dxhound2005 wrote: » Give me the figures you have for how many have paid and not paid.
pitkan wrote: » I will give you an estimated figure of how many have not paid. It is about 1.2 million. This is based on the fact that the majority of mortgages taken out during the pre bubble period would have necessitated two people per mortgage. Yeah sure, ask for your link. There isn't one. That's a hell of a lot of votes.
dxhound2005 wrote: » Like anyone else I can only go with what is published. This is from a newspaper report at the end of December.A total of 1.126 million properties registered for the charge - including 22,334 waivers - which saw €113.35m collected in revenue for local authorities. Your figures will be good news for the government as all of the evaders will have to pay €200 each.
flutered wrote: » add to the above, under the cloud of the knacker burgers, joan burton brought in lrglistation to allow her department to deduct the house hold charge from the dole and all other social welfare payments, now we have the senario where a homeowner in negitave liquity, unable to pay their morgage while unemployed having the household charge deducted from their dole money, also the disabled probaply the hardest hit by the last few budgets having their household charge deducted from their megre living allowance, what happened outside the dail will be replicated all over the country.
Izzy Skint wrote: » Ghandee, i agree, protesting outside TD's homes is necessary and should be just one of the weapons in our arsenal....what we will need to defeat this is mass protest / civil disobedience on a regular basis. I have read through the lpt legislation, those bastards have handed this over to revenue, they have covered all their bases (or so they think), they have introduced / changed laws to allow them to do this. They are targetting paye workers primarily, these will be the first to be hit. Employers will obey any legislation (i work for a muti-national and they will do whatever revenue say believe me), in effect, they may be able to bypass the homeowner altogether. I can go out and protest on the street but I have no influence over my employer. Govt. fcukers know this, they seem to have us by the short and curlies... If this ends up with my employer deducing money from me without my consent I will go beserk...my anger will multiply but none of it will be directed towards my employer, it will all be towards the GOVT. ....FINE GAEL AND LABOUR TD'S. It never ceases to amaze me that when it comes to raising tax revenue how inventive / ingenious / active these fcukers can be.....on the other hand it can take them decades to act on other serious issues....but then these other issues don't raise revenue for them !!! This lpt is basically a method for the gutless, useless govt. to reduce the need for greater spending cuts which they are unwilling / unable or afraid to introduce...they are incapable of breaking contracts, taking on unions, cutting salaries and pensions , reform, streamlining, increasing productivity etc. We will have to be prepared for "action" by a large number of people...it is the only way to defeat this act of treason on the Irish people.
Izzy Skint wrote: » Ghandee, i agree, protesting outside TD's homes is necessary and should be just one of the weapons in our arsenal....what we will need to defeat this is mass protest / civil disobedience on a regular basis. I have read through the lpt legislation, those bastards have handed this over to revenue, they have covered all their bases (or so they think), they have introduced / changed laws to allow them to do this. They are targetting paye workers primarily, these will be the first to be hit. Employers will obey any legislation (i work for a muti-national and they will do whatever revenue say believe me), in effect, they may be able to bypass the homeowner altogether. I can go out and protest on the street but I have no influence over my employer. Govt. fcukers know this, they seem to have us by the short and curlies... If this ends up with my employer deducing money from me without my consent I will go beserk...my anger will multiply but none of it will be directed towards my employer, it will all be towards the GOVT. ....FINE GAEL AND LABOUR TD'S.It never ceases to amaze me that when it comes to raising tax revenue how inventive / ingenious / active these fcukers can be.....on the other hand it can take them decades to act on other serious issues....but then these other issues don't raise revenue for them !!! This lpt is basically a method for the gutless, useless govt. to reduce the need for greater spending cuts which they are unwilling / unable or afraid to introduce...they are incapable of breaking contracts, taking on unions, cutting salaries and pensions , reform, streamlining, increasing productivity etc. We will have to be prepared for "action" by a large number of people...it is the only way to defeat this act of treason on the Irish people.
MadYaker wrote: » In response to the part I've underlined, do you know consider closing our nations deficit an important issue? I do. Thats why they are trying to raise tax revenue. A lot of stuff by economists I've read suggests that increasing and introducing charges is more effective than cutting spending (salaries etc) or increasing income taxes. If people have a smaller pay cheques they will spend less money, and our economy needs more people spending money to get our GDP back up and increase government revenue through VAT etc. In response to the rest of your post you called the government gutless and you seem to suggest they are afraid to make hard choices, cutting the carers grant was a pretty tough thing to do. I guess the irony is that you would critisise them for doing that while also critisising them for not making any hard choices.... As regards to mass protest and civil disobedience, this is Ireland. The majority of the electorate are gullible, as demonstrated by the last election, and lazy so I doubt we will be seeing any real large scale protest.
MadYaker wrote: » A lot of stuff by economists I've read suggests that increasing and introducing charges is more effective than cutting spending (salaries etc) or increasing income taxes. If people have a smaller pay cheques they will spend less money, and our economy needs more people spending money to get our GDP back up and increase government revenue through VAT etc.
Ghandee wrote: » Are you serious? A euro taken from a wage cheque is a euro that individual will have less, in that week/month to spend in the local economy. A euro needed to go towards a property tax, (surprisingly enough) will have to be taken from that exact same wage/salary after all.
pitkan wrote: » You really have it all summed up then. You missed the point completely. 1.2million people (my estimate) is based on that one or the other of the named mortgagees are liable for the charge but as neither of them have paid....well, that's 1.2 million votes as well.Incidentally, there is a lot up disruption coming down the line soon from the PS. The non paying HHC people are a thorn in this Governments side, the money from which is going to the upkeep of the PS lifestyle. I have attended 6 HHC protests in the past 12 months including the Gardai gaffe one when the FG Ard Fheis was on. And, I hope there will be many more this year. Dont be put off by the 'small' turnouts at these protests. There is a groundswell of support from the non attendees.
dxhound2005 wrote: » Tell me more. I don't mind if you want to provide links as evidence.
Le_Dieux wrote: » Now only 65% of the intake will be spent locally, according to this piece in the Indo:http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taoiseach-insists-65pc-of-property-tax-will-be-spent-locally-3358378.html Do these folk in DE have ANY idea where the money is going? One day ( we are told ) all to local authorities, now we have this??? Is it any wonder there is such resentment to a) The HHC/PT & b) The bunch masquerading as a government?
MadYaker wrote: » I know their net income is the same regardless. €50 less in pay = €50 for some new tax but physically having a smaller paycheck has a psychological effect on people causing them to spend less money than they could. This isn't the case when you introduce a new tax/charge unrelated to peoples pay. Its totally illogical I know but I was talking to a friend earlier who is studying economics and he was going about this and how there were loads of studies published in journals to support it. I'm reading a bit about it myself now. The psychology of economics is interesting.
MadYaker wrote: » Its only struck you now eh? I hate to ruin your eureka moment but that must be the 500th time somebody has used those quotes in this series of threads. Its really losing its effectiveness at this stage. Can you not come up with something new?
MadYaker wrote: » I hate to ruin your eureka moment but
Ghandee wrote: » So by your logic, people will still spend the same in a week/month regardless of what 'bills' have gotta be paid in the year? And when they find themselves with a property tax they didn't factor in what happens? Bearing in mind the recent credit union report said that approx 1.6 million wage earners have €50 or less to spend power month after essential bills get paid, when they realise they're unable to find the cash needed to live in their own Home, may find themselves in trouble with revenue/risk losing their homes? Waaaay better idea than a minimum increase in income tax alright.
Ghandee wrote: » Admit it DX, Hogan and Co don't know the difference in their arse and their elbow.
MadYaker wrote: » Its not my logic, and I never said that people will spend the same regardless of what bills they have to pay.
I know their net income is the same regardless. €50 less in pay = €50 for some new tax but physically having a smaller paycheck has a psychological effect on people causing them to spend less money than they could. This isn't the case when you introduce a new tax/charge unrelated to peoples pay
MadYaker wrote: » My point was that increasing income taxes leads to a sharper decline in consumer spending when compared to introducing new charges that don't directly affect peoples net pay, even if disposable income is the same either way.
MadYaker wrote: » This isn't the case when you introduce a new tax/charge unrelated to peoples pay.
To date 1.126m properties have been registered and this includes 22,334 waivers. €113.35m has been collected and reallocated to local authorities through the Local Government Fund.
“In the last few years Irish people have had a tough time of it and, in spite of that, over 1.2million people have paid the household charge.
MadYaker wrote: » I'm reading a bit about it myself now. The psychology of economics is interesting.
dxhound2005 wrote: » Some possible good news for landlords on the property tax front, since they have been abandoned by the CAHWT. (We will not be defending landlords with portfolios of properties). (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/buytolet-investors-will-be-allowed-to-file-property-tax-as-expense-3357475.html Also I see the United Left Alliance may be becoming a bit less united. Remember the time when Clare and Joe were the headline speakers at CAHWT functions up and down the country?http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2013/0121/1224329103851.html
