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Saorview Content Speculation

icdg

Feel free to speculate on what content will be on the free-to-air digital terrestrial television platform, which the powers that be have stupidly decided to name "Saorview" (thus leaving anyone that doesn't speak Irish confused as to what "Saor" means and leaving those that DO speak Irish annoyed that it wasn't called "Saorfeach". But that's neither hear nor there).

I'll start the ball rolling by predicting that there will be no additional TV channels other than RTÉ News Now, at least initially.

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Sam Russell

At 1pm today, RTE NN broke off coverage of the committee proceedings in the Seanate chamber to go to the 1'Oclock News which was being broadcast on RTE 1. What crass programming! Anyone who can get RTE NN can also get RTE 1, so why not continue the committee procedings on RTE NN.

I have been convinced for a very long time that RTE (the broadcaster we all pay for) does not recognise the existance of Saorview (the service we all have paid for and 98% of us can receive with an appropriate aerial) and insist in considering the pay-tv services as the 'normal' way of receiving their services. Even the analogue switch off was treated as a launch of Saorview. When mux 2 starts we will have yet another launch.

Even the RTE Guide (the official organ of RTE) does not recognise or list all the channels on Saorview, only those that are available on pay-tv, nor does it list those channels that can be received on Freesat, but not on pay-tv.

I do not understand why this situaton is allowed to exist. I beleive it is because most of RTE's employees watch TV by way of one form of pay-tv or another.

galtee boy

Sam Russell wrote: »

At 1pm today, RTE NN broke off coverage of the committee proceedings in the Seanate chamber to go to the 1'Oclock News which was being broadcast on RTE 1. What crass programming! Anyone who can get RTE NN can also get RTE 1, so why not continue the committee procedings on RTE NN.

I have been convinced for a very long time that RTE (the broadcaster we all pay for) does not recognise the existance of Saorview (the service we all have paid for and 98% of us can receive with an appropriate aerial) and insist in considering the pay-tv services as the 'normal' way of receiving their services. Even the analogue switch off was treated as a launch of Saorview. When mux 2 starts we will have yet another launch.

Even the RTE Guide (the official organ of RTE) does not recognise or list all the channels on Saorview, only those that are available on pay-tv, nor does it list those channels that can be received on Freesat, but not on pay-tv.

I do not understand why this situaton is allowed to exist. I beleive it is because most of RTE's employees watch TV by way of one form of pay-tv or another.

I totally agree with you. I dont know how many times recently, that I have heard RTE radio announcers, promoting a programme on one of their DAB stations and telling people to listen via digital radio or online - no mention of it being available via Saorview, also I have heard them telling listeners that coverage of a particular news feature was available on RTE NN online, again no mention of Saorview. I cannot understand why they dont want to promote Saorview, is it because it has cost them a lot of money and there is no advertising allowed on RTE NN or RTE1+1 and they are p****d off over that ?
Also, the RTE Guide is a joke of a listings magazine, compare it with the fabulous coverage in the Radio Times or even THE TV Times of the UK channels. Most of the TV mags that fall out of the weekend tabloids are far superior.

MarkK

Sam Russell wrote: »

At 1pm today, RTE NN broke off coverage of the committee proceedings in the Seanate chamber to go to the 1'Oclock News which was being broadcast on RTE 1. What crass programming! Anyone who can get RTE NN can also get RTE 1, so why not continue the committee procedings on RTE NN.

The BBC News channel also simulcasts most of the main BBC 1 news bulletins.

If it's to be the 'news' channel which can be permanently on TVs in foyers and offices so in my opinion it should always show the main news bulletins live unless there is something truly newsworthy happening.

Sam Russell

I have been banging on about this since the new DG started in RTE which was just after the rump government, in its dying days, made the decisions to prevent RTE from gaining anything from Saorview. TV3 were allowed a free ride, and currently no-one knows if they are paying anything atall for TV transmission for two channels.

It is obvious the RTE do not want anything to do with Saorview, and TV3 do not want to pay for anything if they can get away with it. Also I get the impression there is bad blood between the BAI and RTE although I have no reason to say that.

Until RTE is allowed to operate their four channels with a certain level of autonomy they will continue to operate as if Saorview did not exist. (in my opinion - I have no connection with RTE other than through my aerial). The surest way to get that is give the existing Mux to RTE for their exclusive use, and the second mux be for TV3, TG4, and OTV and anyone else. RTE NL would then have to collect the appropriate charges for that service or it would be discontinued. Apparently, the politicos want OTV for free, TV3 want everything for free, TG4 are prepared to go HD, but not on Saorview as that costs - so I see problems ahead. The rules re advertising would be the same for all channels. No advertising aimed at kids, but otherwise .....

The BAI might have other ideas.

Jpmarn

RTE News Now is an online Internet channel. This channel has been broadcasting exclusively on the Internet for some time before it became available on soarview. It has to carry the main news bulletins to an international audience.

STB

Jpmarn wrote: »

RTE News Now is an online Internet channel. This channel has been broadcasting exclusively on the Internet for some time before it became available on soarview. It has to carry the main news bulletins to an international audience.

Indeed it was initially internet focused. But it appeared on Saorview in 2009. It has become increasingly more content focused in recent times. It is not loop the loop all the time. More and more people watching it now that it is a TV Channel. As Aengus MacGriana found out last night on the 10 O Clock News which is live and exclusive to the channel. There have been youtube takedowns galore today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AcV43LfPF0

Sam Russell

RTE News Now is a brand with different manifestations. There is one on Saorview (without ads), another for the net, and yet a third for railway stations (with lots of ads).

Irrespective of the second two, Saorview should be treated as a news channel, not a simulcast channel of news that is on another Saorview channel. It is plain daft to be doing what they are currently doing. [It is also daft that they cannot run adverts to pay for the channel].

RTE do the same with RTE 2HD and RTE Jr. They could broadcast HD films on Saorview while broadcasting the kids programmes on RTE Jr. Platforms that do not have RTE Jr have the choice of showing one or the other, but IMHO Saorview should be the primary platform, and RTE should assume that all other platforms carry all of it. It is only because 'not everyone can get Saorview .....' - well, I've got news for RTE - 98% of the population can get Saorview (with an appropriate aerial) and those that cannot can get it with Saorsat (well nearly all of them).

So why do they persist in this nonsense?

ftakeith

RTE should go to Minister Rabbitte to get rte3 to replace rte+1, a +1 tv channel is waste of time for small tv content, RTE have the rights to us tv programmes that they show in the early hours

Capt'n Midnight

ftakeith wrote: »

RTE should go to Minister Rabbitte to get rte3 to replace rte+1, a +1 tv channel is waste of time for small tv content, RTE have the rights to us tv programmes that they show in the early hours

The +1 could be handy until there's a PVR

The Cush

ftakeith wrote: »

RTE should go to Minister Rabbitte to get rte3 to replace rte+1, a +1 tv channel is waste of time for small tv content, RTE have the rights to us tv programmes that they show in the early hours

That was RTÉ's original plan for the channel, then RTÉ Plus, when the new channels plan was submitted to the Dept of Communications for approval back in 2010. Phase 1 was to be RTÉ1+1 with Phase 2 showing sports and other programming different from RTÉ1. Phase 1 only was approved for a period of 4 years.

RTÉ will have to submit a review of all new channels to the Dept by Jun 2014. No change to RTÉ1+1 before late 2014 I guess.

stereomatic

It would be crazy to have an RTE 3 if there is no material for it. It's tough enough to have material for RTE 1, RTE 2, TV3, 3e and TG4 and therefore RTE 1 +! serves a purpose when there is no other channel to take it's place.

I would like to see an alternative channel that is not D4 centric and that would attempt to have variation with it's programming (without having to depend on foreign productions) something that is lacking with all the channels on Saorview

Has anybody noticed on the Saorview website the latest news dates from 7/11/2012. I wonder if having Saorview up and going they think they don't need to give more non-informative updates

The Cush

stereomatic wrote: »

Has anybody noticed on the Saorview website the latest news dates from 7/11/2012. I wonder if having Saorview up and going they think they don't need to give more non-informative updates

Like what? There's nothing new Saorview related happening - no frequency changes, no transmitter changes, no new muxes or channels etc. Same for the Saorview and Saorview Tech & Trade facebook pages.

The next most likely Saorview related news will probably be the availability of series link next month.

ftakeith

stereomatic wrote: »

It would be crazy to have an RTE 3 if there is no material for it. It's tough enough to have material for RTE 1, RTE 2, TV3, 3e and TG4 and therefore RTE 1 +! serves a purpose when there is no other channel to take it's place.

I would like to see an alternative channel that is not D4 centric and that would attempt to have variation with it's programming (without having to depend on foreign productions) something that is lacking with all the channels on Saorview

Has anybody noticed on the Saorview website the latest news dates from 7/11/2012. I wonder if having Saorview up and going they think they don't need to give more non-informative updates

rte plus or rte3 would show all the decent tv programmes that they show after midnight or the stuff they bought to stop tv3 from showing them

lertsnim

ftakeith wrote: »

the stuff they bought to stop tv3 from showing them

I see this thrown about from time to time on here. Is there any actual proof of this actually happening or even proof of TV3 wanting to buy programming that is not on the cheap?

Sam Russell

They (RTE) are currently not using RTE News Now as they should. It merely simulcast news and news programmes. Likewise, they are not using RTE Jr as it is merely simulcasting RTE 2 HD children's programmes.

Until RTE are allowed to use the two extra channels freely (RTE 3 and RTE NN with adverts, with RTE 2HD showing alternate programmes during children's time) there is no point in these extra channels. RTE have a lot of archive programmes that they could show on RTE 3 which would draw an audience, and hence advertising.

I am glad to see the Week in Politics is now being broadcast live on RTE 1 on Sunday at Noon. It could be broadcast on RTE News Now (which it is as a simulcast) but it would give a point to that channels existence if it was shown solely on it. I think RTE News Now needs a lot of push to get it into a realistic news channel and the place we go to to see what is happening - if anything. But it needs revenue from advertising. RTE 1 will be showing a new(s) programme in the morning - another example of a NewsNow programme.

RTE NN does show a webcam version of Morning Ireland but this is not widely signposted by either RTE Radio or RTE TV. In fact RTE NN is not mentioned much by either.

Also on RTE NN, could they lose those tickertape stuff and the sidebars. Use the full screen - certainly where it is appropriate.

Elmo

RTÉ want to become a full HD broadcaster by the end of the year.

I find this a bizarre situation. Will this mean that all RTÉ channels will be HD?

If all Irish TV channels went HD it would mean the need for Mux 2 and maybe Mux 3????

Mux 1

RTÉ 1 HD
RTÉ 2 HD
RTÉ NN HD

Mux 2

RTÉ JR/RTÉ ONE +1 HD
TG4 HD
TV3 HD

Mux 3
3e HD

Source: Pay Wall Sunday Business Post.

irishfeen

Elmo wrote: »

RTÉ want to become a full HD broadcaster by the end of the year.

I find this a bizarre situation. Will this mean that all RTÉ channels will be HD?

If all Irish TV channels went HD it would mean the need for Mux 2 and maybe Mux 3????

Mux 1

RTÉ 1 HD
RTÉ 2 HD
RTÉ NN HD

Mux 2

RTÉ JR/RTÉ ONE +1 HD
TG4 HD
TV3 HD

Mux 3
3e HD

Source: Pay Wall Sunday Business Post.

Surely they just mean RTE One and the rest will remain in SD, which would mean anything of any importance would be available in HD on both primary channels. At least its some sort of announcement, TV3 with the fan fare of their new sony HD studio have gone completely silent... you would be thinking with some very big champions league matches being broadcast that they would want to do it straight away to stem the tide of people switching to ITV HD for free.... it would be a great platform to launch the channel in HD.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

RTÉ want to become a full HD broadcaster by the end of the year.

I find this a bizarre situation. Will this mean that all RTÉ channels will be HD?

If all Irish TV channels went HD it would mean the need for Mux 2 and maybe Mux 3????

Mux 1

RTÉ 1 HD
RTÉ 2 HD
RTÉ NN HD

Mux 2

RTÉ JR/RTÉ ONE +1 HD
TG4 HD
TV3 HD

Mux 3
3e HD

Source: Pay Wall Sunday Business Post.

There is no point in RTE NN to be in HD sinse it is currently a non-channel. Equally, 3E is a non-channel.

The likely outcome of this is four HD channels - all the former analogue channels.

It is also likely that mux1 will go to RTE for their exclusive use, as they would fill it with their four channels and ten radio channels. They could play with bit rates between channels without complaints from the non-RTE channels.

Showing kid's cartoons in HD is a bit much to understand a reason for it. A revamp of RTE 1+1 into RTE 3 or RTE Plus makes sense, but almost all of its material would be SD at best, so no point in HD for that channel.

That would allow TV3 HD and TG4 HD to be on mux2, leaving enough room for 3E, and one or two more channels in SD. OTV and a film channel would make sense here. Again, there is no reason for OTV to be in HD but maybe the film channel could benefit from HD. [The idea of politicians in HD fills me with dread.]

This is me trying to make sense of Saorview, but then not much makes sense with regard to Saorview, so I expect we will have yet another disapointment in store for us all.

khumbu

Sam Russell wrote: »

on RTE NN, could they lose those tickertape stuff and the sidebars. Use the full screen - certainly where it is appropriate.

At least exclude the sidebar & tickertape from the video stream (increasing the resolution) & use MHEG5 to shrink the video & emulate the sidebar & tickertape. A red button option to enable or disable the sidebar & tickertape could be included.

STB

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is also likely that mux1 will go to RTE for their exclusive use, as they would fill it with their four channels and ten radio channels. They could play with bit rates between channels without complaints from the non-RTE channels.

No. RTE2HD is required to be on Mux 2 under Ministerial order made in February 2011. The same ministerial order allowed RTE+1 on air until February 2014 at which stage it is up for review with a report to be submitted to the BAI by June 2014. Mind you, RTÉjr/RTÉ Plus was only meant to remain on Mux1 until September 2011 at which stage it was meant to move to Mux 2.

Requests for substantial modifications to the approved services and channels will require the consent of the Minister under section 103 of the Broadcasting Act 2009.

Sam Russell

STB wrote: »

No. RTE2HD is required to be on Mux 2 under Ministerial order made in February 2011. The same ministerial order allowed RTE+1 on air until February 2014 at which stage it is up for review with a report to be submitted to the BAI by June 2014. Mind you, RTÉjr/RTÉ Plus was only meant to remain on Mux1 until September 2011 at which stage it was meant to move to Mux 2.

Requests for substantial modifications to the approved services and channels will require the consent of the Minister under section 103 of the Broadcasting Act 2009.

I think that order to put RTE 2HD on mux2 is complete and utter ..... and amounted to political interference (in the running of RTE NL). As was the decision to force RTE to not take advertising on RTE NN and only get RTE 1+1 instead of RTE Plus/RTE 3 which would attract extra advertising revenue.

Clearly the illumination of mux2 calls for Ministerial interference decision. I am surprised Minister Rabbitte has refrained from revewing the whole Saorview scheme so far. He is two years in office, and has launched Saorview twice so far. Another launch would surely help his public profile no end.

STB

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think that order to put RTE 2HD on mux2 is complete and utter ..... and amounted to political interference (in the running of RTE NL). As was the decision to force RTE to not take advertising on RTE NN and only get RTE 1+1 instead of RTE Plus/RTE 3 which would attract extra advertising revenue.

Clearly the illumination of mux2 calls for Ministerial interference decision. I am surprised Minister Rabbitte has refrained from revewing the whole Saorview scheme so far. He is two years in office, and has launched Saorview twice so far. Another launch would surely help his public profile no end.

I dont disagree, but I would imagine if that hadn't been implemented by the "Minister of the Day" Nama3 TV3 would have whinged the Minister/Department of Comms to death.

Pat Gleeson

STB wrote: »

I dont disagree, but I would imagine if that hadn't been implemented by the "Minister of the Day" Nama3 TV3 would have whinged the Minister/Department of Comms to death.

Well said - as ever STB ...

mike65

The only thing I want on saorview is HD RTE1 RTE2 TV3 and TG4 how old will I be when this happens?

[Deleted User]

Grant me an old man's frenzy,
Myself must I remake
Till I am Timon and Lear
Or that William Blake
Who beat upon the wall
Till Truth obeyed his call;

A mind Michael Angelo knew
That can pierce the clouds,
Or inspired by frenzy
Shake the dead in their shrouds;
Forgotten else by mankind,
An old man's eagle mind.

Btr

well Mike I'd like it too but RTE is skint and the Whingefest in Ballymount apparently is building a HD facility as we speak. I btw have no connection with either but the constant bickering coming from Ballymount would also make you think they were forced to take the licence in the first instance.

Sam Russell

Btr wrote: »

well Mike I'd like it too but RTE is skint and the Whingefest in Ballymount apparently is building a HD facility as we speak. I btw have no connection with either but the constant bickering coming from Ballymount would also make you think they were forced to take the licence in the first instance.

The whingefest includes the payTV operators that think they have the right to dictate TV policy here even if they do not pay taxes here, and are not regulated here. Why the BAI and ComReg listen to this whinge crap I do not understand. There is a strong bias against RTE (that we own and pay for) in the BAI and ComReg. No action was taken against TV3 for there premium rate phone line scams, yet every oportunity is taken to bash RTE, they even got the blame for the failure of the three payTV consortiums to proceed, even though the first two to be offered the gig took a year each to 'fail' to proceed. At least the consortium involving RTE rejected the gig straight away. Failure was strongly predicted here on Boards.ie from the start to finnish, so why did it take so long for the bidders to bid farewell?

RTE is skint, but so are we.

I]I have no relationship with RTE other than I watch TV[/I.

Elmo

Interview with Mary Curtis in today's Sunday Business Post. She talks about a Saorview Go type service, BBC on Saorview, the numbers using saorview and HD versions of RTÉ One, TV3 and TG4.

Though no talk of the cost of such broadcasts, nothing about either Oireachtas TV or The IFB Channel.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Interview with Mary Curtis in today's Sunday Business Post. She talks about a Saorview Go type service, BBC on Saorview, the numbers using saorview and HD versions of RTÉ One, TV3 and TG4.

Though no talk of the cost of such broadcasts, nothing about either Oireachtas TV or The IFB Channel.

They are testing RTEplayer at the moment by the looks of it. It is not working at the minute but it is there. It is based on MHEG5 and needs an internet connection. It gets as far as not finding my internet connection - which is there. Early days.

Saorview is not a subscription service so numbers are meaningless. What would be interesting is the numbers for those migrating away from payTV.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

They are testing RTEplayer at the moment by the looks of it. It is not working at the minute but it is there. It is based on MHEG5 and needs an internet connection. It gets as far as not finding my internet connection - which is there. Early days.

Saorview is not a subscription service so numbers are meaningless. What would be interesting is the numbers for those migrating away from payTV.

Type of Service| May 2012| Jan 2013
Analogue/Saorview | 12% | 13%
FTA Satellite/Freeview|11% | 14%
UPC/cable| 26% | 26%
Sky | 44% | 48%

Though the article does suggest that Sky have a 40% share of the market, 8% using boxes for FTA broadcasts.

IMO as an FTA service Soarview should provide an option over pay TV service, while subs are not a key part of FTA if FTA gains a large share of the market it impacts subs to Pay TV services.