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How is Poitín illegal?

dasdog

...at what % does alcoholic drink become criminal?

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Senna

syklops wrote: »

I can't fully agree with you because my mother did the flavouring for the Bunratty poitin which is popular among US Soldiers and is sold in Shannon Airport.

Its shame that so much is done to keep the Irish language alive, and another part of Irish culture and heritage has been made illegal and the skill of making poitin is on its deathbed. Quality poitin, like quality vodka has a smooth flavour and is very drinkable. Unfortunately, few if any examples remain.

It's only illegal to make and sell if you don't declare it to the customs, there is nothing Illegal about poitín itself. I cant see unregulated poitín being a good thing, god only knows what could be in it.

shedweller

syklops wrote: »

I can't fully agree with you because my mother did the flavouring for the Bunratty poitin which is popular among US Soldiers and is sold in Shannon Airport.

Its shame that so much is done to keep the Irish language alive, and another part of Irish culture and heritage has been made illegal and the skill of making poitin is on its deathbed. Quality poitin, like quality vodka has a smooth flavour and is very drinkable. Unfortunately, few if any examples remain.

Now that, i would like to experience. So what do we do, to keep poitin alive? Regulations will make a bollix of it for sure.

[Deleted User]

Senna wrote: »

Chartreuse is 55% and sold in pubs.

That doesn't mean they are allowed to sell it though. There must be something to the rumour that high alcohol drinks cannot be sold here. Why havent offies started importing some absinthe for instance? I think 42% vodka is the strongest drink ive seen for sale in an offlicence in Ireland.

Even some normal drink appear to be watered down for Ireland and the Uk. For instance I got a bottle of bombay Sapphire gin recently that was bought in duty free it's not a special one or anything and it's 47%, while the one sold here is 40%. It appears ourselves and the UK get a watered down version compared to everyone else.

dasdog

48% is a nice civil servant number. Who made these rules?

The Hill Billy

Get Real wrote: »

40% alc vol is yje limit in Ireland.

opinion guy wrote: »

40%

Source? As far as I am aware there is no upper legal ABV limit for alcohol sold in Ireland.

Senna

Alec Shapely Stimulation wrote: »

That doesn't mean they are allowed to sell it though. There must be something to the rumour that high alcohol drinks cannot be sold here. Why havent offies started importing some absinthe for instance? I think 42% vodka is the strongest drink ive seen for sale in an offlicence in Ireland.

Even some normal drink appear to be watered down for Ireland and the Uk. For instance I got a bottle of bombay Sapphire gin recently that was bought in duty free it's not a special one or anything and it's 47%, while the one sold here is 40%. It appears ourselves and the UK get a watered down version compared to everyone else.

Absinthe did come into the Irish market, i think it was 70%, but due to the way our DUTY works it cost €80 per bottle, so no-one bought it.
Same goes for things like Gin, a bottle @ 37.5% costs €20. Increase the alcohol to 47% and the bottle might cost €40 (all examples), so again no-one buys it.
You can buy Smirnoff Black which I think is 50%(or is that the green?).

For whiskey, duty is €39.25 per litre of alcohol. Note, not per litre of whiskey. So for a litre of whiskey containg 40% alcohol by volume (ABV), the duty payable is 40% x €39.25 = €15.70.

This is one reason, incidentally, that supermarket whiskey brands are always 40% ABV. Any higher and more duty would be payable. Any lower and it would not legally be whiskey.

VAT is 21% for whiskey. It's calculated on the retail price (ex-VAT) including duty.

Let's work an actual example. If a 70cl bottle of Jameson (40% ABV) costs you €26, how much are you donating to the Exchequer?

€26 includes 21% VAT so the amount of VAT is €4.51. The duty is 40% x 0.7l x €39.25 which is €10.99.

So total taxes are €4.51 + €10.99 = €15.50. As a percentage of the final price paid, that's 59.6%.

TheBza

I like it, one the lads who could get the stuff that would knock the socks off you has immigrated, would love to still be able to get it.

Capt'n Midnight

dasdog wrote: »

48% is a nice civil servant number. Who made these rules?

Gunpowder won't burn when soaked in rum that contained less than approximately 57.15% ABV

kumate_champ07

theres good poitín and bad poitín.
not every home made beer or wine is nice either, like everything consumable you need skill to make something high quality

C.K Dexter Haven

As long as its made with 29% horse meat, it should be fine OP.

hitemfrank

Alec Shapely Stimulation wrote: »

That doesn't mean they are allowed to sell it though. There must be something to the rumour that high alcohol drinks cannot be sold here. Why havent offies started importing some absinthe for instance? I think 42% vodka is the strongest drink ive seen for sale in an offlicence in Ireland.

Even some normal drink appear to be watered down for Ireland and the Uk. For instance I got a bottle of bombay Sapphire gin recently that was bought in duty free it's not a special one or anything and it's 47%, while the one sold here is 40%. It appears ourselves and the UK get a watered down version compared to everyone else.

You can buy Laphroaig Scotch that have 58.3% (Quarter Cask and 10 Year Old Cask Strength) over here no problem so I'm fairly sure it's nothing to do with alcohol content

stmol32

Senna wrote: »

It's only illegal to make and sell if you don't declare it to the customs, there is nothing Illegal about poitín itself.

Is this true?
If so it takes away a lot of the romanticism associated with illegal hooch and puts the whole thing, for me anyway, in a whole different perspective.

syklops

Senna wrote: »

It's only illegal to make and sell if you don't declare it to the customs, there is nothing Illegal about poitín itself. I cant see unregulated poitín being a good thing, god only knows what could be in it.

To make it you need to distill it. Distillation without a license is illegal. Obtaining a license is very difficult . Thats before you get into the issue of selling it.

Now that, i would like to experience. So what do we do, to keep poitin alive? Regulations will make a bollix of it for sure.

If a heritage group could apply for a license, it might be a start. Then open the doors and let people come in and have their own concotions distilled by a qualified professional. That might breathe new life into the custom.

opinion guy

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Source? As far as I am aware there is no upper legal ABV limit for alcohol sold in Ireland.

I read it somewhere before but can't find a source now. Could be wrong - its what I thought however

Senna

syklops wrote: »

To make it you need to distill it. Distillation without a license is illegal. Obtaining a license is very difficult . Thats before you get into the issue of selling it.

Yeah there is a whole legal process, I just meant there is nothing illegal about poitín, you can make it and sell it, but obviously there is a whole legal side to be taken care of first. poitín is very much legal.

QuiteInterestin

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

that and it could peel the enamel off a bucket. my granda used to mix it with oil and rub it into his knees

Reminds me of a man telling me how once, about 20 years ago in America while visiting family, he and his wife were offered the american version 'Moonshine'. It was awful, not sure what he did with his, but his wife 'accidentally spilt' hers and it lifted up one of the floor tiles.

Seaneh

Alec Shapely Stimulation wrote: »

That doesn't mean they are allowed to sell it though. There must be something to the rumour that high alcohol drinks cannot be sold here. Why havent offies started importing some absinthe for instance? I think 42% vodka is the strongest drink ive seen for sale in an offlicence in Ireland.

Even some normal drink appear to be watered down for Ireland and the Uk. For instance I got a bottle of bombay Sapphire gin recently that was bought in duty free it's not a special one or anything and it's 47%, while the one sold here is 40%. It appears ourselves and the UK get a watered down version compared to everyone else.

Salt House in Galway and Against the Grain in Dublin sell several cask strength whiskeys which are 60%+.

There is no law on the upper limit of alcohol volume.

It's nonsense.

syklops

Seaneh wrote: »

Salt House in Galway and Against the Grain in Dublin sell several cask strength whiskeys which are 60%+.

There is no law on the upper limit of alcohol volume.

It's nonsense.

Penderyn Madeira finish 46% in the Celtic Whiskey Shop

Blantons Silver edition Bourbon 48%

Four Roses Single Barrel 50%

Ardbeg Corryvreckan 57.1%

ViveLaVie

Alec Shapely Stimulation wrote: »

That doesn't mean they are allowed to sell it though. There must be something to the rumour that high alcohol drinks cannot be sold here. Why havent offies started importing some absinthe for instance? I think 42% vodka is the strongest drink ive seen for sale in an offlicence in Ireland.

Even some normal drink appear to be watered down for Ireland and the Uk. For instance I got a bottle of bombay Sapphire gin recently that was bought in duty free it's not a special one or anything and it's 47%, while the one sold here is 40%. It appears ourselves and the UK get a watered down version compared to everyone else.

You can get absinthe in offies. Saw it in one recently.

DEFTLEFTHAND

If it's brewed by a company with a distilling licence it's legal. It's like moonshine in the States, certain companies do produce it, albeit in a less potent form.

dasdog

At what point is it a criminal offence and more to the point, why? What absolute volume? Who decided's that..?

hitemfrank

The absolute volume of it is not why it's illegal...

1ZRed

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

because its horrible?

It's not so bad. All it really does is warm your throat, in my experience anyway.

I've drunk some whiskies and brandies that've tasted stronger -which isn't for me, though poitin is still potent stuff and strong as feck.

I believe everyone should try it out once to see the big deal though.

Jayo2011

syklops wrote: »

Distilling without a license is illegal.

Not totally true. You can distill water without a licence (loophole in the law that allows distilling equipment to be purchased legally);)

syklops

Jayo2011 wrote: »

Not totally true. You can distill water without a licence (loophole in the law that allows distilling equipment to be purchased legally);)

Pedantic Panda is Pedantic

In a thread discussing poitin, it is assumed any mention of distillation refers to distillation of alcohol.

Its like we had a thread on drink driving and someone said drinking while driving is illegal and you pop up and say "Actually, drinking water while driving is ok".

yes, distillation of practically anything is perfectly ok, except alcohol, where you need a license.

Jayo2011

Senna wrote: »

Yeah there is a whole legal process, I just meant there is nothing illegal about poitín, you can make it and sell it, but obviously there is a whole legal side to be taken care of first. poitín is very much legal.

where have you been sleeping?
Real Poiteen is still very illegal in this country. There are currently 2 mickey-mouse versions being produced commercially here (for the tourists) but these are nothing like the real thing.

Bunratty Mead and Liqueuer, and Knockeen Hills Poteen

see more about them and the revised laws of 1997 here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poit%C3%ADn

The real stuff is illegal for several reasons:
1. You need a distillation licence for one
2. In order to distribute it (even for free) you need an alcohol distribution licence (off-licence)
3. To produce any alcohol (or food) commercially in this country, there are strict food safety guidelines that must be adhered to, and regular HSE visits that insure production premises meets government standards. (no health official will allow REAL poitin to be produced in a bog using traditional methods such as an open turf fire)

These regulations make it impossible to produce real poitin. People forget that poitin is one of the oldest distilled whiskeys in the world. Just like whiskey, there are good and bad qualities of poitin. A triple distilled aged 12 year Jameson has a lot more character to it than a single distilled American whiskey. Likewise many of the flavors associated with real poitin are lost if it is produced commercially. Its the difference between good and bad quality poiteen. The smokey flavor imparted from the turf fire is just one of these additives lost. Bit like not allowing a fine wine to age in Oak keg.

If you want an educational video about poitin, its origin and the way it is traditionally made, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBmMyvjBI3I

syklops

Jayo2011 wrote: »

These regulations make it impossible to produce real poitin. People forget that poitin is one of the oldest distilled whiskeys in the world. Just like whiskey, there are good and bad qualities of poitin. A triple distilled aged 12 year Jameson has a lot more character to it than a single distilled American whiskey. Likewise many of the flavors associated with real poitin are lost if it is produced commercially. Its the difference between good and bad quality poiteen. The smokey flavor imparted from the turf fire is just one of these additives lost. Bit like not allowing a fine wine to age in Oak keg.

If you want an educational video about poitin, its origin and the way it is traditionally made, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBmMyvjBI3I

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grenache

Get Real wrote: »

40% alc vol is yje limit in Ireland. Generally poitin can be anywhere from 70-80% alc vol, same as absinthe. Although I beleive certain speciality shops are exempt but can only sell a certain amount and and very high prices.

70% is the legal limit in Ireland. Where I work we sell a variation of Knockeen Hills poitín, which is 70%.

barry181091

Poitin is fine until you wake up in the morning with the poitin mouth. That taste (oh you'll know it), where you wish you had vomited in your mouth just to get the taste away.

syklops

barry181091 wrote: »

Poitin is fine until you wake up in the morning with the poitin mouth. That taste (oh you'll know it), where you wish you had vomited in your mouth just to get the taste away.

Charming.