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Child Item

TV programme

LB6

Tonight - Armed and Dangerous - 9pm TV3

http://entertainment.ie/TV_Listing/1...013/84/TV3.htm

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juice1304

I don't know if i can bring myself to watching it i know i am only going to end up shouting at the tv for an hour.:rolleyes::p

LB6

snap - even the trailer is boiling my blood!

derek_g34

I've never seen so many airsoft Glocks in one place:D

Cavan duck buster

By god these low life b##terds realy make my Blood boil!!!

Witcher

16yo's with licences for bolt action rifles aren't the one's shooting people ffs

BattleCorp

The criminologist from TCD (can't remember his name) can't tell the difference between legally held guns and illegal ones. How many 16 year olds are going around with legally held guns doing hits.

He made it sound like getting a legally held gun is as easy as buying a bag of sweets.

BattleCorp

I say ban all guns.*

That'll show learn them criminals.*

...... *Sarcasm

virminhunter

I thought machetes were legal once you had a legitimate reason to have it, they made them out to be illegal. Your man he bought the bear grylls knife off of quoted the law correctly I thought and he sniggered as if the fella was making it up.

ace86

I just caught some of it but that tosser the expert criminologist from dublin couldn't tell the difference between a mars bar and a pike. A 16yr old with a shotgun who has got proper training and guidance from an older and experienced person poses no threat out game/vermin hunting or clayshooting. the legally held firearms holders came across ten times worst i think , they nearly were going to blame them for gangland crimes and hits and all the illegal weapons that were in the country.

Sparks

I have to stop watching the programmes you lot recommend, it'll give me an ulcer.
I wonder what that "criminologist" (is that to "legal expert" what "toothiologist" is to "dentist"?) would say if we passed on a link to the big red sticky at the top of this forum to him, or any of the guides on what you have to do to get a licence?

Sparks

Oh noes, there are shops on the internet in other countries that sell things that are legal in those countries but illegal to buy in here and only customs can prevent you from importing them! /facepalm

Cass

Once again it's a case of purposely blurring the lines between legitimate firearms holders, and criminals with weapons (one of the few times that word is apt).

This is done because if the program were solely about criminals, and illegal guns then it would be 15 minutes, and mostly conjecture. I mean honestly some of the statements from the "criminals" were so vague as to be laughable, and the rhetoric so bravado as to be straight out of hollywood. All show and no substance, again for television. While we might have this sort of element in our society we are not "boys in the hood" or "The Godfather".

The law abiding firearm holders are an easier target because we are identifiable, have all our details recorded, and have more to loose than the criminals. They commit an offence by simply having a gun. We struggle through ignorance, public fear, and constant justification to maintain our firearms.

Firearms are a hot button topic, and for any budding reporter a "good starting point". The facts/stats are simply a starting point, and used as is necessary to convey their side of the repor . As is evident by the glossing over of the actual gun related figures. 5% gun related deaths. How many were criminals, accidents, suicides, etc. No mention of the licensing process. I'm actually surprised that they allowed a pro gun person to get a word in even though it was only 30 seconds of a 60 minute piece. No mention of sports people needing firearms, training younger competitors as they do in every other country in the world as the reason for allowing 14 year olds to start using guns (supervised). Why? Because that does not make for sensationalist news items. So it will never happen. Barring the fact that a sports enthusiast owns a media corporation and wishes to do a piece themselves.

We have all seen these programs before. We will no doubt see them again and this year too. God forbid anything should happen to someone the issue will once again be raised about firearm ownership. All we can do is hold our own, put across our point, and rebut accusations in a calm, logical manner. To loose the rag or start "shouting" only works to emphasise the point made by those opposed to firearms that we should not have guns.

The day that they remove all guns from the hands of all criminals is the day i will listen to arguments about banning guns or making them harder to get. Until then i view every gun law as a sanction imposed on honest, decent people, by a government that is unable or unwilling to deal with the real problems caused by illegal guns.

Rant over, carry on.

Sparks

Given some of his other appearances, I doubt this will get a response but...

Dear Professor O'Keeffe,
I just watched your appearance on the "Paul Connolly investigates..." programme on TV3 and must say I am somewhat baffled.

I've been an Olympic target shooter for nearly twenty years now, I've been involved in the running of the sport and as a result was involved in the legislative process during the drafting of the 2006 and 2009 firearms acts. As a result of this I can reasonably claim to have a working knowledge of the firearms laws in Ireland, which is - as High Court justices and the Law Reform Commission have commented before me - a distressingly rare knowledge these days as the law is spread across (at the last count) twenty-two Acts, two EU regulations and more SIs than one could shake a stick at.

But I cannot reconcile what I know of the law and what you said about the law on TV3 tonight, and I wonder why you are of the impression, for example, that any 16-year-old can own a firearm and that any 14-year-old can hold one almost as an entitlement. The simple fact is that in order to get a firearms licence at 16, you have to convince your local Garda Superintendent that you have a valid reason to own that firearm, a safe place to use it and a secure place to store it, at a bare minimum (there are many other requirements including turning over ongoing access to your medical records, providing character witnesses, allowing access to your storage arrangements to the Gardai and any other condition the Garda Superintendent can think of that he wishes to impose - the Supreme Court were quite clear on this matter in Dunne-v-Donohue).

A 14-year-old can only obtain a training licence in equally specific circumstances and chief amongst those in the mind of any Garda looking at the application form is that there is a responsible adult with a full firearms licence for that firearm who undertakes to store it and be responsible for its safe use. And all any Garda Superintendent has to do to deny these licences is to state that he does not believe they would be in the interests of the public safety or the peace. Firearms licences in Ireland are not an entitlement in any sense of the word, and any suggestion that a Garda Superintendent is powerless to refuse an application would be a sign that the person making the suggestion was not wholly familiar with firearms law and its application in this country.

As to your query as to what possible reason anyone of such an age could have for obtaining such a firearms licence, I would remind you of August last year, when London hosted the Olympic Games. Most of the shooters in the shooting events there would have started their sports training at the age of twelve, not sixteen. The simple fact is that our Olympic athletes are put at a four-year competitive disadvantage by the current firearms legislation; and quite frankly, given the subject matter of the programme in question, I don't believe that the concerns of Mr.Connolly quite match up with the reality of the situation where licences are granted to younger applicants (a situation which frankly, is much rarer than the programme suggested).

There is no doubt that there is a serious gun crime problem in Ireland; but frankly sir, licenced firearms holders are not the cause of this problem and the manner in which you were quoted on TV3 in relation to this topic was a disservice to your academic qualifications in the field of law, and were I you, I believe I would be filing a grievance with TV3 upon those grounds.

Yours in Sport

Sparks

Also, it seems TV3 have a facebook page for this programme: http://digiguide.tv/programme/Documentary/Armed-and-Dangerous-Ireland-Paul-Connolly-Investigates/891659/?fb_comment_id=fbc_450264915023441_4863585_460880990628500/

Cass

Something i forgot to add.

Was the programme not about Ireland's "black market" gun trade. He bought a knife in a shop. That was it. Not in anyway keeping with the theme of the programme.

Sparks

I did think it was rather funny - "I've embedded myself into the black market"... and then "it's perfectly legal to buy this knife".

I mean, where do you start?

I have a car that can, on a good day with a following wind while going downhill, break the legal speed limit. That doesn't mean I do it, but I have a feeling after watching that programme that it's enough to get TV3 to claim that I'm part of Ireland's notorious underground street racing circuit...

Cass

Sparks wrote: »

I did think it was rather funny - "I've embedded myself into the black market"... and then "it's perfectly legal to buy this knife"...

Sssssssshhhhhhhhh

Don't let the secret out. It's not as enthralling. :rolleyes:

harmoniums

Sux, I cant see it here in the USA, its region locked.
Sounded like it was a load of old codswallop from what you guys are saying.

I'd love if someone would do a bit on old guns from Ireland, I may be able to provide some stock.....

EireIceMan

harmoniums wrote: »

Sux, I cant see it here in the USA, its region locked.
Sounded like it was a load of old codswallop from what you guys are saying.

I'd love if someone would do a bit on old guns from Ireland, I may be able to provide some stock.....

Try this, might work outside of ireland
http://eirtv.com/

Grizzly 45

Like Sparks ,I've given up watching this kind of tripe. I'd rather spend my time more usefully sorting out my shoe lace collection or sorting out my odd pair of socks drawer.:rolleyes:

You can almost predict the format,especially the Irish ones of how this will go.Guns are bad.. Strange people have them go bother them and hopefully the liscensed ones will be four toothed knuckle draggers who can just about speak. Ignore any bar a token one who is articulate .Get lots of serious talking heads from police and academia and the political world to say Guns are bad only the police or criminals should have them,cut with lots of "look at American gun culture and how bad it is." comments and footage of gun shows in the US
Sum it up with some scantimonious statements and ridicilous dire warnings about the need for gun control and the ever increasing crime rate..Roll credits.

BattleCorp

I thought that the programme lost credibility near the start when yer man claimed he was making over €500,000 per year selling illegal guns. I find this very very hard to believe - or maybe I am just way way way out of touch with reality.

As Cass said, those programmes are all about blurring the lines between legally held and illegally held firearms.

Some of the shooting organisations should get together and try organise making their own programme, showing how difficult it is to get a licence, show target shooting in progress and let people know that we aren't all dressed like Rambo going around putting "a cap in somebody's ass".

Cavan duck buster

BattleCorp wrote: »

I thought that the programme lost credibility near the start when yer man claimed he was making over €500,000 per year selling illegal guns. I find this very very hard to believe - or maybe I am just way way way out of touch with reality.

As Cass said, those programmes are all about blurring the lines between legally held and illegally held firearms.

Some of the shooting organisations should get together and try organise making their own programme, showing how difficult it is to get a licence, show target shooting in progress and let people know that we aren't all dressed like Rambo going around putting "a cap in somebody's ass".

I would strongly support this as well, all they advertise is that guns are bad and dangerous. Having a program that shows the safeity of handiling one, the enjoyment of hunting, clay shooting and target shooting while explaining whats involved with licences and storge requirements and probly interviews with the firearms office as well explaing that licences are not just handed out like candy

Dalken

It's a TV3 "documentary" I don't envisage that many will be talking about it around the watercooler tomorrow. There never will be a pro gun or shooting programme made in Ireland or Britain, weapons make many people nervous and thats a fact, it's easy to tap into that for the sake of a shock TV show like this tripe and try and make vague comparisons to the gun nuts in America.
One only has to look to the GB shooting gold medallist that hardly got a mention in the British press while other disciplines were celebrated to the point of nauseum, most people simply do not want to know about guns or shooting.

I however am glad, evan as a long time gun owner, that we have the types of controls here around firearms. The reason we have very responsible gun owners(mostly) is because we have responsible gun controls, most people take owning a gun seriously unlike in other countries where it is akin to owning a hurley. Lets just try and keep it that way and stop pretending that we're victims because the tools of our sport happen to be dangerous - they are thats just a fact of life we have to live with.

juice1304

No more dangerous than my car or a knife in the kitchen. Drugs are illegal are they hard to get? No is the answer to that question, So like with anything else if someone wants something they can have it. Having some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the world dose not make you any safer. I guess all those guns the provos had were from licenced gun owners were they.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Im alright though jack:)

Sparks

To be honest, I don't need to be treated like a victim -- I'd just prefer not to be defamed by TDs relying on the Dail privilege or others relying on the group protection to let them say untrue and nasty things about us for their own profit. It's not that much to ask, I mean, we invented a whole area of law (the Defamation Act and all the law in that area from the past few centuries) to prohibit that kind of thing...

Dalken

juice1304 wrote: »

No more dangerous than my car or a knife in the kitchen. Drugs are illegal are they hard to get? No is the answer to that question, So like with anything else if someone wants something they can have it. Having some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the world dose not make you any safer. I guess all those guns the provos had were from licenced gun owners were they.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Im alright though jack:)

I would think that gun controls do make the general population safer yes and I'm glad that most people in this country feel the same way. I dont see how a gun is comparable to a kitchen knife or a car to be honest. It's daft comments like this that play into the hands of those that would seek to jump on the anti shooting band wagon. Paul Connelly would have loved to have met you when making his show.
I'm not sure what your point is about the Provos either but I understand that this is something you feel strongly about.

Sparks

Dalken wrote: »

II dont see how a gun is comparable to a kitchen knife or a car to be honest. It's daft comments like this that play into the hands of those that would seek to jump on the anti shooting band wagon.

I've said it before, but I'll repeat myself:

Sparks wrote: »

That's one school of thought.

Another is the Swiss school of thought, where they looked at what was actually killing people. End result, more firearms than anywhere outside of Somalia but incredibly low gun crime; but you drive over the speed limit and you're in incredibly deep ****e. Get caught (and traffic stops there are serious business - it's not two lads and a sign, it's half the cop shop on the side of the road to process as many as they can catch) and you're paying a percentage of your gross annual salary as a fine the first few times (and the percentage rises every time) and then they just pull your licence. Get caught driving without having removed all the snow from your windscreen, and that's your licence gone. And so on - things that we see on our roads every day here, would lose you the licence and possibly mean jail time over there.

End result of the crackdown on cars? In 2011, Switzerland had a death rate of 3.83 per 100,000 (source) while Ireland had a rate of 6.11 per 100,000 (source). And while our roads are mostly on the flat, Swiss roads look like this:

Personally, I think if you can get results like that, there's a lot to be said for how you're doing things.

juice1304

Dalken wrote: »

I would think that gun controls do make the general population safer yes and I'm glad that most people in this country feel the same way.[/B]

Are people still shot with illegal firearms that were imported illegally? Yes they are.

Dalken wrote: »

I dont see how a gun is comparable to a kitchen knife or a car to be honest. It's daft comments like this that play into the hands of those that would seek to jump on the anti shooting band wagon. Paul Connelly would have loved to have met you when making his show.[/B]

A knife or a car can end a life as quickly as a firearm only people don't see them as a danger which in itself make them more of a danger. Do you think someone can be fit to own one type of firearm and not another? Do you think the way a firearm looks makes it more dangerous rather than the way in which it functions? Do you think sound moderators make people turn into ninja assassins? Dose a pistol grip stock on my shotgun make it more dangerous? These are all examples of laws that do nothing to protect the general public they are simply laws written by ignorant people who have'nt bothered to take the time to understand what they are banning.
How many people do you know that have lost their life due to careless use of a firearm? I know none, But i know several including family members that have lost their lives due to carelessness of others while driving and drink driving. And i am sure a good number of people here will know someone that has died in the same manner.
I would have liked that i would have talked about facts and statistics rather than sensationalized fear mongering.

Dalken wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is about the Provos either but I understand that this is something you feel strongly about.

I would think very carefully about the wording of your comments,
My point being none of the firearms they had were either legally imported,licenced, or stolen from a licenced person. If gangsters can import tons of cocaine and heroin they can manage a few firearms too. Restrictive gun laws only effect those that follow them those that don't care about the law will do as they please. I am not asking for fully automatic firearms for all but i would like to take part in the same sports millions of other Europeans do every week with out managing to shoot themselves/everyone around them etc... in a safe and responsible way of course.

Dalken

Well I do happen to know someone who lost his life due to the careless use of a licensed firearm and had the same resrictions existed regarding the safe keeping of firearms that exist now they wouldnt have had the gun out. Thats why I fully support the restrictive firearms laws we have now, when I stared shooting as a young lad we took out the old mans rifles and shoguns as we liked because generally they were just in a press in the utility room and in any case he was old school and guns wernt given the due respect they are now..me granny held on to the grandads old webley revolver until the amnesty, the thing was never licensed and illegal for that matter but my family saw nothing wrong with this. Licensing regulates and filters the idiots who should never have guns, I agree it goes too far sometimes but by and large I think too much is better than too little.

I made no point regarding illegal firearms, they are a seperate issue, if you are referring to the TV show fair enough but the connections you are trying to make are just plain daft. As for my comments WTF?? I think you should read your first post to somebody out loud and gauge their reaction before you start typing again or attach your views to your renewel form when your guns are due... see how that goes.

Grizzly 45

e granny held on to the grandads old webley revolver until the amnesty, the thing was never licensed and illegal for that matter but my family saw nothing wrong with this

Dont you think thats a bit of a double standard?? You support strict gun laws but it was OK for your family members to break the law with you all conspiring in possesion of an illegal firearm???:p

Licensing regulates and filters the idiots who should never have guns, I agree it goes too far sometimes but by and large I think too much is better than too little.

Were we to apply that to the most common easily accessible killer in our society the motor vechicle .We should have zero road deaths and zero traffic accidents.But we dont, all a gun liscense or drivers liscense is,is a permit to show you are entitled to drive and use a gun after passing certain criteria,nothing else. You cant regulate stupidity or off kilter mental problems.
How far do you want to go with legislation There is plenty there on the law books,enforcing it would be a good start.