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David McKittrick; These protests are NOT over the flag.

SoulandForm

Given that he is from an Ulster Protestant background, hardly sympathetic to militant Republicanism and that this is appearing in a mainstream British newspaper I hope that those who have expressed veiled sympathy for the protesters or criticized the Alliance Party for reaching the compromise it did with Nationalism and Republicanism will pay attention to what he has to say.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/these-belfast-riots-arent-over-the-flag--but-the-creation-of-a-fairer-society-8444651.html

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junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

Order from Whitehall to help incite violence and so bring an end to the order brought in by the GFA?

Ireland is a very, very funny place sir, its a strange and troubled land...

I think you need to take your tin foil hat of

SoulandForm

Order from Whitehall to help incite violence and so bring an end to the order brought in by the GFA?

Ireland is a very, very funny place sir, its a strange and troubled land...

junder wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxO-7UL70uI

CNN international news report

junder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxO-7UL70uI

CNN international news report

SoulandForm

blahfckingblah wrote: »

so nearly 70 % are what? spoonfeeding

I think that the really dangerous elements have been removed from the PSNI. I could be wrong- but I would like proof that I am.

I believe that the UK state wishes to remain in Northern Ireland; therefore it needs its Loyalists mobs as a potential back up so it cant go to hard on them though interestingly enough when the BA arrived in Northern Ireland in 69 they murdered some loyalist kids throwing stones at them which of course has gone forgotten. So the Loyalists can take liberties- but how far can they push the envelop?

SoulandForm

Its ironic that its militant Loyalists and not the Real IRA who have destroyed the illusion of normalization and the "peace process". They obviously want to smash the order created by the GFA; but what do they want in its place? Re-partition along sectarian lines? The nationalist community to develop an affection for British Imperialism and its symbols by making them late getting home in the evenings? A return to the old ways of the first Stormount regime with the ever growing CNR community staying in Northern Ireland; but how to achieve that? This decision was made by a local council and NOT the regional assembly; so deprive the tea eggs and "rotten prods"/lundys of their votes?

blahfckingblah

junder wrote: »

30% of the Psni are catholic, would they be unionist?

so nearly 70 % are what? spoonfeeding

GRMA

junder wrote: »

30% of the Psni are catholic, would they be unionist?

30% of the RUC when it was set up were catholic too.

When will people like you learn.

junder

sure joe wrote: »

you say mantaining good relations with the police. given the police were a unionist organisation, there never was any good relations with the nationalist community.

30% of the Psni are catholic, would they be unionist?

sure joe

junder wrote: »

as part of maintaining good relations with the police, at thier request the protesters where I live leave one lane open in either direction so traffic can still move, would nationalists be prepared to do the same in a protest?

you say mantaining good relations with the police. given the police were a unionist organisation, there never was any good relations with the nationalist community.

junder

GRMA wrote: »

Blocking roads is illegal. Dispite the reluctance of the PSNI to uphold the law.

Law and Order eh? When it's orange.

A lane free In each direction means the road is not blocked

blahfckingblah

junder wrote: »

as part of maintaining good relations with the police, at thier request the protesters where I live leave one lane open in either direction so traffic can still move, would nationalists be prepared to do the same in a protest?

republicans arent currently protesting against democracy

GRMA

Blocking roads is illegal. Dispite the reluctance of the PSNI to uphold the law.

Law and Order eh? When it's orange.

junder

GRMA wrote: »

These are illegal protests.

You support illegal protests?

They are not illegal where I live, no dispersal order has yet to be issued

junder

sure joe wrote: »

so presumably you would support residents rights to block roads to prevent bigoted organisations like the orange order marching through nationalist areas

as part of maintaining good relations with the police, at thier request the protesters where I live leave one lane open in either direction so traffic can still move, would nationalists be prepared to do the same in a protest?

GRMA

junder wrote: »

No I don't. I do however believe that other community's should follow my areas example and maintain good relations with the police facilitating the protests and keep the protest entirely peaceful.

These are illegal protests.

You support illegal protests?

sure joe

junder wrote: »

I am TA solider which means part time, I am a full time civilian and while I have not personally taken part In anybprotests I still support my community's right to peaceful protest, which is exactly what has been happening in the community I live in. I do don't live, nor am I part of anything that is going on in east Belfast.

so presumably you would support residents rights to block roads to prevent bigoted organisations like the orange order marching through nationalist areas

junder

GRMA wrote: »

Since the loyalist community have proven themselves incapable of having peaceful protests over the course of the last month and longer on this topic all protests should be cancelled so things can calm down before someone gets killed

Dont you agree?

No I don't. I do however believe that other community's should follow my areas example and maintain good relations with the police facilitating the protests and keep the protest entirely peaceful.

blahfckingblah

junder wrote: »

I am TA solider which means part time, I am a full time civilian and while I have not personally taken part In anybprotests I still support my community's right to peaceful protest, which is exactly what has been happening in the community I live in. I do don't live, nor am I part of anything that is going on in east Belfast.

i also support your communities right to peaceful protest, however...

GRMA

junder wrote: »

I am TA solider which means part time, I am a full time civilian and while I have not personally taken part In anybprotests I still support my community's right to peaceful protest, which is exactly what has been happening in the community I live in. I do don't live, nor am I part of anything that is going on in east Belfast.

Since the loyalist community have proven themselves incapable of having peaceful protests over the course of the last month and longer on this topic all protests should be cancelled so things can calm down before someone gets killed

Dont you agree?

junder

GRMA wrote: »

Its amazing that a member of the security forces can be even ambivalent (I'm feeling generous today) about these protests given the large amount of injured PSNI officers and attempted murders of other officers

I am TA solider which means part time, I am a full time civilian and while I have not personally taken part In anybprotests I still support my community's right to peaceful protest, which is exactly what has been happening in the community I live in. I do don't live, nor am I part of anything that is going on in east Belfast.

SoulandForm

GRMA wrote: »

Its amazing that a member of the security forces can be even ambivalent (I'm feeling generous today) about these protests given the large amount of injured PSNI officers and attempted murders of other officers

In fairness we are talking about a member of the Army and not the PSNI.

The British Army is a singular institution.

In the 1970s the hope was for a right wing coup ( which when you consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Column_88 which was tied into the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio which carried out massive terrorist attacks in Italy as part of a "strategy of tension was a possibility) that would "deal" with the problems of Northern Ireland with maximum force and minimum concern for human life, at least if it was fenian, among hardline Loyalists.

These days that happening is highly unlikely. What is it that Junder and his friend organizing these protests hopes for now?

GRMA

Its amazing that a member of the security forces can be even ambivalent (I'm feeling generous today) about these protests given the large amount of injured PSNI officers and attempted murders of other officers

SoulandForm

Junder is what you are hoping for re-partition along sectarian lines?

blahfckingblah

what time is kickoff tonight?

Cavehill Red

junder wrote: »

Perhaps you should read the articule in full, since he reiterates what he previously said in that there are elements of the UVF involved namely east Belfast. He still had not said that the UVF are involved and that what UVF is involved are local to east Belfast and not directed from the central UVF leadership, perhaps this is why the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland still believes THE UVF's ceasefire intact

Are we reading the same article? Allow me to quote: Mr Baggott said: "Senior members of the UVF in east Belfast as individuals have been increasingly orchestrating some of this violence.
"That is utterly unacceptable and is being done for their own selfish motives."

junder

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm embarrassed for you -

http://www.u.tv/News/UVF-members-behind-flag-trouble/88468242-4c5a-4e07-a3c4-3dba8ad46ed4

Perhaps you should read the articule in full, since he reiterates what he previously said in that there are elements of the UVF involved namely east Belfast. He still had not said that the UVF are involved and that what UVF is involved are local to east Belfast and not directed from the central UVF leadership, perhaps this is why the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland still believes THE UVF's ceasefire intact

Cavehill Red

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So if the people next to Hutchinson were UVF members, why not arrest them on the spot ?

Why don't they arrest Martin McGuinness while they're at it? He's a confirmed PIRA member. The answer is because such people are engaged in the political process. With McGuinness, he's come in from the cold and it would destabilise the political structures to arrest him. With the UVF leadership, the PSNI are aware that to lift them off the streets would similarly destabilise those parts of the city which are held under their thrall.
From my perspective, I'd be happy to see the PSNI arrest them. I think they're dinosaurs who failed politically and have now reverted to their habitual barbarism, and that it would benefit the rest of us to see them all behind bars.
Perhaps the PSNI are waiting to see what the historical cases unit turns up so as to throw the book at them. One can always hope.

Cavehill Red

junder wrote: »

My bad, I thought matt baggot was in the Psni. And here was me thinking he was the Psni boss

I'm embarrassed for you -

http://www.u.tv/News/UVF-members-behind-flag-trouble/88468242-4c5a-4e07-a3c4-3dba8ad46ed4

junder

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Or you could go by what the PSNI said.

My bad, I thought matt baggot was in the Psni. And here was me thinking he was the Psni boss

Cavehill Red

junder wrote: »

I go by what mat baggot said, but I will bow to the obviously superior knowledge of boards.ie of who's who in the UVF

Or you could go by what the PSNI said.