nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

why are there no J D Wetherspoon pubs in ROI?

dd972

You'd think with the boozing culture we have they'd have colonised our town and cities some time ago, plus costwise they'd annihilate the opposition paying through the nose for their Guinness and Heineken.

Only heard bit and bobs of rumour as to why there's no Spoon pubs here ranging from the fact that it's in the Eurozone and it doesn't fit in with their business plan and the Victuallers Association here are keeping them out by some means or other, anybody heard anything more substantial?

Find more posts tagged with

salt of the earth

hcl+naoh=nacl+h20

12 march 1930

+heat

Quick Links

Comments

joeguevara

Biggins wrote: »

Well the fact is that the pub business was in decline from 2000 onwards for sure.
The heads of Wetherspoons (its one word) would not have failed to take note of this and build its factors into their future forecasts.
To do anything less would have been completely stupid - and they were no overall fools.
I remember at the time being informed by reliable people who I worked along side that the whole situation had been financially re-assessed as to potential future profit margins given the clear incoming decline and thus the non-opening alone of the property they purchased in Dublin and is on record of having to be eventually sold (at a total loss including overall investment and time) for a couple of million.

You think the truth don't lie between factors? Thats your right.
But the heads of Wetherspoons at the time wouldn't have been so stupid to not take ALL factors into account prior to further withdrawal from the Irish market.
To espouse that they wouldn't have taken economic factors into account would be completely daft.

Kudos for getting out in 2005 - you were lucky to make money that long.
Many were not so fortunate.

I should add that I was lucky also - I got out in 2001 from one aspect of the entertainment industry in Ireland while continuing to work in other related areas.
The alcohol aspect of the business was cut-throat after that onwards - and remains so.

The whole ethos of the Wetherspoons (i know its one word but auto correct on my ipad made it two, but thanks for the spelling update)business is to buck economic trends. They would have seen it as a positive that there was an economic downturn as that is what their business is based on! The whole reason that it didn't make economic sense was that the price of alcohol couldn't be negotiated on. That was what the directors presented at their board meeting and was the evidence presented to us who were privy to the information.

Chain_reaction

MadsL wrote: »

Which Dublin pubs apart from the Porterhouse as it IS a brewery, have those brews on tap?

All in the same general area....

Mulligans grocer, The Thomas House has brew dog, Frank Ryans in Smithfield have Galway hooker on tap.... The cobble stone has a few micro brewery beers too.

Biggins

joeguevara wrote: »

Wether spoons attracts people who like cheap and cheerful. It is a policy of wether spoons that music, TVs and pool tables are not allowed. The Irish uk drinking culture is vastly different. I think wether spoons would have had a place in Ireland but would not have an effect on most bars around it.

Btw the truth doesn't lie in between both factors!

Well the fact is that the pub business was in decline from 2000 onwards for sure.
The heads of Wetherspoons (its one word) would not have failed to take note of this and build its factors into their future forecasts.
To do anything less would have been completely stupid - and they were no overall fools.
I remember at the time being informed by reliable people who I worked along side that the whole situation had been financially re-assessed as to potential future profit margins given the clear incoming decline and thus the non-opening alone of the property they purchased in Dublin and is on record of having to be eventually sold (at a total loss including overall investment and time) for a couple of million.

You think the truth don't lie between factors? Thats your right.
But the heads of Wetherspoons at the time wouldn't have been so stupid to not take ALL factors into account prior to further withdrawal from the Irish market.
To espouse that they wouldn't have taken economic factors into account would be completely daft.

Kudos for getting out in 2005 - you were lucky to make money that long.
Many were not so fortunate.

I should add that I was lucky also - I got out in 2001 from one aspect of the entertainment industry in Ireland while continuing to work in other related areas.
The alcohol aspect of the business was cut-throat after that onwards - and remains so.

joeguevara

Biggins wrote: »

Its history now their departure either way, maybe the truth lies in between both factors also.
I suspect so.

What is possibly further debatable is if Wetherspoons got establish, could they have helped save the bar industry or speeded it general decline?

Wether spoons attracts people who like cheap and cheerful. It is a policy of wether spoons that music, TVs and pool tables are not allowed. The Irish uk drinking culture is vastly different. I think wether spoons would have had a place in Ireland but would not have an effect on most bars around it.

Btw the truth doesn't lie in between both factors!

Biggins

joeguevara wrote: »

But the question was why jd wether spoons didn't open in Ireland. I answered what the directors of jd wether spoons told me.

As an aside I opened a bar in 2003 based on jd wether spoons business model. Pints were €2.80 to €3.00. First bar in Ireland to do it. Business was unbelievable until I sold the bar in 2005. The new owner is now in Nama!

Its history now their departure either way, maybe the truth lies in between both factors also.
I suspect so.

What is possibly further debatable is if Wetherspoons got establish, could they have helped save the bar industry or speeded it general decline?

RoundyMooney

joeguevara wrote: »

The new owner is now in Nama!

A lot of good bars took a major hammering because their owners used them as collateral. Quite a few examples in Cork, too!

Actually, just in regard to your former bar-did you have any hassle from the vintners regarding your discounted pricing?

I'd love to see Irish drinkers develop a decent taste for craft beer and stuff outside the mainstream. We're invariably happy to drink mass produced piss. The likes of the Franciscan Well make a good living out of it, and I don't see why others can't also.

Micro-breweries are very popular in other countries, but we never "got" it here.

joeguevara

Biggins wrote: »

Fair enough - you have what someone told you across the water - I have what I was told by business friends here in Ireland who was in the same business as I, the Irish entertainment industry.

We can agree to differ.

But the question was why jd wether spoons didn't open in Ireland. I answered what the directors of jd wether spoons told me.

As an aside I opened a bar in 2003 based on jd wether spoons business model. Pints were €2.80 to €3.00. First bar in Ireland to do it. Business was unbelievable until I sold the bar in 2005. The new owner is now in Nama!

RoundyMooney

The first two articles date from 2010 and 2012, so are irrelevant to your attempts to back up your earlier claim that Wetherspoon decided against entering the Irish market, due to the downturn.

From what I've heard from people in the trade, on both sides of the water, joeguevara's comment seems right on the money.

Biggins wrote:

I know, I was involved deeply in it, had vested financial interests in it...

If by that you mean, as you've previously told us, that you work(ed) as a part time barman, why not just say so?

Biggins

joeguevara wrote: »

I was a manger of a jdwether spoons bar in camber well. Being Irish I was ear marked to take over a location in Dublin. I was told by the directors that the reason they made a strategic decision not to enter Ireland was due to the discount.

Your quote from the revenue is from 2001 to-2008. You have no breakdown from 2001-2003. I am telling you what the directors and area managers from wether spoons told me directly.

Fair enough - you have what someone told you across the water - I have what I was told by business friends here in Ireland who was in the same business as I, the Irish entertainment industry.

We can agree to differ.

(They had indeed already taken over a property in Dublin, did it up to an extent - then sold it off by the way after looking at economic forecasts)

joeguevara

I was a manger of a jdwether spoons bar in camber well. Being Irish I was ear marked to take over a location in Dublin. I was told by the directors that the reason they made a strategic decision not to enter Ireland was due to the discount.

Your quote from the revenue is from 2001 to-2008. You have no breakdown from 2001-2003. I am telling you what the directors and area managers from wether spoons told me directly.

Biggins

stimpson wrote: »

Where? They said they couldn't secure enough suitable premises ie. because the economy was booming. A cut price operation like Witherspoons would make a killing in recession Dublin.

3rd September 2003
JD Wetherspoons Pulls Out of Dublin
UK Pub Chain JD Wetherspoon has decided to defer it's decision to locate in Dublin for the forseeable future. As a result its property at 121-122 Capel Street will be up for auction on 2 October

http://www.dublinpubscene.com/thepubs/pubnews_sep2003.html

Biggins

joeguevara wrote: »

That article was in 2004 when the economy was full steam ahead! The decision not to enter into Ireland was to do with the fact that they were not able to get a discount on beer. The main business model that they use in the UK.

The entertainment industry began to suffer greatly from 2000 onwards.
I know, I was involved deeply in it, had vested financial interests in it and saw the effects also elsewhere at the time with businesses and friends.

For example:

...Now pubs are closing at a rate of one every two days – more than 1,100 since 2005

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0218/1224311962363.html

Thanks to anti-smoking legislation, changing habits and the economic downturn, the country’s traditional gathering places have seen better days: since 2001...

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/04/28/the-sad-decline-of-the-irish-pub/

Decline in the Number of Pubs

Information from the Revenue Commissioners indicates that the number of pub licences on issue reduced by 1,000 between 2002 and 2008, from a total of 9,896 to 8,867, a drop of 10 per cent.

http://www.drinksindustryireland.ie/article.aspx?id=1630

The economy in general then fell later from 2007 onwards.

It was well known at the time, why JD Wetherspoon's decided to pull out.

joeguevara

Biggins wrote: »

NOT so... As I've already said, they were supposed to coming to Ireland but they pulled out when the economy fell:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/pubs-still-a-big-draw-for-buyers-187159.html

PRIOR to that:

http://www.independent.ie/business/wetherspoons-eyeing-up-south-370054.html

That article was in 2004 when the economy was full steam ahead! The decision not to enter into Ireland was to do with the fact that they were not able to get a discount on beer. The main business model that they use in the UK.

Zebra3

Hopefully it's the PH and ATG groups that keep expanding instead of Wetherspoon's opening up here.

dd972

Don't know why there's so many downers on the food from spoons, don't think it's that bad, not gastropub or restaurant standard but better than some pubs I've had food in.

Lyaiera

Confab wrote: »

Eh? Have you looked for American craft beer? It's all over the place! Good off licences have reams of craft beers.

It's really not. The bigger brands of American craft stuff is here, along with some of the well known smaller craft brands. I've talked to the guys importing beer and it's far easier to import stuff from the UK, Belgium and Germany than it is to get stuff from America. It's just a pure cost thing. They'd love to do it, but unless someone in one of those countries imports massive stocks of American stuff and the Irish buy it off them you're just not going to find the really good American stuff.

And part of that is simply down to these beers being craft beers. They just don't have the logistics and supply chains of the macros to get it over here. But the same would be said of the smaller European beers in America. The top 10% of craft beers make it to America, the rest don't.

It's a catch 22 situation. If you want the beers to remain craft you have to accept this, if you want them available worldwide they'll cease being craft. Although that is happening to some degree. The macros are buying up craft beers with huge promises that they won't interfere with the brewing process and beer selection but they will provide funding and logistics. The Fran Well is one to watch in Cork. Molson Coors bought them up and they're going to expand to being biggest or second biggest brewer in Ireland and people are waiting to see if it has an effect on the brewing.

And that's something else that's a problem with craft beer. Some people just want good beer, others take a philosophical view that anything that isn't craft is automatically bad based on them being owned by a megacorp.

stimpson

Biggins wrote: »

True to some extent but the entertainment industry got a head start downward because of a number of still debatable factors.
Some are mentioned in both articles.

Where? They said they couldn't secure enough suitable premises ie. because the economy was booming. A cut price operation like Witherspoons would make a killing in recession Dublin.

Biggins

stimpson wrote: »

They pulled out in 2003. Long before the economy tanked.

True to some extent but the entertainment industry got a head start downward because of a number of still debatable factors.
Some are mentioned in both articles.

stimpson

Biggins wrote: »

NOT so... As I've already said, they were supposed to coming to Ireland but they pulled out when the economy fell:

They pulled out in 2003. Long before the economy tanked.

Biggins

joeguevara wrote: »

...From what I heard, the reason they decided not to move into Ireland is due to the fact that they would not get any discount for bulk buying from the breerys...

NOT so... As I've already said, they were supposed to coming to Ireland but they pulled out when the economy fell:

...During the year, JD Wetherspoon looked set to enter the market, acquiring a premises in Capel St, Dublin. However, the chain pulled out before it really began.

The aborted launch here resulted in a €900,000 loss for the company, which said that it could not find enough locations here to replicate its model in Britain.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/pubs-still-a-big-draw-for-buyers-187159.html

PRIOR to that:

BRITISH pub chain JD Wetherspoon, which opens its first pub in Northern Ireland this week is interested in starting up in the Republic.
The company currently owns 420 pubs, and property consultants will be watching for a suitable premises south of the Irish border, said spokesman Eddie Gershon....

http://www.independent.ie/business/wetherspoons-eyeing-up-south-370054.html

ScumLord

Cienciano wrote: »

I was in a pub owned by Stonegate Pub Company (another pub chain) about 2 weeks ago and it was £5 for a burger, chips and a pint.
I ordered beef and ale pie and chips, 2 pints and large nachos and it was under £11.
Some of these pubs can be souless, but the only way you'd know this pub was part of a chain is because the menus had colour photos of each meal and were fairly flashy for a pub.

On the other hand they do have excellent chains in places too. I stopped off at some Ye olde town in the UK last time I was there, it was obviously a tourist spot but a typical old English town. The pubs there were serving English Ale made up the road in a traditional factory that had working parts going back to Saxon or Roman times and the pint was only £2.30.

I think over in the UK they do have a better Artisan tradition than we do in Ireland. Businesses can spring up out of excellence in the UK. Whereas in Ireland everything has to try and be a business to get up and running. The foundation of the UK artisan trade is making the best product, in Ireland the foundation is always corrupted by the need for financial gain.

Latchy

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

There's a decent one in Manchester city centre done up like a plush house. I know a few people who go there because of the lack of loud music. They can be quite hit and miss but you can't argue with the price.

Nice Martyr wrote: »

Went to one in Manchester last year before a Pearl Jam gig. A converted house with no music. Sounds boring but great for drunk talk and nice local ales.

PS. Cheap as funk.

Myself and a friend popped in that particular WP in Manchester last year when we went to see Ultravox in concert and got a decent pint of beer there for £1.75 .The place was far from soulless but you only need one or two people for company to enjoy yourself anyway , anywhere .

Cienciano

RossyG wrote: »

As a student in the late-90s, I was a frequent Wetherspoons (known locally as Spoons) customer. You could get a beer and a burger (with chips) for £2.99 and Mondays was pound a pint day. I'd get rat-arsed for a tenner. I used to enjoy Curry Club, as well.

We'd go to the one in Portsmouth, affectionately calling it our Gentleman's Club because of the décor (bookcases, high ceiling, mahogany tables...) It was ok, full of students like us as well as old people who liked a drink. Packed on Fridays nights but only the odd scuffle or raised voice.

I used to visit the one in Chichester too, although for a genteel cathedral city it seemed to attract its fair of scumbags. When they instigated their own smoking ban, the scumbags went elsewhere, but when all pubs in the UK for forced by law to be smoke free they returned with a vengeance.

On the negative side, they can certainly attract undesirables and also be a bit soulless; on the plus side, the booze is very cheap and the food isn't too bad. That said, I never go in them now. I'd rather a proper pub with an atmosphere even if it's an eye-watering £4 a pint. It helps that I drink a lot less in my old age.

I was in a pub owned by Stonegate Pub Company (another pub chain) about 2 weeks ago and it was £5 for a burger, chips and a pint.
I ordered beef and ale pie and chips, 2 pints and large nachos and it was under £11.
Some of these pubs can be souless, but the only way you'd know this pub was part of a chain is because the menus had colour photos of each meal and were fairly flashy for a pub.

jossnjuice

Strange this is up here today, i was talking about it last night without evening knowing this had been started..........Apparently, Either Yeates or Wetherspoons could be opening on the site of the Foxhunter in Lucan soon......

Liverpool and Newcastle breweries (???) are in talks with nama.

Mr Benevolent

MadsL wrote: »

Someone needs to sort out the utter pish that passes for beer in Ireland.

Ireland has been left way, way behind, when the best beer in the world is being brewed by Americans.

Eh? Have you looked for American craft beer? It's all over the place! Good off licences have reams of craft beers.

RossyG

As a student in the late-90s, I was a frequent Wetherspoons (known locally as Spoons) customer. You could get a beer and a burger (with chips) for £2.99 and Mondays was pound a pint day. I'd get rat-arsed for a tenner. I used to enjoy Curry Club, as well.

We'd go to the one in Portsmouth, affectionately calling it our Gentleman's Club because of the décor (bookcases, high ceiling, mahogany tables...) It was ok, full of students like us as well as old people who liked a drink. Packed on Fridays nights but only the odd scuffle or raised voice.

I used to visit the one in Chichester too, although for a genteel cathedral city it seemed to attract its fair of scumbags. When they instigated their own smoking ban, the scumbags went elsewhere, but when all pubs in the UK for forced by law to be smoke free they returned with a vengeance.

On the negative side, they can certainly attract undesirables and also be a bit soulless; on the plus side, the booze is very cheap and the food isn't too bad. That said, I never go in them now. I'd rather a proper pub with an atmosphere even if it's an eye-watering £4 a pint. It helps that I drink a lot less in my old age.

RDM_83 again

awec wrote: »

Not even.

There is a Wetherspoons in Belfast. It has had no effect on the price of booze elsewhere.

People will happily pay the extra 2 or 3 quid for a pint to go to a classier bar, or at least a bar with some atmosphere.

I don't know about that I know they first came into derry there was a slight drop in prices in some pubs, its also not comparing like with like, even with price rises for drink in the North its still much cheaper than Dublin (Galway would be slightly closer).

I think Derry is quite a good example of how they would move into the Republic actually as when they first came in they had a properly strict no football tops rule, no music, no sports on and lots of massive bouncers (all these things have since changed) which was probably deliberate to prevent it becoming too nasty.

Also the point about all the Craft brews and pubs serving them in Ireland is sort of missing the point, in W,spoons these are affordable and often cheaper than the mass produced stuff, I drink beer and like the taste but its not wine and paying 6 euro plus for a pint is just unappealing* , and most importantly they serve a range of ciders not just something massively overpriced like Aspels (2 pound 7.3% cloudy westons scrumpy

).

* The Gingerman does have cheap franciscian well stuff but I've had horrendous hangovers of it.

Nice Martyr

Went to one in Manchester last year before a Pearl Jam gig. A converted house with no music. Sounds boring but great for drunk talk and nice local ales.

PS. Cheap as funk.

Cantona's Collars

Been to a few in different parts of the UK & they vary in 'quality'.Great when on a stag do or heading to a match as the beer is dirt cheap.

There's one in Cardiff which used to be an old cinema that specialised in adult movies.

United fans will be familiar with the Bishops Blaize which used to be a dive of a place (can't remember the original name) which has since been taken over by Wetherspoons & revamped.

It's gas how you can get a large bottle of Bulmers (Magners over there) for a hell of a lot less than you pay here.

I for one wouldn't mind a few opening over here-it might put the frightners on the Vintners Association & the sky high prices of going for a night out.

Great selection of drinks too,outside the cities here the idea of a selection of beers is the usual Bud,Carlsberg,Guinness etc. with Bavaria as the exotic out of the norm beer.

http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/home/drink

awec

ScumLord wrote: »

Yeah, all the other places have been driven out of the market.

Not even.

There is a Wetherspoons in Belfast. It has had no effect on the price of booze elsewhere.

People will happily pay the extra 2 or 3 quid for a pint to go to a classier bar, or at least a bar with some atmosphere.