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Child Item

UK teen commits suicide after being brought to court over 50p of cannabis

Temaz

Tragic case.

A 17 Year old Head Boy and England under 19 Lacrosse international who was summoned to court for 50p worth of cannabis – has committed suicide after fearing that it would block his chances of working in America.

Edward Thornber, 17 was on holiday with his friends in Newquay in 2011 when he was stopped by police and found to be in possession of 50p worth of cannabis. For those unaware of just how little this is look at your little finger nail and then think smaller. It was the second time he had been stopped under the same circumstances.

http://norml-uk.org/2013/02/britains-cannabis-policy-more-harmful-than-drug/

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HondaSami

Grayson wrote: »

He was found dead with a note and the summons.

A note to his parents, did it say this is the reason he killed himself?

Corkbah

Grayson wrote: »

So, if i catch you telling a small fib and give you a sound trashing for telling a lie, it's all your fault?

well...if I lied then I started the whole thing (as to whether I deserved a trashing ...that depends on the lie....if it was a husband lying to a wife saying he never slept with that girl ....then that deserves a trashing, if it was a guy telling his wife/girlfriend that the shop didn't have any flowers in the shop on his way home so he couldn't buy her flowers ...then that doesn't really deserve a trashing)

in this case ...the kid had been previously in trouble with the police for using weed - he continued to use it ...knowing he wanted to work in USA and getting caught a second time would have resulted in his career ruined ... while I have sympathy for the family, the police are not the ONLY ones who get the blame.

The Police in this case have said they were in the wrong, but so are the parents, so is the boy himself, so are the judicial system, so is the visa entry requirements for the USA, so is society in general !! ...

where was the support network - did the boy look for support ?? did he know it was available to him ? was there any opportunity for him to move away from drugs ? did he want to ? ... so who do we blame ???

In my opinion the whole event would not have happened if the boy had not used drugs - he couldn't have been caught and would not have had his career (potentially) ruined because of his actions - people these days refuse to take responsibility for their own actions .... something which I believe is very important in life.

juice1304

Corkbah wrote: »

In my opinion the whole event would not have happened if the boy had not used drugs - he couldn't have been caught and would not have had his career (potentially) ruined because of his actions - people these days refuse to take responsibility for their own actions .... something which I believe is very important in life.

If it was'nt a criminal act then none of this would have happened. People make mistakes it dose'nt mean it is justifiable to ruin their life's because of it he was a child ffs with dreams and ambitions.

Corkbah

juice1304 wrote: »

If it was'nt a criminal act then none of this would have happened. People make mistakes it dose'nt mean it is justifiable to ruin their life's because of it he was a child ffs with dreams and ambitions.

and a society without laws ....

we are only responsible for our own actions ...if you want to change the laws ... get enough people to support you ...get elected and change the law - popular opinion is that weed and other drugs are illegal ...so possession and usage of such drugs remain a criminal act.

until society says they are acceptable .... that will not change...so at this moment in time...its an illegal act and the kid knew this....making his own decisions which affect his own life.

[Deleted User]

Madam_X wrote: »

Article is very suspect all right though - using this kid's suicide to push an agenda. Classy.

Yup, I hate when deaths are used to push agendas.

E.S.T.

juice1304 wrote: »

Any drugs conviction no matter how small automatically bans you from entering america.

Not only conviction but you are also asked during the medical about prior drug abuse. Unless he was going to lie during the process then this he was not going to get visa anyway.

Corkbah wrote: »

The Police in this case have said they were in the wrong, but so are the parents, so is the boy himself, so are the judicial system, so is the visa entry requirements for the USA, so is society in general !! ...

No they are not. If you are not born in that country then that country does not owe you any rights.

Corkbah

E.S.T. wrote: »

Not only conviction but you are also asked during the medical about prior drug abuse. Unless he was going to lie during the process then this he was not going to get visa anyway.

No they are not. If you are not born in that country then that country does not owe you any rights.

If you read my post the way it was intended (maybe it came across differently) ... it was a jibe at another poster who seems to be blaming anyone except the person who actually broke the law and made the decision to take their own life.

juice1304

Corkbah wrote: »

until society says they are acceptable .... that will not change...so at this moment in time...its an illegal act and the kid knew this....making his own decisions which affect his own life.

They don't have to become acceptable but people need to understand that even with the laws it is'nt difficult to get them. And there is nothing in place to actually help people. I don't really care about the popular opinion because most people are ignorant. look at what happened in the uk with professor nutt a man who dedicated his time for over ten years for free i might add to look at the harmful effects of drugs and when he came back with an answer based on science and not on popular opinion which has been created by the media he was fired.
In Portugal all drugs are decriminalized for the last 11 years and the number of drug users has dropped since adopting this policy because they spend their time helping them now.
In the Netherlands cannabis is decriminalized for possession of up to 5 grams and they have the lowest number of teenage users in europe because it is controlled and regulated by coffee shops having licences and if they are caught being in breach of any of the regulations they lose their licence for good. It would also free up prison space for the people that need to be in their for violent crime rape etc.. all out prisons are overcrowded and as a result violent criminals are released earlier than they should be.

juice1304

Corkbah wrote: »

it was a jibe at another poster who seems to be blaming anyone except the person who actually broke the law and made the decision to take their own life.

If the law is unjust then it should'nt be a law they should help people instead of wasting tax payers money locking them in a cell.

dickwod1

Terrible thing whether it was the court or the ruined chance to go to the US - whatever it was this is a terrible tragedy of a young life.

However while were on the topic why not decriminalize it - tax it and kick start our economy again?

People of all walks of life smoke it ...
It doesn't lead to harder drugs - buying weed/hash off drug dealers on street corners does
Mega tax uptake for the gov coffers
No silly convictions for weed/hash
No spend on policing/court cases for weed/hash

win win

Corkbah

juice1304 wrote: »

They don't have to become acceptable but people need to understand that even with the laws it is'nt difficult to get them. And there is nothing in place to actually help people. I don't really care about the popular opinion because most people are ignorant. look at what happened in the uk with professor nutt a man who dedicated his time for over ten years for free i might add to look at the harmful effects of drugs and when he came back with an answer based on science and not on popular opinion which has been created by the media he was fired.
In Portugal all drugs are decriminalized for the last 11 years and the number of drug users has dropped since adopting this policy because they spend their time helping them now.
In the Netherlands cannabis is decriminalized for possession of up to 5 grams and they have the lowest number of teenage users in europe because it is controlled and regulated by coffee shops having licences and if they are caught being in breach of any of the regulations they lose their licence for good. It would also free up prison space for the people that need to be in their for violent crime rape etc.. all out prisons are overcrowded and as a result violent criminals are released earlier than they should be.

just because other countries do it and it might work does not mean it would work here or in the UK.

Personally I think personal usage should be allowed but you would have to set an amount in grams as defining personal usage would be different for each person (for weed only) ...but in this case ... I cant understand why you cannot understand that the kid made his decisions and must be to blame (if not 100% then a very high percentage) ..... nobody made him take the drugs, no-one made him get caught, no-one made him use again....and get caught !!

Chuck Stone

Corkbah wrote: »

if you want to change the laws ... get enough people to support you ...get elected and change the law

How simple and comforting. Were you comfortable with homosexuality being illegal when it was? These laws were crafted by puritanical conservitards the useless fucks.

Stupid laws (like making a plant illegal and telling adults who they can and can't have a sexual relationship with) deserve to be ignored.

Corkbah

juice1304 wrote: »

If the law is unjust then it should'nt be a law they should help people instead of wasting tax payers money locking them in a cell.

you could argue that one till the cows get home ... water tax, home tax, road tax, etc etc ... most taxes would be considered unjust ....fact remains ..it is illegal and as I said earlier if you think the law should be changed ...by all means ... get enough support behind you ...get elected and change the law !!

dickwod1

Corkbah wrote: »

you could argue that one till the cows get home ... water tax, home tax, road tax, etc etc ... most taxes would be considered unjust ....fact remains ..it is illegal and as I said earlier if you think the law should be changed ...by all means ... get enough support behind you ...get elected and change the law !!

So your telling me if I get elected I can change that law?

Complete B.S

Corkbah

Chuck Stone wrote: »

How simple and comforting. Were you comfortable with homosexuality being illegal when it was? These laws were crafted by puritanical conservitards the useless fucks.

Stupid laws (like making a plant illegal and telling adults who they can and can't have a sexual relationship with) deserve to be ignored.

you see it as a plant, some see it as a gateway drug .... when was homosexuality illegal ?? do you have any law to quote me on this one ?
and when did it become legal to be gay ?

as I have said...if you feel strongly for the legalisation ... run for election - change the law.

Corkbah

dickwod1 wrote: »

So your telling me if I get elected I can change that law?

Complete B.S

seriously ... do you know anything about politics..... if you get enough support the law can be changed ... which means you would need enough politicians all with the same view, so yes !! , the law could be changed if enough politicians and popular opinion requires it to be changed.

juice1304

Corkbah wrote: »

when was homosexuality illegal ?? do you have any law to quote me on this one ?
and when did it become legal to be gay ?

as I have said...if you feel strongly for the legalisation ... run for election - change the law.

1996 and it's not legal it is decriminalized

Corkbah

were getting completely off topic here ..... fact of the situation is .... kid broke the law, kid committed suicide ... some people are blaming everyone except the kid, I'm of the opinion that the kid must get some part of the blame...for his decisions and his actions.

dickwod1

Corkbah wrote: »

seriously ... do you know anything about politics..... if you get enough support the law can be changed ... which means you would need enough politicians all with the same view, so yes !! , the law could be changed if enough politicians and popular opinion requires it to be changed.

Well I do know about politics thats why I said it

I cant change a law if elected its majority rule and I dont think Enda or Willie O'Dea would support me so if I get elected nothing would change at all so stop with the B.S

Corkbah

juice1304 wrote: »

1996

I've never heard of a law which is purely only numbers !! ... or have we moved to a binary system ???

where is the law that says being gay is illegal or the law saying its ok to be gay !

juice1304

Corkbah wrote: »

seriously ... do you know anything about politics..... if you get enough support the law can be changed ... which means you would need enough politicians all with the same view, so yes !! , the law could be changed if enough politicians and popular opinion requires it to be changed.

politicians can only have the view of their political party if they speak out against it they lose their job.

Corkbah

dickwod1 wrote: »

Well I do know about politics thats why I said it

I cant change a law if elected its majority rule and I dont think Enda or Willie O'Dea would support me so if I get elected nothing would change at all so stop with the B.S

read my posts ... you NEED enough support ...not one person being elected , but if you get elected and others like you get elected it could happen.

anyway ... dont think Enda or his ilk will be around by the time you get elected.

juice1304

i guess it was 1994

In 1983 David Norris took a case to the Supreme Court seeking to challenge the constitutionality of these laws but was unsuccessful. In its judgement (delivered by a 3–2 majority) the court referred to the "Christian and democratic nature of the Irish State" and argued that criminalisation served public health and the institution of marriage.

"In 1988 Norris took a case to the European Court of Human Rights to argue that Irish law was incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights. The court, in the case of Norris v. Ireland,[13] ruled that the criminalisation of homosexuality in the Republic violated Article 8 of the Convention, which guarantees the right to privacy in personal affairs. The Oireachtas (Irish parliament) decriminalised homosexuality five years later, when the Minister for Justice, Maire Geoghegan-Quinn, in the 1992–1994 Fianna Fáil—Labour coalition government included decriminalisation with an equal age of consent (an equal age of consent was not required by the ECHR ruling) in a Bill to deal with various sexual offences. None of the parties represented in the Oireachtas opposed decriminalisation. Coincidentally, the task of signing the Bill decriminalising homosexual acts fell to the then President of Ireland, Mary Robinson, an outspoken defender of gay rights who as a barrister and Senior Counsel had represented Norris in his European Court of Human Rights case."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Discrimination_protections

Corkbah

juice1304 wrote: »

politicians can only have the view of their political party if they speak out against it they lose their job.

seriously !!! ... so if you have enough people of the same opinion elected ... you can start your own party for all I care !! ....all you need to do is get elected and have enough support and you can change to the way you want it to be.

can we get back on topic please - kid killed himself ...people here blame the police and everyone but the kid.

dickwod1

Corkbah wrote: »

but if you get elected and others like you get elected it could happen.

Oh so only more than half the Dail has to think like me and get elected ... ok now i get it :rolleyes:

juice1304

Corkbah wrote: »

seriously !!! ... so if you have enough people of the same opinion elected ... you can start your own party for all I care !! ....all you need to do is get elected and have enough support and you can change to the way you want it to be.

No you can't, which is a breach of the constitution

Ireland

In Ireland there were attempts to establish a Cannabis legalisation Party however the government have so far refused to allow any such parties to be registered. A number of individuals including journalist Olaf Tyaransen and Phoenix Park festival organiser Ubi Dwyer have stood in various elections (national, Local and European) as independent candidates on a legalise cannabis platform. The only success to date has been the election of Luke 'Ming' Flanagan to The Dáil in the 2011 General Election although it is generally accepted that Flannigan's success was also mainly due to his stance on other political issues.

Recently, the group Legalise Cannabis Ireland has been building a campaign to legalise cannabis in Ireland. It organised the first cannabis march in Ireland and was the only group to provide information about contaminated cannabis or 'grit weed' in Ireland. It is currently building membership to become a registered political party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_political_parties#Ireland

E.S.T.

dickwod1 wrote: »

Terrible thing whether it was the court or the ruined chance to go to the US - whatever it was this is a terrible tragedy of a young life.

However while were on the topic why not decriminalize it - tax it and kick start our economy again?

People of all walks of life smoke it ...
It doesn't lead to harder drugs - buying weed/hash off drug dealers on street corners does
Mega tax uptake for the gov coffers
No silly convictions for weed/hash
No spend on policing/court cases for weed/hash

win win

If marijuana was truly legalized and produced at a commercial scale it would cost around $30-40USD for a pound of high quality marijuana. You can only tax something so much before you create a black market like there is with cigarettes. There is only a lot of tax money to made from marijuana as long as it is not fully legalized like the grey area in the US where it is now legal in some states but illegal under federal law.

Even if legalized you would still be arresting people for things like driving under the influence or public use. It would still be illegal for people to possess while underage. People would still be violating probation by using marijuana while on probation.

Corkbah

juice1304 wrote: »

i guess it was 1994

In 1983 David Norris took a case to the Supreme Court seeking to challenge the constitutionality of these laws but was unsuccessful. In its judgement (delivered by a 3–2 majority) the court referred to the "Christian and democratic nature of the Irish State" and argued that criminalisation served public health and the institution of marriage.

"In 1988 Norris took a case to the European Court of Human Rights to argue that Irish law was incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights. The court, in the case of Norris v. Ireland,[13] ruled that the criminalisation of homosexuality in the Republic violated Article 8 of the Convention, which guarantees the right to privacy in personal affairs. The Oireachtas (Irish parliament) decriminalised homosexuality five years later, when the Minister for Justice, Maire Geoghegan-Quinn, in the 1992–1994 Fianna Fáil—Labour coalition government included decriminalisation with an equal age of consent (an equal age of consent was not required by the ECHR ruling) in a Bill to deal with various sexual offences. None of the parties represented in the Oireachtas opposed decriminalisation. Coincidentally, the task of signing the Bill decriminalising homosexual acts fell to the then President of Ireland, Mary Robinson, an outspoken defender of gay rights who as a barrister and Senior Counsel had represented Norris in his European Court of Human Rights case."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Discrimination_protections

1988 + 5 = 1994 ?? maths not a strong point

I do take your point, In Ireland it was once considered illegal to be gay. (I didn't know it but nonetheless ...it doesn't deter from the fact ...kid killed himself - and people are blaming the police and not saying the kid is at fault.

juice1304

Corkbah wrote: »

can we get back on topic please - kid killed himself ...people here blame the police and everyone but the kid.

People are blame the justice system that stigmatizes people for smoking a joint.
Whats the big deal?
If the law dose more damage than the substance then why have it as a law.

catallus

With all of the well publicised pain and misery that is brought about by the main legal drug, alcohol, I can't understand why so many are eager for cannabis to be legalised. If one figures that legalised hash won't bring more untold chaos and destruction to society then all I can say is that they have truly lost any perspective on the potential of people to harm themselves. The reason certain substances are illegal is to protect people from themselves; it is a hard-learned lesson over hundreds of years that people will drink and smoke themselves to death given half a chance and I for one am glad that we live in a society which has the decency to try to protect the young and the idiots among us who are so emotionally and intellectually incontinent that they would dope themselves up with the nearest drug given half a chance.