Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] Poll Reset

the drifter wrote: »

How much is the charge and late payment fines at the moment?

Here you go:

€130 charge that applies from January 2013 will now remain capped at this level through to the end of April 2013.

Source: https://www.householdcharge.ie/default.aspx

Where does the money come from to pay for the services Local Authorities carry out? Are the Yes side trying to say that we as the tax payer only pay for some of it? Where does the rest come from?

donalg1

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Where does the money come from to pay for the services Local Authorities carry out? Are the Yes side trying to say that we as the tax payer only pay for some of it? Where does the rest come from?

EU Grants and Subsidies iirc

And before the bailout?

donalg1

Bullseye1 wrote: »

And before the bailout?

Same I assume.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Where does the money come from to pay for the services Local Authorities carry out? Are the Yes side trying to say that we as the tax payer only pay for some of it? Where does the rest come from?

Local authorities get around half their revenue from commercial rates, parking and other services. But the bit coming from the Property Tax/Household Charge was previously coming from central government grants, which were in turn funded by a combo of tax and borrowing.

donalg1 wrote: »

Same I assume.

Its my understanding that the only grants they were getting from the EU were for infrastructural projects. The local day to day business came from commerical rates and the surplus from central government. Since government are financed by the tax payer we were already paying them.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Local authorities get around half their revenue from commercial rates, parking and other services. But the bit coming from the Property Tax/Household Charge was previously coming from central government grants, which were in turn funded by a combo of tax and borrowing.

So the tax payer was paying.:D

Seems to get lost in the argument.

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback Vlad.

So, Greece got one last year, same time as us, eh? Any idea what either they, or the Spaniards or the Portuguese get for their 'donation' in the form of HHC/PT?

Off the top of my head Le_Dieux, I wouldn't know, so you'd need to look it up. Spain is the country I know best and it seems it's a similar set-up to here, i.e. all local authority services less water and waste.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

So the tax payer was paying.:D

Seems to get lost in the argument.

No, the tax payer was only paying part of it.

donalg1

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Its my understanding that the only grants they were getting from the EU were for infrastructural projects. The local day to day business came from commerical rates and the surplus from central government. Since government are financed by the tax payer we were already paying them.

Yes that is similiar to my understanding but without the EU Structural Funds or whatever they are known as the infrastructural projects would have had to be funded by the money that was allocated for the day to day business.

tayto lover

Hijpo wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/42-of-europes-banking-crisis-paid-by-ireland-219703.html

Ireland has paid 42% of the total cost of the European banking crisis, at a cost of close to €9,000 per person, according to Eurostat.

The average banking crisis debt across the EU is €192 per person, and the figure of €9,000 for each Irish person does not take into account the €18bn put in from the National Pension Reserve Fund.

After Ireland, the German people at €491 per person have shouldered the next biggest cost of bailing out their big regional banks, which invested heavily in hedge funds.

If that's right then it is truly shocking and a serious indictment of our politicians. They saddled their own people with the debt of Europe in order to impress strangers.

This debt is not ours. FG might blame FF but to do that and then continue their policies is doubly hypocritical in my opinion.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

No, the tax payer was only paying part of it.

Actually we pay for it all. Who do you think pays back the loans taken out by our government? All governments all over the world run deficits. They borrow on international markets to make up the difference. But that money is not free and we the tax payer pay the interest too.

It's totally untrue to suggest we don't pay it all.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Actually we pay for it all. Who do you think pays back the loans taken out by our government? All governments all over the world run deficits. They borrow on international markets to make up the difference. But that money is not free and we the tax payer pay the interest too.

It's totally untrue to suggest we don't pay it all.

Absolutely. That's a very good point. It isn't free money, so while we're not paying via current taxation, we'll all have to pay it back at some point. Many governments run deficits and indeed in some cases, it's desirable.

One thing that needs to be born in mind is that borrowing is a more expensive form of financing, since you're paying principal + interest.

At the moment, given the relatively high cost of borrowing, we're trying to to reduce our deficit, so there is an argument there for trying to fund as much expenditure as possible from taxation rather than borrowing.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

The other argument I hear on this thread is if you don't pay your taxes you're breaking the law. Now that is hilarious.

The people who come up with these laws don't pay taxes. That's the reality. There are two systems here, one for the elite, and one for the slaves. This is dysfunctional. So when someone comes up to me with a "Legislation, contract, law on paper. I get the paper and rip it up. Why? I don't agree to any of it. I just do not adhere to it or accept it. I cannot stress enough the importance here that, people must learn to switch of from this mind control. Once you "agree" to their terms they have you.

The truth is, we don't have to agree to any of it.
We do not have to live as slaves on this world at all. We have free will. We have free choice and we are more powerful than we could ever even give ourselves credit for. The irony to all of this is, it's really that simple.

Do you agree to their terms?
Yes or no.

Do I want to pay this tax.
No. (that is my decisin)
If someone wants to be a slave and give another human money just for living in the house they built and brought themselves, by all mean go ahead, but I will say this much. That kind of carry on is very dysfunctional

The hilarious thing is that they have broken the law several times by bringing in this law... and then you have hogan speaking very patriotic to the people saying "we would like to thank the people who have paid the household charge"... when I hear this I look for the bucket to throw up!!

He really should be saying "Thank you for being a mindless moron paying money from the little amount you have to pay back money to the rich they have lost, for not questioning us breaking the law, for not giving a fck about you and allowing us to live the high life while you suffer thank you again"

Let's all thank ourselves to be a mindless moronic society. Let's all celebrate on how up to our eyes debt we are. Let's all pay for everything that we can possibly think of, so we can forever be in debt and forever be slaves. It's a wonderful way to be. If the law states I should roll over when it's written down to do so, well then I should roll over when I am supposed too. The law is the law no matta what.
When the government tells me fluoride protects my teeth from tooth decay, well the government is always right. Just like the church and the scientists too, always right!!!! Why bother questioning anything? Why bother questioning authority. There is no logic in that is there? Nope it's time for all of us to cop on behave and be good law abiding shirt and collar slaves.

If people are this stupid to go and pay this tax, what other tax will they come up with? Can it get anymore silly than this. The logic for this tax means they can now tax everything you currently own too. Like the Shirt I brought myself the other day. Will they tax that now whenever I wear it in public?

If I don't pay it will the revenue come after to me and fine me? I don't want people to think I'm criminal here.

"rolls over on the living room floor repeatedly"

darkhorse

donalg1 wrote: »

I would imagine if the Govt were to introduce a new tax on tin foil ownership you guys would rush away from this thread and start an actual protest somewhere.;)

darkhorse wrote: »

By the same token, if the government brought in legistation to tax it, you would be advocating that people pay it, because it's the law.

donalg1 wrote: »

Yes I would because it would be the law.

And this fcuking absolutely says it all.:eek:

Who is the law? Darth Vaider ? If it get's this silly, then I am going to use terms like this to reflect this kind of behaviour.

darkhorse wrote: »

By the same token, if the government brought in legistation to tax it, you would be advocating that people pay it, because it's the law.

and by the same token (increasing the madness 10 times) if they were too make new legislation that you have to pay a new high tax rate for each child you have, failure to pay the tax will result in your child being taken from you... would you guys say "yes sir no problem" after all its the law??

you might say this is ridiculous it would never happen, lets jump into reality here this property tax is the noose around some peoples neck, suicide is on the increase, people are facing a future of misery, the only place they have is there home which is taken from under their feet and will never be the same again for the rest of their lives despite them struggling to pay a mortgage all of their lives and what have we got to look forward to? more cuts as revenue figures will be on the decline as more businesses collapse because of govt doing their damndest to reduce people spending and you havea domino effect... peter cannot pay paul anymore as peter has been screwed and bled dry.

Parents also struggling to put proper food on tables for their children and heat their homes!!

So no lads its not far fetched this is actually worse as their is people dying because of this govt... but you dont know that because like govt you are all in fairy world

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Let's all thank ourselves to be a mindless moronic society. Let's all celebrate on how up to our eyes debt we are. Let's all pay for everything that we can possibly think of, so we can forever be in debt and forever be slaves. It's a wonderful way to be. If the law states I should roll over when it's written down to do so, well then I should roll over when I am supposed too. The law is the law no matta what.
When the government tells me fluoride protects my teeth from tooth decay, well the government is always right. Just like the church and the scientists too, always right!!!! Why bother questioning anything? Why bother questioning authority. There is no logic in that is there? Nope it's time for all of us to cop on behave and be good law abiding shirt and collar slaves.

If people are this stupid to go and pay this tax, what other tax will they come up with? Can it get anymore silly than this. The logic for this tax means they can now tax everything you currently own too. Like the Shirt I brought myself the other day. Will they tax that now whenever I wear it in public?

If I don't pay it will the revenue come after to me and fine me? I don't want people to think I'm criminal here.

"rolls over on the living room floor repeatedly"

Well said!!
Its a total shame people dont open there eyes like this and have some cop on to realise it goes way beyond a property tax the biggest problem is whats next for the government if they can get away with this the country is their's and we are their servents end of story!!

Hitler would of fck"ng love Ireland!!!!

dvpower

Full moon tonight?

dvpower wrote: »

Full moon tonight?

Will the tax man be out? Looks like it.

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Absolutely. That's a very good point. It isn't free money, so while we're not paying via current taxation, we'll all have to pay it back at some point.
At the moment, given the relatively high cost of borrowing, we're trying to to reduce our deficit,* so there is an argument there for trying to fund as much expenditure as possible from taxation rather than borrowing.

Also, don't forget the hundreds of millions in extra borrowings to pay for pay rises and increments(in a recession)and if you think of it, anyone who gets a raise or increment, or indeed a higher budget for the coming year(as in DE)while the country is borrowing for all this, the taxpayer is actually paying twice for this when you take into account the interest over a number of years of repayment.

*At what cost, financial servitude and economic slavery?

dxhound2005

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Will the tax man be out? Looks like it.

Camouflage your house.

Ghandee

I've a good idea, let's put a tax on the citizens private property Phil.

Good idea Enda, but what about those who have lost their jobs or seen their income reduced due to the reckless and careless actions of the previous govt's and bankers?

Fúck em Phil, when they can't pay a rent on top of their mortgage to live in their own, privately paid for, independently maintained abodes, we can threaten to stop them selling it, or transferring it to their kids after death!

Sounds like a plan Enda, what's theirs could be our's, why didn't we think of this master plan earlier boss?

Ah, we did Phil, but back then we were in opposition and I thought it was unfair, unjust and morally wrong to tax the family home, but now..... Now I'm in power and what I say goes!

Sounds like a plan dear leader, we'll discuss it further over a subsidised drink in the dail bar sure, subsidised by the clueless morons who'll voluntarily let us dictate to them on their private property!

Can't believe some folk have actually agreed to this

dxhound2005

darkhorse wrote: »

Also, don't forget the hundreds of millions in extra borrowings to pay for pay rises and increments(in a recession)and if you think of it, anyone who gets a raise or increment, or indeed a higher budget for the coming year(as in DE)while the country is borrowing for all this, the taxpayer is actually paying twice for this when you take into account the interest over a number of years of repayment.

*At what cost, financial servitude and economic slavery?

What about all the taxpayers money you are getting. Why should we have to pay for you? You could be a little bit grateful instead of moaning all the time.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Camouflage your house.

Good idea! Don't answer the door and don't take bull**** from people are from posters who are trying to scam people into paying the taxman's luxurious lifestyles.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What about all the taxpayers money you are getting. Why should we have to pay for you? You could be a little bit grateful instead of moaning all the time.

lol.