nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

David McKittrick; These protests are NOT over the flag.

SoulandForm

Given that he is from an Ulster Protestant background, hardly sympathetic to militant Republicanism and that this is appearing in a mainstream British newspaper I hope that those who have expressed veiled sympathy for the protesters or criticized the Alliance Party for reaching the compromise it did with Nationalism and Republicanism will pay attention to what he has to say.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/these-belfast-riots-arent-over-the-flag--but-the-creation-of-a-fairer-society-8444651.html

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

GRMA

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Just when I thought my opinion of the protests couldn't get much lower. Would like to hear Griffin's incisive insight into the affair, could he even point Belfast out on a map

Your opinion can get a bit lower I think...

I hear loyalists are planning a "Unionist Civil Rights March" at the same time and place as the Bloody Sunday Commemoration march in Derry...

Similar happened on Bloody Sunday when a loyalist mob protested at the Guildhall, where the NICRA march was headed to.

R P McMurphy

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Is the BNP connection news to this forum? That's very surprising, I thought everyone knew about it already. There have been plenty of articles articles, photographs and videos published since this began pointing out the BNP connection to the protests.

As well as teh well documented Jim Dowson we have Glen Kane and Paul Golding.

Nick Griffin tweets:
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/291149078207795200
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/291150017526394880
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/290793018548690944
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/290794312596336641
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/289295096959086593
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/278241735379935233 "400 on demo in Larne tonight v attacks on British identity. Hundreds of BNP leaflets well received. Well done local team."

...etc. He's tweeting regularly on the subject, it seems to be an issue very close to his heart. Or at least a means to garnering support and votes.

Just when I thought my opinion of the protests couldn't get much lower. Would like to hear Griffin's incisive insight into the affair, could he even point Belfast out on a map

Lingua Franca

Is the BNP connection news to this forum? That's very surprising, I thought everyone knew about it already. There have been plenty of articles articles, photographs and videos published since this began pointing out the BNP connection to the protests.

As well as teh well documented Jim Dowson we have Glen Kane and Paul Golding.

Nick Griffin tweets:
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/291149078207795200
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/291150017526394880
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/290793018548690944
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/290794312596336641
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/289295096959086593
https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/278241735379935233 "400 on demo in Larne tonight v attacks on British identity. Hundreds of BNP leaflets well received. Well done local team."

...etc. He's tweeting regularly on the subject, it seems to be an issue very close to his heart. Or at least a means to garnering support and votes.

Crooked Jack

Check out the guy on the left. Frazer's right hand man, you could say

Thomas_I

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Seems to be some BNP types on involving themselves on the internet at least

I don´t know very much about their activities. It´s just another occation that Martin McGuinness is telling things which later on are proved right. One can say about him what one likes, but I think that Mr McGuinness has some talent. Aside from this topic it springs to my mind that it was him who confronted Sean Gallagher during the presidential election campaign with that "€5000" cheque, collected by Gallagher when he was the man for the fundrising of FF. Not one of the other candidates did and so in this flag issue, not one of the other parties within the NIA mentioned any connection of the rioters to the BNP. Had the others no knowledge about that?

Thomas_I

SoulandForm wrote: »

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scots-ex-bnp-chief-seen-fuelling-1525117

Interesting article and after reading it, it´s no surprise that these kind of polticial extremists use the opportunity to get some "publicity". To mix with these sort of people doesn´t give the Unionist / Loyalist credit. The fact that some "Unionist thugs" even refuse to listen to their own people from the UDA / UVF to stop the rioting makes it even worse, let alone to have a differencial view on the protesters. First they hijacked the Union Flag for their porposes, now they´re hijacked by these Fascists and by this bearing the disgrace to be used by a "convicted" Ex-BNP leader. Otherwise I´m not so sure whether that suites some Unionists / Loyalists to be in that bad company.

SoulandForm

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Seems to be some BNP types on involving themselves on the internet at least

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scots-ex-bnp-chief-seen-fuelling-1525117

R P McMurphy

Thomas_I wrote: »

Of course it´s natural that they can fly it, but I know at least some people on here who already disagreed with me on that. But no matter their disagreement, it´s still part of the UK and therefore it is normally legitimate to have it on public buildings.

So "if the RoI" would share the costs in running NI, would it also be appropriate to fly the Irish tri-colour alongside the Union flag? It would be rather perceived to pay a huge price for having the Irish flag flown there. That´s too expensive for a bargain, isn´t it?

By the way, there are some interesting statements made by Mr Robinson and Mr McGuinness in NIA recently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21015778

The claim that there is some sort of "BNP" involved in these riots is an new remark in the whole thing.

Seems to be some BNP types on involving themselves on the internet at least

Happyman42

getz wrote: »

is this the same SF who was protesting outside the PSNI headquarters while at the same time asking people to co-operate with the PSNI over the murder of david black ?as the leader of irelands fianna fail,micheal martin said quote sinn fein had a problem in their credibility,

I am critical of the Irish government on some things and on other things I applaud them. Which is what SF do, which is what any 'normal' democratic political party do. That is what happens in the mind of a normal democrat, I don't shout NO, bring my community to a standstill, destroy the hard work of moderates and the image of my political alliegences and then crawl home to bed and forget about it. Which is what happens in Unionism/Loyalism again and again, they cannot resist, they cannot progress because nobody is leading them, nobody has a vision of what normality actually is but more importantly, I think, they have no desire for normality, because they themselves will become redundant in a 'normal' society.

maccored

Any more whataboutery to avoid criticising the elephant in the room?

Yes, I think there is:

getz wrote: »

is this the same SF who was protesting outside the PSNI headquarters while at the same time asking people to co-operate with the PSNI over the murder of david black ?as the leader of irelands fianna fail,micheal martin said quote sinn fein had a problem in their credibility,

getz

Happyman42 wrote: »

How does that impact ordinary Unionists would you say?

Again, you have to allow people maintain and stay true to their identities, that is what everybody signed up to in the GFA. SF have been at pains to say that they have no problem with Unionists expressing and celebrating their identity in a fair and non-antagonistic way. They compromised on the flag issue, that is what being democratic is about. They realise that they cannot 'dictate' what that identity should be.

Any more whataboutery to avoid criticising the elephant in the room?

is this the same SF who was protesting outside the PSNI headquarters while at the same time asking people to co-operate with the PSNI over the murder of david black ?as the leader of irelands fianna fail,micheal martin said quote sinn fein had a problem in their credibility,

maccored

gallag wrote: »

But not fly the British flag?

? They have the right to fly the flag as much as anywhere else has - the same number of designated days.

There seems to be a lot of half hidden support for these rioters on this forum.

Thomas_I

gallag wrote: »

But not fly the British flag?

Of course it´s natural that they can fly it, but I know at least some people on here who already disagreed with me on that. But no matter their disagreement, it´s still part of the UK and therefore it is normally legitimate to have it on public buildings.

So "if the RoI" would share the costs in running NI, would it also be appropriate to fly the Irish tri-colour alongside the Union flag? It would be rather perceived to pay a huge price for having the Irish flag flown there. That´s too expensive for a bargain, isn´t it?

By the way, there are some interesting statements made by Mr Robinson and Mr McGuinness in NIA recently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21015778

The claim that there is some sort of "BNP" involved in these riots is an new remark in the whole thing.

Happyman42

getz wrote: »

for once we both agree on the same thing,only i was thinking of the sinn fein MPs refusing to sit in parliament to represent their constituents,what was it,run with the ....

How does that impact ordinary Unionists would you say?

Again, you have to allow people maintain and stay true to their identities, that is what everybody signed up to in the GFA. SF have been at pains to say that they have no problem with Unionists expressing and celebrating their identity in a fair and non-antagonistic way. They compromised on the flag issue, that is what being democratic is about. They realise that they cannot 'dictate' what that identity should be.

Any more whataboutery to avoid criticising the elephant in the room?

Thomas_I

getz wrote: »

just responding to happyman 42 quote by the GFA.its not wholly british and not wholly irish,then they should share the costs ?

I don´t see it that simple as that. The GFA has its terms and conditions to run a shared government, but I don´t believe that it says anything in any way that NI would be such thing like an "external associated country to the UK".

I also think that you´d hardly find many people in the RoI willing to pay for NI.

gallag

Thomas_I wrote: »

That´s their duty, I suppose. I see no reason (except in the case of Irelands unification) for why the citizens of the RoI should pay for a part of the Irish Island which isn´t part of their own state at all. As long the British keep it, as long they´re obliged to pay for it.

But not fly the British flag?

Thomas_I

VinLieger wrote: »

Well the fact that UK parliament have to subsidise NI every year is one explanation, were already ****ed economically why take on the money pit up north?

That´s their duty, I suppose. I see no reason (except in the case of Irelands unification) for why the citizens of the RoI should pay for a part of the Irish Island which isn´t part of their own state at all. As long the British keep it, as long they´re obliged to pay for it.

getz

Thomas_I wrote: »

Do you have some more explanations about that?

just responding to happyman 42 quote by the GFA.its not wholly british and not wholly irish,then they should share the costs ?

VinLieger

Thomas_I wrote: »

Do you have some more explanations about that?

Well the fact that UK parliament have to subsidise NI every year is one explanation, were already ****ed economically why take on the money pit up north?

getz

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's 'mixed up' because it isn't a normal society. Robinson and Nesbitt need to realise (and I think they now do) that you can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. This crisis lies firmly at their door.

for once we both agree on the same thing,only i was thinking of the sinn fein MPs refusing to sit in parliament to represent their constituents,what was it,run with the ....

Thomas_I

maccored wrote: »

'democracy' ... thats a bit of a dirty word at present.

It´s no dirty word at all. The "dirt" is on the side of these thugs using the Union Flag as a stick to assault Police men and by doing so, bringing the flag down on the ground. They´ve no respect for their own flag because if they had, they´d behave different. A bunch of ignorants.

Happyman42

getz wrote: »

i think you will find the loyalists think the same about the tricolour that the republicans wave in the name of ireland,me i am all for a shared ireland,as long as citizens of the republic are prepared to pay their part of the cost in running that mixed up part of the country.

It's 'mixed up' because it isn't a normal society. Robinson and Nesbitt need to realise (and I think they now do) that you can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. This crisis lies firmly at their door.

Thomas_I

getz wrote: »

... me i am all for a shared ireland,as long as citizens of the republic are prepared to pay their part of the cost in running that mixed up part of the country.

Do you have some more explanations about that?

getz

Happyman42 wrote: »

What is missing in the thinking of Unionists is the fact that the GFA bestows special status on NI, it is not wholly British and not wholly Irish either. It is imperative that both identities construct a society that fairly reflects the shared identities. Beligerent displays like this one are not and should not, be allowed in the spirit of the agreement. Seems to me a simple acceptance of the fact (that the Union Jack is an antagonistic emblem if used in this way) would be a huge leap forward. It is no accident that we are plunging into an abyss here.

i think you will find the loyalists think the same about the tricolour that the republicans wave in the name of ireland,me i am all for a shared ireland,as long as citizens of the republic are prepared to pay their part of the cost in running that mixed up part of the country.

Happyman42

getz wrote: »

this is a country that is british,and untill its voted otherwise ,it will stay british ,the union flag,like the tricolour is in ireland,is supposed to be flying on certain days on british goverment buildings,enniskillen council do not fly it,for what reason i do not know,maybe because last time it was put up,the town hall was bombed,if that isent antagonism ,i do not know what is,personally i think those who are on the streets rioting should be rounded up and locked up.

What is missing in the thinking of Unionists is the fact that the GFA bestows special status on NI, it is not wholly British and not wholly Irish either. It is imperative that both identities construct a society that fairly reflects the shared identities. Beligerent displays like this one are not and should not, be allowed in the spirit of the agreement. Seems to me a simple acceptance of the fact (that the Union Jack is an antagonistic emblem if used in this way) would be a huge leap forward. It is no accident that we are plunging into an abyss here.

maccored

'democracy' ... thats a bit of a dirty word at present.

maccored

getz wrote: »

this is a country that is british,and untill its voted otherwise ,it will stay british ,the union flag,like the tricolour is in ireland,is supposed to be flying on certain days on british goverment buildings,enniskillen council do not fly it,for what reason i do not know,maybe because last time it was put up,the town hall was bombed,if that isent antagonism ,i do not know what is,personally i think those who are on the streets rioting should be rounded up and locked up.

this isnt about enniskillen though

Also - it could be that damn democracy rearing its ugly head again, as the locals apparently seem to be mainly nationalist - http://www.irelandbyways.com/top-irish-peninsulas/irelands-northwest/enniskillen-environs/

However, 67% of the current population is registered as Roman Catholic, and a majority of locals vote for Nationalist and / or Republican representatives.

getz

sure joe wrote: »

thats fair enough. this is the flag of a people and army who have oppressed them for hundreds of years. they hate it. havethey been flying the tricolour to atagonise the unionist

this is a country that is british,and untill its voted otherwise ,it will stay british ,the union flag,like the tricolour is in ireland,is supposed to be flying on certain days on british goverment buildings,enniskillen council do not fly it,for what reason i do not know,maybe because last time it was put up,the town hall was bombed,if that isent antagonism ,i do not know what is,personally i think those who are on the streets rioting should be rounded up and locked up.

sure joe

getz wrote: »

you meen like republicans have refused to allow the union flag to be flown over enniskillen town hall for the last 20 years,

thats fair enough. this is the flag of a people and army who have oppressed them for hundreds of years. they hate it. havethey been flying the tricolour to atagonise the unionist

getz

SoulandForm wrote: »

Look oscar Loyalism kicked off the last troubles and they are trying to kick off another round.

Republicans of all stripes have been extremely restrained. You should be praising them for that.

you meen like republicans have refused to allow the union flag to be flown over enniskillen town hall for the last 20 years,