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David McKittrick; These protests are NOT over the flag.

SoulandForm

Given that he is from an Ulster Protestant background, hardly sympathetic to militant Republicanism and that this is appearing in a mainstream British newspaper I hope that those who have expressed veiled sympathy for the protesters or criticized the Alliance Party for reaching the compromise it did with Nationalism and Republicanism will pay attention to what he has to say.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/these-belfast-riots-arent-over-the-flag--but-the-creation-of-a-fairer-society-8444651.html

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Thomas_I

junder wrote: »

No alliance party mla's elected where I live, and Naomi only got east Belfast because iris couldn't keep her knickers on. Alliance party voters normally hail from cultra and would be middle class soft unionists

I guess that the place where you live might be a small village with a couple of roads, as to say you´re living in a remote area.

Yes, some "middle class soft unionists" is what NI needs to get things improved and to bring the country towards a better future. At least such people are more inclined to compromises than the "die-hard" unionists you worship so much. Add some "middle class soft republicans" to them and many problems could be solved and with no fuss about the "Flag".

Maybe the Alliance party is the better choice for a brighter future, but I also think that Martin McGuinness is a quite moderate man. I believe that he is capable to work with different people from different political backgrounds for a better NI on the basics of democracy. That comment refers to him as a person, not to SF in general.

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

She got elected as a protest against Robinson, she won't get elected again

As an MP.

And lets see what happens shall we?

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

Im sure they get more votes than the PUP get though.

Naomi got elected because of her hard work and her genuine love of the people.

As much as I strongly disagree with her about a lot she is good person.

She got elected as a protest against Robinson, she won't get elected again

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

No alliance party mla's elected where I live, and Naomi only got east Belfast because iris couldn't keep her knickers on. Alliance party voters normally hail from cultra and would be middle class soft unionists

Im sure they get more votes than the PUP get though.

Naomi got elected because of her hard work and her genuine love of the people.

As much as I strongly disagree with her about a lot she is good person.

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

Oh catch yourself- you look at the votes cast where and who gets elected and who doesnt. You know well its the truth.

No alliance party mla's elected where I live, and Naomi only got east Belfast because iris couldn't keep her knickers on. Alliance party voters normally hail from cultra and would be middle class soft unionists

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

Evidence?

Oh catch yourself- you look at the votes cast where and who gets elected and who doesnt. You know well its the truth.

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

The only person I see expressing and facist sentiments is yourself, so what would you do to this community you dispise so much, if you had the chance

What would you do to the Republican community if you had a chance? Do you believe in repartition?

I strongly disagree with gallag- but I do understand and respect where he is coming from. With you I neither understand fully, I dont think you do yourself, or respect.

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

At the end of the day more working class Protestants and those from a Protestant background vote for the Alliance than they do for the PUP.

Evidence?

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

Alot of working class Protestants class themselves as loyalist

At the end of the day more working class Protestants and those from a Protestant background vote for the Alliance than they do for the PUP.

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

Did you hear Naomi Long speak about "gate keepers" who claim to speak for Working class Unionist communities?

Well I would remove the gatekeepers and the godfathers from their positions of power.

These communities have some genuine and some over the top fears of the other side, as the other side has of them. I would try to deal constructively with that.

An attack on Loyalism does not equal an attack on the unionist/Protestant working class. You only need to look at the rejection of PUP at the ballot box to see that.

Alot of working class Protestants class themselves as loyalist

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

The only person I see expressing and facist sentiments is yourself, so what would you do to this community you dispise so much, if you had the chance

Did you hear Naomi Long speak about "gate keepers" who claim to speak for Working class Unionist communities?

Well I would remove the gatekeepers and the godfathers from their positions of power.

These communities have some genuine and some over the top fears of the other side, as the other side has of them. I would try to deal constructively with that.

An attack on Loyalism does not equal an attack on the unionist/Protestant working class. You only need to look at the rejection of PUP at the ballot box to see that.

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

Its not a matter mate of not liking them, I absolutely hate them.

That doesnt go for many people in or who vote for the DUP necessarily . The DUP is a lot more active than the UUP and on economic issues is a lot more left wing. There are a lot of reasons that people who are Protestant or from a Protestant background would vote for the DUP over the UUP.

The only person I see expressing and facist sentiments is yourself, so what would you do to this community you dispise so much, if you had the chance

gallag

SoulandForm wrote: »

Its not a matter mate of not liking them, I absolutely hate them.

I thought that, I do have a gift for picking these things up though :-)

SoulandForm

gallag wrote: »

Soulandform, I am starting to think you dont like the loyalists????

Its not a matter mate of not liking them, I absolutely hate them.

That doesnt go for many people in or who vote for the DUP necessarily . The DUP is a lot more active than the UUP and on economic issues is a lot more left wing. There are a lot of good reasons that people who are Protestant or from a Protestant background would vote for the DUP over the UUP.

gallag

Soulandform, I am starting to think you dont like the loyalists????

SoulandForm

GRMA wrote: »

A far as loyalists go Irvine was better than most but that is not saying much.

I think if he hadn't have died he could have redeemed himself further

Loyalists are akin to neo-Nazies.

Shame on Ireland north and south as well as the English establishment for allowing this political cancer to prosper.

But OWC will always be a freak show until partition ends.

woodoo

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Check out the guy on the left. Frazer's right hand man, you could say

A very irish looking lot in that photo.

apart from the flags. Not a stereotypical saxon among them.

SoulandForm

GRMA wrote: »

A far as loyalists go Irvine was better than most but that is not saying much.

I think if he hadn't have died he could have redeemed himself further

Really?

The Loyalists were fed a lot of information from elements in the RUC but rather than go after members of the Provisional movement who were involved in violence they decided most the time to pick on very easy targets, but there were elements in the British establishment who were pleased with just that; also what he came out with suited what the British state wanted at that time- do you really think that there were not UK state elements within the Loyalists? And that those state elements would not have come out with his type talk at the time?

A lot of working class Unionists support the Alliance Party. Why is it that Naomi Long doesnt get invited by the Irish President to meet the Queen? I really dont understand the attitude of people from RC backgrounds to Loyalists most of the time. The hardship they inflict on their communities is something to behold.

GRMA

A far as loyalists go Irvine was better than most but that is not saying much.

I think if he hadn't have died he could have redeemed himself further

SoulandForm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Here you go.

Read the whole From the Grave texts...Brendan Hughes is brutally honest and in places shows himself in a very bad light indeed, though he makes excuses. Compare that to the text that David Irvine came out with. His sudden emergence was interesting to say the least.

Chuck Stone

SoulandForm wrote: »

Nah maybe they were both unrepentant bloodthirsty degenerates just one was in the pocket of the UK state and the other was is own man which is why they colluded with his killing/murder in the highest security prison in western Europe?

Here you go.

SoulandForm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I don't think the two men's names should be in the same sentence unless they're being used for contrast.

One was an unrepentant bloodthirsty degenerate and the other was a former paramilitary turned peacemaker.

Nah maybe they were both unrepentant bloodthirsty degenerates just one was in the pocket of the UK state and the other was is own man which is why they colluded with his killing/murder in the highest security prison in western Europe?

SoulandForm

There were nasty sectarian elements in the RUC; but there were also a lot of honourable men and women who sincerely believed that they were doing their best for society, the same can be said about the PIRA. The Loyalists are completely other story.

Chuck Stone

SoulandForm wrote: »

Would David Irvine or Billy Wright they were alive be welcome?

I don't think the two men's names should be in the same sentence unless they're being used for contrast.

One was an unrepentant bloodthirsty degenerate and the other was a former paramilitary turned peacemaker.

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

Is that the David ervine who had members of the British and Irish governments attend his funeral, the same David ervine who had Gerry Adams and other members of Sinn Fein at his funeral as well, whose wife is promoting Irish within the unionist community?

The Irish government invited the UDA down to meet the Queen. The Provisionals have their own sectarian blood on their hands so that might explain why they didnt have a problem attending his funeral. And as for the British government...

The man was involved in sectarian murder and never repented of the fact.

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

Because they suspect that he is still anti-Zionist? Would David Irvine or Billy Wright they were alive be welcome? Those men were a good deal more hate filled and murderously so than Nick Griffin. The correct comparison between Loyalists on the mainland would not be with the BNP but with Combat 18.

Is that the David ervine who had members of the British and Irish governments attend his funeral, the same David ervine who had Gerry Adams and other members of Sinn Fein at his funeral as well, whose wife is promoting Irish within the unionist community?

Crooked Jack

junder wrote: »

Bnp has no involvement in the protests where I live and they would not be welcome to either

You demand a much higher quality of thug, eh?

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

Bnp has no involvement in the protests where I live and they would not be welcome to either

Because they suspect that he is still anti-Zionist? Would David Irvine or Billy Wright they were alive be welcome? Those men were a good deal more hate filled and murderously so than Nick Griffin. The correct comparison between Loyalists on the mainland would not be with the BNP but with Combat 18.

ColinHassard

Sane people still exist upon this island. This is an anthem for those who feel disillusioned and let down by the rioters and the politicians. One mob destroy our streets and our image, the other mob destroy everything else from the economy to healthcare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAIbHIG2luo

junder

Bnp has no involvement in the protests where I live and they would not be welcome to either