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Child Item

Pat Kenny on Radio 1 about Ennis anti social behaviour

kerrywoman1

Did anyone hear the pat kenny show today where they interviewed people in Housing Estates in ennis .
They said some houses were for sale for 35,000 and that the anti social behaviour was really bad.
What can be done about it ,there seems to be no solution from what i heard.

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maiden

I missed it but listened to the podcast, that poor poor man they interviewed

Shapey Fiend

It's kind of mental the state hasn't worked out a system of evicting people who are causing entire estates to move out/sell their houses at enormous loss. It's not like it's a really right wing, totalitarian idea. Just if you completely take the piss altogether there should be some sort of jail time. Some people don't respond to incentives. If they can get away with it like they can now why would they act any different?

Lady Chatterton

I'm just after listening to the podcast and my heart goes out to the people featured in the programme. It's bad enough to be in negative equity but their houses are virtually worthless (€185,000 down to €35,000 :mad:).

I hope that something can be done to help these people as it must be unbearable to be living 24/7 in a hypervigilant state

:(:(

Claregirl

http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20147052%3A133%3A29%2D01%2D2013%3A

Link to podcast for anyone interested. It's shocking but nothing we haven't already read about here on boards. l feel very sorry for them and hope that now it's "national news" something can be done about it.

lebowsky

A small chink of light for some people unfortunate enough to be living near antisocial tenants from a recent court case taken by residents in Cork against a landlord.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/landlord-fined-30k-for-tenants-actions-217217.html

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=50636&hilit=landlord+court

Janrey

I'm listening now.Shocking ! Does anyone know which estates are being talked of ?We are hoping to move to Clare this year, not to Ennis, hopefully MM, but I often looked at houses in estates in Ennis and wondered.

pilate 1

how long must this be tolerated?im choosing my words very carefully here
because this thread will soon get locked and bans handed out if we start speaking our minds.however i would suggest there is a link between this kind of
behaviour and a certain sector of our society:mad:

Balagan

pilate 1 wrote: »

how long must this be tolerated?im choosing my words very carefully here
because this thread will soon get locked and bans handed out if we start speaking our minds.however i would suggest there is a link between this kind of
behaviour and a certain sector of our society:mad:

If RTE, our national broadcast outlet, Brian O'Connell, the Ennis-born reporter who put this radio report together and Pat Kenny, the highest paid broadcaster in the land who interviewed Brian, all fail to name the certain sector of society which is causing the greater part of the anti social behaviour reported on, then surely there is the real story.

In the past and some of it not so long ago, we collectively turned a blind eye to the known knowns: the exploitation of unmarried mothers in Magdalene laundries, the pinched-faced, hungry, tormented and abused children in orphanages and industrial schools, the terrible and too-frequent cases of abuse of children in their own homes and by the most respected men in their communities, the priest, the club trainer etc., then isn't it clear that we are still of that mindset and still in the business of abandoning the helpless members of our society who, in the present day injustice, are having their lives ruined by SOME out-of-control members of the 'settled' traveller community who are making their lives hell? And I use the word 'helpless' with reluctance because they should have access to justice and they should be out screaming for it but, unfortunately, living in such 'seige' atmospheres where they, their kids and their properties are at the mercy of tormentors leaves otherwise strong people exhausted and vulnerable as they face the reality that nobody gives a damn and they are on their own. That exhaustion and vulnerability could be heard in the voices of those interviewed.

And abuse within abuse is the lot of the children of the tormentors whose lives are ruined from the start and in full view of a society hog-tied by an incorrect take on what racism and prejudice really is.

And to correct an error in the radio report - not only is it untrue to say that there are now no such problems in council estates in Ennis from anti-social behaviour from SOME 'settled' travellers, but the true fact is that the council is transferring law-abiding tenants away from these beyond-the-law neighbours who are blighting their lives. The people interviewed in the report have no chance of making such escapes from the hell they are trapped in in the private estates nor do people who have bought their council houses.

Why is there such silence?

That is the real story that RTE, Brian O'Connell and Pat Kenny should have tackled, that the Gardai, the HSE, the Dept of Social Protection, the politicians and all of us should tackle. A responsible media with courage and conscience could do a lot to break the silence. The Clare People made a good hand a few months ago at making clear who and what was involved and was beginning to go beyond that to shedding light on the differing lifestyle expectations of those involved. The coverage was deeper than anything I have read and while it must have come at a cost in terms of safety to those involved, it is a real pity that it couldn't have continued and developed.

RoisinD

I listened to the report live and like others wasn't shocked at what I was hearing. I have always considered myself a liberal but more and more I find my views hardening which is a real struggle. I try to see the good in people but I am realising that some are just bad.

From listening to the programme it seems that no one is willing to take overall responsibility or even identify openly the law breakers. That poor man who is trapped in his house sounded so defeated. It seems like no one is willing to help. How can he and others in the programme be expected to stand up in court and give evidence knowing what the consequences will be if they do. They will receive no support while the abusers and law breakers will have social workers, the HSE, solicitors and others supporting them. The politicians have to be made more accountable and I for one will be addressing this with them at every opportunity.

Shapey Fiend

Arrests are just a quick fix mind you. It's time for the government to stop ignoring the traveller community and drag them into the 21st century. The women from that background in particular are subject to horrible mistreatment being married off underage and denied access to education. This sort of patriarchal system is grand for the men involved but it's the part of traveller culture that'll continue to create problems down the line for generations.

invpat

Balagan wrote: »

If RTE, our national broadcast outlet, Brian O'Connell, the Ennis-born reporter who put this radio report together and Pat Kenny, the highest paid broadcaster in the land who interviewed Brian, all fail to name the certain sector of society which is causing the greater part of the anti social behaviour reported on, then surely there is the real story.

In the past and some of it not so long ago, we collectively turned a blind eye to the known knowns: the exploitation of unmarried mothers in Magdalene laundries, the pinched-faced, hungry, tormented and abused children in orphanages and industrial schools, the terrible and too-frequent cases of abuse of children in their own homes and by the most respected men in their communities, the priest, the club trainer etc., then isn't it clear that we are still of that mindset and still in the business of abandoning the helpless members of our society who, in the present day injustice, are having their lives ruined by SOME out-of-control members of the 'settled' traveller community who are making their lives hell? And I use the word 'helpless' with reluctance because they should have access to justice and they should be out screaming for it but, unfortunately, living in such 'seige' atmospheres where they, their kids and their properties are at the mercy of tormentors leaves otherwise strong people exhausted and vulnerable as they face the reality that nobody gives a damn and they are on their own. That exhaustion and vulnerability could be heard in the voices of those interviewed.

And abuse within abuse is the lot of the children of the tormentors whose lives are ruined from the start and in full view of a society hog-tied by an incorrect take on what racism and prejudice really is.

And to correct an error in the radio report - not only is it untrue to say that there are now no such problems in council estates in Ennis from anti-social behaviour from SOME 'settled' travellers, but the true fact is that the council is transferring law-abiding tenants away from these beyond-the-law neighbours who are blighting their lives. The people interviewed in the report have no chance of making such escapes from the hell they are trapped in in the private estates nor do people who have bought their council houses.

Why is there such silence?

That is the real story that RTE, Brian O'Connell and Pat Kenny should have tackled, that the Gardai, the HSE, the Dept of Social Protection, the politicians and all of us should tackle. A responsible media with courage and conscience could do a lot to break the silence. The Clare People made a good hand a few months ago at making clear who and what was involved and was beginning to go beyond that to shedding light on the differing lifestyle expectations of those involved. The coverage was deeper than anything I have read and while it must have come at a cost in terms of safety to those involved, it is a real pity that it couldn't have continued and developed.

This is a most cogent and informed comment on the situation in Ennis and indeed Ireland.This is indeed the real story, but unfortunately our media and authorities are either too scared or too lazy to do anything about it.These people have been abandoned to misery and intimidation for the rest of their lives.

Callan57

Balagan wrote: »

If RTE, our national broadcast outlet, Brian O'Connell, the Ennis-born reporter who put this radio report together and Pat Kenny, the highest paid broadcaster in the land who interviewed Brian, all fail to name the certain sector of society which is causing the greater part of the anti social behaviour reported on, then surely there is the real story.

In the past and some of it not so long ago, we collectively turned a blind eye to the known knowns: the exploitation of unmarried mothers in Magdalene laundries, the pinched-faced, hungry, tormented and abused children in orphanages and industrial schools, the terrible and too-frequent cases of abuse of children in their own homes and by the most respected men in their communities, the priest, the club trainer etc., then isn't it clear that we are still of that mindset and still in the business of abandoning the helpless members of our society who, in the present day injustice, are having their lives ruined by SOME out-of-control members of the 'settled' traveller community who are making their lives hell? And I use the word 'helpless' with reluctance because they should have access to justice and they should be out screaming for it but, unfortunately, living in such 'seige' atmospheres where they, their kids and their properties are at the mercy of tormentors leaves otherwise strong people exhausted and vulnerable as they face the reality that nobody gives a damn and they are on their own. That exhaustion and vulnerability could be heard in the voices of those interviewed.

And abuse within abuse is the lot of the children of the tormentors whose lives are ruined from the start and in full view of a society hog-tied by an incorrect take on what racism and prejudice really is.

And to correct an error in the radio report - not only is it untrue to say that there are now no such problems in council estates in Ennis from anti-social behaviour from SOME 'settled' travellers, but the true fact is that the council is transferring law-abiding tenants away from these beyond-the-law neighbours who are blighting their lives. The people interviewed in the report have no chance of making such escapes from the hell they are trapped in in the private estates nor do people who have bought their council houses.

Why is there such silence?

That is the real story that RTE, Brian O'Connell and Pat Kenny should have tackled, that the Gardai, the HSE, the Dept of Social Protection, the politicians and all of us should tackle. A responsible media with courage and conscience could do a lot to break the silence. The Clare People made a good hand a few months ago at making clear who and what was involved and was beginning to go beyond that to shedding light on the differing lifestyle expectations of those involved. The coverage was deeper than anything I have read and while it must have come at a cost in terms of safety to those involved, it is a real pity that it couldn't have continued and developed.

Probably the best post I have ever read on Boards ... well said. It's high time people stood up for the real victims in our society and put an end to the pussyfooting around certain elements who appear to have an exemption from any law or civilized behaviour. Decent,tax paying, law abiding people are being crucified daily by these thugs and no one is willing to do anything about it. WHY?
The good name of a lovely rural town & all the hard work done down the years to make it a lovely place to live or visit is being dragged through the mud on the national airways because of people who make no contibution of any sort to society.

Lady Chatterton

Callan57 wrote: »

Decent,tax paying, law abiding people are being crucified daily by these thugs and no one is willing to do anything about it. WHY?
The good name of a lovely rural town & all the hard work done down the years to make it a lovely place to live or visit is being dragged through the mud on the national airways because of people who make no contibution of any sort to society.

I don't think it is that, I think that the innocent law abiding people who live in these estates are absolutely terrified out of their wits to report incidences to the Gardaí and if they are brave enough to report them and they give evidence, chances are that the judge with only give a fine or a suspended sentence and these thugs are back on the street to torment their victim in no time. I think that is the real issue, there is no deterent so they continue to re-offend time and time again. Judges need to be able to dole out serious sentences to these people. Perhaps we should be pressing our politicians to legislate for these anti-social problems.

Brian O'Connell also said that he had approached numerous residents to speak but they were too afraid to. There is huge credit due to him for actually getting such powerful personal accounts from the residents who did agree to be interviewed.

I'm not sure which councillor on the programme said that it would be better if a residence committee could give their evidence to a Superintendent so they wouldn't have to individually testify in court. I think that would be helpful.

brianoc

Hi All,
Interesting reading the comments here following my report on Today PK yesterday. I think it is worth pointing out there were a number of legal reasons we didn't name the estates or the types of persons involved in the antisocial behaviour. I had consulted with the local Gardaí, as well as reporters on the ground and also looked back at some of the reports in local press, which were also careful not to identify specific residents. If someone engaged in antisocial behaviour had been charged of a crime and found guilty, then we would have been in a lot stronger position to name them. As it was, there have been no prosecutions in the cases I looked at, and so it was decided that naming the estates was problematic legally. Along with this, the residents who agreed to be interviewed did so on the understanding that I would not identity them or their location in any way. As a journalist, I have a call to make - is the issue still worth pursuing even allowing for the legal and other restraints we faced putting the report together. I believed it was, and it will hopefully help bring focus to these issues that are ongoing in Ennis. I'm not sure I said that local authority estates are problem free, and if I did, it's not quite what I meant, more that the local authority controlled RAPID area housing estates, for instance, are arguably better run than many private estates and that is a change from when I was growing up there. Also, believe me, I have no desire to drag the name of Ennis through the mud. My family still live there. I think if you listen back I did say more than once that Ennis is not unique and that these problems exist all over the country. I'd hope that point came through. It just so happened that my attention was drawn to Ennis last week following Councillor Joe Arkins and his comments regarding "scum towns"... Brian

Lady Chatterton

Thanks Brian.

Personally, I feel that you were right not to name the estates, it is not fair to stimatize a whole area because of a few rotten eggs. We have seen in the past how innocent people suffered when their area got blacklisted.

(i.e Having to use other people's addresses when applying for jobs etc).

I've listened to the interview a couple of times and I didn't hear any reference to there being no issues in local authority areas.

Balagan

brianoc wrote: »

Hi All,
Interesting reading the comments here following my report on Today PK yesterday. I think it is worth pointing out there were a number of legal reasons we didn't name the estates or the types of persons involved in the antisocial behaviour. I had consulted with the local Gardaí, as well as reporters on the ground and also looked back at some of the reports in local press, which were also careful not to identify specific residents. If someone engaged in antisocial behaviour had been charged of a crime and found guilty, then we would have been in a lot stronger position to name them. As it was, there have been no prosecutions in the cases I looked at, and so it was decided that naming the estates was problematic legally. Along with this, the residents who agreed to be interviewed did so on the understanding that I would not identity them or their location in any way. As a journalist, I have a call to make - is the issue still worth pursuing even allowing for the legal and other restraints we faced putting the report together. I believed it was, and it will hopefully help bring focus to these issues that are ongoing in Ennis. I'm not sure I said that local authority estates are problem free, and if I did, it's not quite what I meant, more that the local authority controlled RAPID area housing estates, for instance, are arguably better run than many private estates and that is a change from when I was growing up there. Also, believe me, I have no desire to drag the name of Ennis through the mud. My family still live there. I think if you listen back I did say more than once that Ennis is not unique and that these problems exist all over the country. I'd hope that point came through. It just so happened that my attention was drawn to Ennis last week following Councillor Joe Arkins and his comments regarding "scum towns"... Brian

As you have been in the area, talked to the residents, talked to local reporters and the Gardai, you surely know that it is a particular section of society which is causing the vast majority of the antisocial behaviour problems in the estates concerned and I am referring to some members of the traveller community.

What prevented you from saying that?

Clareman

Welcome to boards.ie brianoc,

As a public figure I'm sure you are aware of the power of social media and the importance of protecting ones identity, especially when anyone can assume an online identity, with that in mind it would be great if you could contact hello@boards.ie to verify your identity and to make sure it's not someone else simply registering a name similar to that of a reporter.

I would have sent this over PM except I don't think new users can receive PMs until they reach a certain post count.

brianoc

I'm not going to comment on who may or may not be responsible, except to say they are both owners of homes and those renting privately owned homes. I contacted about 15 residents and out of them, just 4 agreed to speak. The residents who live near problem neighbours didn't want to identify those persons engaged in antisocial behaviour and few are willing to make complaints to local Gardaí, or have their location identified for fear of their safety. I had to respect that, and also, I couldn't leave myself open to being sued for libel had I identified problem residents/ estates.

Callan57

brianoc wrote: »

Hi All,
Interesting reading the comments here following my report on Today PK yesterday. I think it is worth pointing out there were a number of legal reasons we didn't name the estates or the types of persons involved in the antisocial behaviour. I had consulted with the local Gardaí, as well as reporters on the ground and also looked back at some of the reports in local press, which were also careful not to identify specific residents. If someone engaged in antisocial behaviour had been charged of a crime and found guilty, then we would have been in a lot stronger position to name them. As it was, there have been no prosecutions in the cases I looked at, and so it was decided that naming the estates was problematic legally. Along with this, the residents who agreed to be interviewed did so on the understanding that I would not identity them or their location in any way. As a journalist, I have a call to make - is the issue still worth pursuing even allowing for the legal and other restraints we faced putting the report together. I believed it was, and it will hopefully help bring focus to these issues that are ongoing in Ennis. I'm not sure I said that local authority estates are problem free, and if I did, it's not quite what I meant, more that the local authority controlled RAPID area housing estates, for instance, are arguably better run than many private estates and that is a change from when I was growing up there. Also, believe me, I have no desire to drag the name of Ennis through the mud. My family still live there. I think if you listen back I did say more than once that Ennis is not unique and that these problems exist all over the country. I'd hope that point came through. It just so happened that my attention was drawn to Ennis last week following Councillor Joe Arkins and his comments regarding "scum towns"... Brian

Brian
You misundertood me or maybe I didn't make myself clear. I did not mean your report was dragging the name of Ennis through the mud ... absolutely not, I thought your report was excellent, timely and we need more reports like it to shine a light on these thugs and make them face up to & answer for their bullying behaviour aswell as letting their victims know they are not alone or abandoned. It is the behaviour which is besmirching the name of Ennis not your reporting of it. Well done.

brianoc

Ah sorry, misunderstood and thanks.

Balagan

brianoc wrote: »

I'm not going to comment on who may or may not be responsible, except to say they are both owners of homes and those renting privately owned homes. I contacted about 15 residents and out of them, just 4 agreed to speak. The residents who live near problem neighbours didn't want to identify those persons engaged in antisocial behaviour and few are willing to make complaints to local Gardaí, or have their location identified for fear of their safety. I had to respect that, and also, I couldn't leave myself open to being sued for libel had I identified problem residents/ estates.

Not asking you to name names or give estate locations. Just asking if you noticed, and if the residents and Gardai told you that the greater part of the antisocial behaviour you reported on was emanating from some within a particular sector of society who are resident in the estates i.e., from within the traveller community?

Kristopherus

Can anyone confirm if the local authorities in Ennis/Clare have a policy of purchasing and leasing house in private estates for traveller families? This is the policy in Mayo and issues such as those in Ennis are emerging in some of these private estates.

pilate 1

brianoc wrote: »

I'm not going to comment on who may or may not be responsible, except to say they are both owners of homes and those renting privately owned homes. I contacted about 15 residents and out of them, just 4 agreed to speak. The residents who live near problem neighbours didn't want to identify those persons engaged in antisocial behaviour and few are willing to make complaints to local Gardaí, or have their location identified for fear of their safety. I had to respect that, and also, I couldn't leave myself open to being sued for libel had I identified problem residents/ estates.

lets recap here.journalism at its finest.if it was roma/polish/crusty east clare types/solicitors/doctors etc etc we wouldnt be pussy footing around the issue!if its wrong its wrong and it should be said!so called settled(when it suits ) travelers appear to be at the root of all this :mad:

Lady Chatterton

Kristopherus wrote: »

Can anyone confirm if the local authorities in Ennis/Clare have a policy of purchasing and leasing house in private estates for traveller families? This is the policy in Mayo and issues such as those in Ennis are emerging in some of these private estates.

Clare County Council do operate long term social leasing schemes, it's used to meet the needs of those on the social housing list.

http://www.clarecoco.ie/housing/social-leasing/

Lady Chatterton

pilate 1 wrote: »

lets recap here.journalism at its finest.if it was roma/polish/crusty east clare types/solicitors/doctors etc etc we wouldnt be pussy footing around the issue!if its wrong its wrong and it should be said!so called settled(when it suits ) travelers appear to be at the root of all this :mad:

It's very simple, No one has been prosecuted yet so Brian can't name anyone. If he does, he risks being sued.

Balagan

Kristopherus wrote: »

Can anyone confirm if the local authorities in Ennis/Clare have a policy of purchasing and leasing house in private estates for traveller families? This is the policy in Mayo and issues such as those in Ennis are emerging in some of these private estates.

There have been cases of such purchases and leases but I think in the cases of the estate referred to, some members of the travelling community who live in them and are causing problems (not all are problem causing) are in houses they bought for themselves or in houses they rent privately and fund themselves or, in many cases, with Rent Supplement payments.

brianoc

Balagan wrote: »

Not asking you to name names or give estate locations. Just asking if you noticed, and if the residents and Gardai told you that the greater part of the antisocial behaviour you reported on was emanating from some within a particular sector of society who are resident in the estates i.e., from within the traveller community?

Like I said, I'm not going to comment on that. If and when successful prosecutions are made, then I'm sure I'll look at revisiting it.

pilate 1

MrsD007 wrote: »

It's very simple, No one has been prosecuted yet so Brian can't name anyone. If he does, he risks being sued.

sued by who? clare people? my point is this "if you know its a sector of society say it!be it doctors/dentists/etc. however i do accept those PROFESSIONS dont
have the same access to state funding as others:pac:

Lady Chatterton

pilate 1 wrote: »

sued by who? clare people? my point is this "if you know its a sector of society say it!be it doctors/dentists/etc. however i do accept those PROFESSIONS dont
have the same access to state funding as others:pac:

If he identifies or names a particular sector of society, that particular group could sue him and the media outlet that carried his report.

It would be extremely irresponsible of him to make claims that he can't fully support. Many of the people he interviewed could give lots of examples of distressing incidents but they also said that they wouldn't call the Gardaí. It's not Brian's fault that there haven't been any prosecutions to date.

Kristopherus

MrsD007 wrote: »

Clare County Council do operate long term social leasing schemes, it's used to meet the needs of those on the social housing list.

http://www.clarecoco.ie/housing/social-leasing/

Thanks for your very politically correct reply. MrsD007. However Balagan's reply was what I was looking for, not wooly-worded clap-trap from Clare Co Co. There's similar stuff on www.mayococo.ie, but what actually happens is very different, unfortunately.