctor hands them out like sweets. The last ones I was on made me like a zombie and if I had a few drinks even 1 or 2 beers I behaved very strangely. I don't take anything at the moment and feel much better. I still get low days but I can deal with them. I really feel anti-depressants are over prescribed in this country, plus people are given them and left to their own devices no real check ups done. The withdrawal symptoms if you stop taking them can be a bastard too I managed to wean myself off the last ones and minimise the withdrawal symptoms by taking Omega 3 supplements.

GalwayGuy2

To clarify a little bit, I think the pills can make you think about commiting suicide, but they don't actually make you commit suicide.

We have one of the highest rates of suicide in Europe so there is without doubt something woefully wrong with the way we treat mental health here in Ireland.

In many ways we're just dealing with it by saying, here, take a pill, and relax while we cut funding to mental health services.

It's ridiculous.

It'd be interesting to know if they were on pills themselves, or avoided seeking help.

Steve O

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Lots of misinformation, bolloxology and armchair doctors to follow.

Antidepressants work. Finding the one that works for you isn't always easy. GPS are mostly not the right people to turn to when antidepressants are needed.

100%

I wish I could afford them, but it does take time to find the right ones.

Steve O

dlofnep wrote: »

Antidepressants are bollocks and make people worse in the long run. Any of my friends who have used them, are still on them - and are still bolloxed. I've suffered depression equal to anyone else, and I've never once thought that they would benefit me. I toughed it out, occupied my mind with hobbies, exercised to lift my spirits... Antidepressants only mask problems, they do not cure them.

So much bull**** in one post. If you think "toughening up" or going to the gym for an hour is going to stop your depressive thoughts, you really don't know the true effects.

You gym for an hour, yea you feel great, You've worked hard, but guess what? Your mind continues on with the same hopelessness.

You go do your hobby, feel great, have a laugh. Guess what? Your mind goes into the same state.

You talk about masking problems? All of the above do. Anti-depressants gave me the ability to be able to sit down and relax, without letting the mind take over.

cassid

Specific Anti depressants can be used to treat chronic neuro pain. I suffer from a specific neuro condition that is pretty awful, started a specific anti-depressant which helped to block the pain receptors to my brain, so have a "normal" life for now.

dlofnep

Steve O wrote: »

So much bull**** in one post. If you think "toughening up" or going to the gym for an hour is going to stop your depressive thoughts, you really don't know the true effects.

You gym for an hour, yea you feel great, You've worked hard, but guess what? Your mind continues on with the same hopelessness.

You go do your hobby, feel great, have a laugh. Guess what? Your mind goes into the same state.

You talk about masking problems? All of the above do. Anti-depressants gave me the ability to be able to sit down and relax, without letting the mind take over.

Yeah that's great - enjoy being dependent on mood-altering drugs. I'll do fine without it.

Chuck Stone

seamus wrote: »

Actually I don't disagree at all that for many people they can work

And so can placebo except placebos are cheap and non-toxic with fewer side-effects.

Steve O

dlofnep wrote: »

Yeah that's great - enjoy being dependent on mood-altering drugs. I'll do fine without it.

Good man, hope it works out for you in the 19th century.

dlofnep

Steve O wrote: »

Good man, hope it works out for you in the 19th century.

It's working out just fine for me. The idea that I'm living in the 19th century because I'm not dependent on drugs is retarded. Depression is resolvable without mood-altering drugs. Keep masking your depression - whatever works for you.

Steve O

dlofnep wrote: »

It's working out just fine for me. The idea that I'm living in the 19th century because I'm not dependent on drugs is retarded. Depression is resolvable without mood-altering drugs. Keep masking your depression - whatever works for you.

The idea that you think you can mask it by "toughening up" shows the level of knowledge you have on the subject.

dlofnep

Steve O wrote: »

The idea that you think you can mask it by "toughening up" shows the level of knowledge you have on the subject.

It's not 'toughening up' - It's resolving your problems without resorting to drugs as a crutch. And go away - you're no more clued up on the issue than I am. I see all of my friends who are on antidepressants and it only makes them worse. They are completely dependent on them now to lead any sort of a life. I suffer with long-term illness and battle depression all the time. You're in no worse a position than I am. I still refuse to become dependent on a crutch like that.

Victor

ziggy23 wrote: »

The last ones I was on made me like a zombie and if I had a few drinks even 1 or 2 beers I behaved very strangely.

Never mix your drugs unless it has been OKEd by your doctor / pharmacist (there may still be interference). Alcohol interferes with many drugs, by occupying the receptors that the drug would normally occupy, thereby depriving the body of the drug's effect. When the alcohol wears out the drug's effect is then re-introduced, thereby creating a roller-coaster effect.

Alcohol can cause depression and it is a dangerous drug for the suicidally inclined.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

And so can placebo except placebo's are cheap and non-toxic with fewer side-effects.

Placebos are called placebos for a reason.

dlofnep wrote: »

Depression is resolvable without mood-altering drugs.

- for some people, not everyone.

Chuck Stone

Steve O wrote: »

Good man, hope it works out for you in the 19th century.

Actually a study found that exercise was as successful as the placebo effect AD's in treating depression.

Another study, published in the Archives of Internal Medicine in 1999, divided 156 men and women with depression into three groups. One group took part in an aerobic exercise program, another took the SSRI sertraline (Zoloft), and a third did both. At the 16-week mark, depression had eased in all three groups. About 60%–70% of the people in all three groups could no longer be classed as having major depression

[...]

A follow-up to that study found that exercise’s effects lasted longer than those of antidepressants. Researchers checked in with 133 of the original patients six months after the first study ended. They found that the people who exercised regularly after completing the study, regardless of which treatment they were on originally, were less likely to relapse into depression.

health.harvard.edu

starlings

dlofnep wrote: »

It's working out just fine for me. The idea that I'm living in the 19th century because I'm not dependent on drugs is retarded. Depression is resolvable without mood-altering drugs. Keep masking your depression - whatever works for you.

this is veering dangerously close to medical advice. Good for you keeping the black dog at bay dlofnep, but please remember that drugs are actually "whatever works" for some people. And you know what works for everyone? Getting a medical opinion from a medical doctor, and a second opinion if necessary.

phoenix999

Every person is different. My brother was deeply depressed and developed a horrible temper. He would fly off the handle at the drop of a hat. He refused to eat or go out and one time he nearly assualted my mother. The doctor prescribed him lexapro. He soon got his appetite back and within a few months was back to his old self. They also helped his anxiety. Any drug when its abused has the potential to do harm. But these drugs have a place along with other treatments. As far as I remember this lady's son had overdosed on this particular drug.

Ave Sodalis

I think some people need them, some people don't... but a lot of people think they need them when they don't as, like many have already said, they basically handouts for doctors.

The best is what happened me (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) when I went in and the doctor tried to push depression on me. I knew I wasn't depressed but he kept trying to tell me I was. I guess it's just an easy escape for the lazier doctors. Depression = treat with antidepressants = done!

dlofnep

starlings wrote: »

this is veering dangerously close to medical advice. Good for you keeping the black dog at bay dlofnep, but please remember that drugs are actually "whatever works" for some people. And you know what works for everyone? Getting a medical opinion from a medical doctor, and a second opinion if necessary.

It's not medical advice. It's my view on the issue based on what I have seen in my life-time.

I'm not disputing that anti-depressants can and have helped people. I however take issue with them being used as a crutch every single time someone feels depressed. It resorts to dependence on the drug, when there are a thousand and one ways depression can be combated alternatively.

It does not cure depression, it masks it. I stand by that statement. I also think it's often a very lazy solution to the problem of depression. Someone walks into their GP's office, says they are depressed and are handed pills. It's just as bad as giving someone antibiotics for a cold. These issues must be exhausted fully before making someone dependent on drugs.