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If Hitler Won the War

chops018

http://headrambles.com/2011/11/15/if-hitler-won-the-war/

Do you ever wonder what the world would be like if Hitler had won the last war?

It’s impossible to say precisely of course, but we can take a rough guess.

First of all, Hitler may have had some fairly weird ideas but he was no fool. He wouldn’t have just created a vast Germany spreading across Europe. That would be too difficult to control. It would have made sense to leave each country as it was and even to allow democratic elections to keep the people mollified. Needless to say, those democratically elected governments would have no say and would be mere puppets, with Berlin pulling the strings. If the people elected someone who was opposed to Berlin, he would be quietly removed and replaced with a party lapdog.

Hitler, amongst other things was a health fanatic. He believed in total abstinence from alcohol, was a vegetarian and had a hatred of smoking. It is likely therefore that there would be a load of restrictions on what we ate or drank. He couldn’t have banned alcohol or tobacco as that would have led to outright rebellion, but he would have imposed severe restrictions……

Hang on………

This is beginning to sound vaguely familiar?

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jjbrien

Did any of you see the movie fatherland? Its fiction but it shows what would have happened if hitlar won the war

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SS94vFjbP4

Ryu Hayabusa

Davidth88 wrote: »

You would have seen the continuation of the persecutions of the racial minorities , so in Ireland you could expect any Jews , travellers etc wiped out.

+1 My support for Hitler

Capt'n Midnight

Wibbs wrote: »

Well hitler and some of his cronies were initially quite supportive of a Jewish homeland/Israel as one "solution" to the "Jewish problem", so Israel may well have come to be anyway.

Madagascar (French colony) was to have been used if they could have got safe shipping there.

Had Malta been taken ....

Maybe not. If hostilites had died down officially, guerrilla war may have also died down quickly enough, especially if the reich economy benefited locals. Where they really fooked up was with their daft racial purity guff. If they had said to the Russians "do you wanna be part of the reich?" they would have found many, if not millions of Russians who wanted shot of Stalin and his bully boys. I read one account by a russian pilot stationed outside a village in Russia who noticed the locals started breaking out their religious stuff and going to church services again and the same locals were suprised the germans allowed that. The locals even handed u the local party spy(apparently these were usually schoolteachers) There was a lot of hostility to Stalin and the party. A hostility the germans daftly didn't take advantage of.

Given the reception they got when they 'liberated' parts of the East they could have done it differently.

Instead of letting 3 million Russian POW's to starve to death / die of disease and mistreatment they could have signed up a sizeable number of them (people at a faster rate than during the Holocaust) . Later on one million Russian Hiwi fought in the Germany army. Stalin's Order 270 would have proved a very good recruiting tool.

Huge mistake and a huge waste human life.

FloatingVoter

Ryu Hayabusa wrote: »

+1 My support for Hitler

You could even sing a song in his honour while breaking your back in a slave labour camp.

Wibbs

FloatingVoter wrote: »

It was just an exaggerated Paris. Speer was an adequate architect and Hitler a failed artist. Making everything bigger doesn't make it better.

True, though Hitler wasn't that bad an artist. Quite competent with architectural subjects actually.

Rebelkell wrote: »

We all would have got a nasty surprise as the nazi's viewed us a step above the Jews on par with the slavs.

And no the nazis didn't regard us as a "step above the Jews on par with the slavs". He had Irish relatives by marriage. Indeed the Nazi propaganda ministry produced quite a few Pro Irish and British movies for German audiences.

Still at least there would be no itinerant gangs driving around the country beating up old people.

Oh FFS Can we have a special Boards godwin regarding Travelers? Call it the Connors maybe.

Doc Ruby

Meh, even if he won against the Allies, he'd have lost against Darth Vader after Star Wars came out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFA-rOls8YA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeLrlmV9A-s

Wibbs

Difference Engine wrote: »

If Hitler won the war AH wouldn't have a PC brigade to complain about. There'd be no threads about Islam, gay marriage wouldn't be an issue and certainly no immigrants to worry about.

Welfare threads would be a thing of the past (as would most welfare recipients). Mods would actually be the Gestapo instead of just being compared to them.

Cats and beards would be the only topics of the day.

It would be a mods dream really, just there'd be no one left to moderate as all you bleeding heart liberals would have been sent east.

The big thing about all this conjecture is even if he had won, change would happen over time. Its a given. Hell AH wouldnt exist in it's current form is the interweb had been around in 1950's Ireland. Hell it would have been on thin enough ice as late as the 1970's. The Irish media, bad enough as it can be today was heavily controlled by state and church in this country from the get go. Censorship was very strong and basic shíte like divorce etc came very recently to this nation. Nazism would have been a nice enough fit, just like it was in catholic Italy(and Germany), though in both cases lone clerics bravely took stands while the church itself hedged it's bets.

Stillweak

bluecode wrote: »

Complete nonsense. You are merely exposing your prejudice. There is absolutely no comparison. Plus this is completely irrelevant to the subject of this thread. It's people like you and Hitler who made Jews seek to get away from persecution and set up their own country.

You're right it's off topic but the other guy and now you are bringing the conversation there.
I have no prejudice. I am equally against atrocities from all over the world and throughout history regardless of the race or religion.
Pathetic that you play the old tried and tested prejudice card to get your point across. (whatever it is because in 8 lines you said nothing)
How are hitler and I to be compared. He started a war and caused the death of millions, all I said was that there is mistreatment and murder in the middle east. The number of civilians killed by Israel well documented so what I said is a fact.

SafeSurfer

Europe may be in a stronger position today if the Germans had won the war. The cold war would have been largely Europe, led by Germany vs. the Us, instead of Eastern Europe, led by the USSR vs. the US and western Europe. European democracies were thin on the ground at the time, Spain and Portugal were facist powers and all democracies had facist groups of varying strengths.
A facist Europe, led by Germany would have been a bleak place for many ethnic groups and personal freedoms would be severely restricted in much the same vein as they were under communism in eastern Europe. It would however have been a pretty good place to live for Germans, Scandinavians and ethnic groups not considered untermenschen.
I believe the US would still have had a scientific edge as they reaped the brain drain caused by persecution in German conquered areas. A showdown with a fascist controlled Europe would have been very difficult for the US however if they did not have British bases for their bombers and keeping public opinion onside for a democracy is much more difficult than for a totalitarian regime, especially militaristic regimes like the Nazis.

Of course we are free to speculate on how things would have turned out if the Nazis had won World War 2. My views are tempered by the belief that if in a parallel universe in which the Nazis had indeed won, someone wished to speculate on what the world would be like if the Allies had won the war, they would not be able to do so without the risk of arrest.

Latchy

chops018 wrote: »

First of all, Hitler may have had some fairly weird ideas but he was no fool.

As I posted in the other Hitler thread ...

If Hitler had let his generals get on and make important decisions in the field of battle there may have been a different outcome to the war but no , the interfering old git had to have the last say in everything and precisely why Germany lost the war . Hitler fought his battles on maps, thousands of miles away and was no military strategist... his egomania got in the way of the reality's of war.

Stillweak

[Quote=Wibbs;82634734
That was my entire point, initially is the important part. The final solution was more a psychotic rush job. If success had come early enough expulsion of Jews to another area might have been more attractive/cheaper(after nicking all their assets of course). Have an oul perusal of this. Some Zionist groups actively sought support from some among Hitlers staff. He himself was variable on the idea, but mostly pro.[/Quote]

You said Israel may have come about because initially it was seen as a solution ....
I'm saying that idea didnt follow-through and the nazis went another route. Therefor Israel would not have come about.
In your hast to disagree with everything I said your rushed comments were incorrect.

Zebra3

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Eichmann was sent to Palestine and promptly got deported investigating this possibility.

The collusion between zionists and the nazis did happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transfer_Agreement

murphyaii

the world would be full of nazi ufo's controlled by the third reich.
only people who were blond with blue eyes would exist and all others got rid of.
the aryan mythology would come through

laugh

Fatherland a book based in such a place.

keithclancy

jjbrien wrote: »

Did any of you see the movie fatherland? Its fiction but it shows what would have happened if hitlar won the war

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SS94vFjbP4

Deadly .... I'm cracking open a beer ...

TwoShedsJackson

chops018 wrote: »

First of all, Hitler may have had some fairly weird ideas...

Admirable understatement.

Has anyone mentioned Fatherland yet?

Capt'n Midnight

Wibbs wrote: »

Hell AH wouldnt exist in it's current form is the interweb had been around in 1950's Ireland.

Had Hitler won the war in Europe CERN would have been setup earlier in the hunt for the next superweapon

who knows we could have had some interweb in 1959

donvito99

laugh wrote: »

Fatherland a book based in such a place.

And a brilliant one at that. Enigma also.

Latchy

I love Downfall ,the last days of the Third Reich

( the Hitler parody's on you tube are hilarious to )

FloatingVoter

Zebra3 wrote: »

The collusion between zionists and the nazis did happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transfer_Agreement

I'm well aware of the naive collaboration. The authorities at the time were suspicious of Germans with fake passports. Eichmann was passing himself off as someone else which will get you flung out of any country/territory as fast as a rabbit.

P_1

Nazism, Politics and Gambling in the same AH thread?

Do we have a bingo?

Beasty

If Hitler had won the war I reckon the chances of all our respective parents meeting at the precise time they did and doing exactly what they did do at a time approximately 9 months before each of us was born is pretty negligible, and it's highly likely that none of us would be around to discuss his legacy ...

... who knows what would have happened to anyone born before 1945 by now

FloatingVoter

Beasty wrote: »

If Hitler had won the war I reckon the chances of all our respective parents meeting at the precise time they did and doing exactly what they did do at a time approximately 9 months before each of us was born is pretty negligible, and it's highly likely that none of us would be around to discuss his legacy ...

... who knows what would have happened to anyone born before 1945 by now

Exactly, we'd probably not exist. I'd imagine a nuclear war would have developed in the 1950's with utter nutters Stalin, Himmler (yes, Hitler was on the way out) in charge. We're lucky that Ike, Kennedy and Krushchev were around to stop the Cold War turning hot.

Latchy

pithater1 wrote: »

Nazism, Politics and Gambling in the same AH thread?

Do we have a bingo?

Inglorious Bastards .

Wibbs

bluecode wrote: »

In fact it was almost impossible for Hitler and Germany to win the war. He completely underestimated the Soviets for a start and he had no regard for the Americans. If he had he would never have gone to war with either of them. Plus he was a crap general who ignored all professional military advice.

Very true. I think they might have won the war or forced a peace if adolf had stood back and let his generals work, though they would have needed a lot of luck. Possible scenario? They near as dammit wipe out the BEF at Dunkirk, don't bother with a battle of Britain and simply corral the UK and try and starve them to the table. Then delay attacking Russia until they have Europe sorted and don't sign any pact with Japan.

Then again militarily their big problem was they were for the most part based around the army and tactical in nature, not strategic. They had good weapons, but not suited to strategic purposes. No long range bombers for a start. Their bombers were almost exclusively engaged as part of infantry support. This was a major disadvantage which became greater with time.

But there is one thing many people don't consider. Hitler was a sick man by 1945, not helped by his quack of a Doctor. He would not have survived much longer anyway even if there wasn't another attempt to kill him.

The thing to remember is that the German military took an oath of loyalty directly to Hitler. When he died so did the oath. Hitler was very careful to keep his cronies at each others throats. So there was no natural successor. There could easily have been a something of a civil war between the SS and the German army led by different factions. Himmler fancied the job. So did Goering and the military generally despised the Nazis. Once released from their oath they would happily have rounded up all the Nazi leadership and shot the lot.

It could have been very messy indeed.

True. IIRC Hitler's idea was the Fuhrer title would pass on, but voted in by a nazi senate. More likely might be that the various local states run by prominent nazis would be a loose collection of mini states vying with each other. Like you I reckon the military would have tried to wrest power for themselves, so a likely leader might have been a general or field marshal. Himmler I reckon wouldn't have lasted long. Outside the SS he was disliked even hated, even within the SS particularly the fighting men on the ground he wasn't respected like other figures. The allies thought him a prick and a joke and they ignored his entreaties to talk in the end game. Goering had been wildly popular before the war. Old war hero and all that, but by 1940 was pretty much ridiculed and increasingly ignored by those around him and his men, plus he was a major morphine junkie so the brain was gone. Rommel would have been a shoe in for the job had he lived. Not a full blown nazi(tho a major follower of hitler), so palatable for the more "liberal" and a well respected military leader loved by his troops, plus liked and admired by his enemies, who might be willing to talk with him.

In the end thank fook this thread is speculation and they failed.

Wibbs

FloatingVoter wrote: »

We're lucky that Ike, Kennedy and Krushchev were around to stop the Cold War turning hot.

I'd take Kennedy out of that list myself. Bit of a hothead. Look at the Cuban crisis.

Latchy

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd take Kennedy out of that list myself. Bit of a hothead. Look at the Cuban crisis.

By his own admission he screwed up at the Bay Of Pigs but that was because he wasn't privy to what the CIA were really up to down in Cuba ( ''murder Inc '' as president Johnson was later to describe it) until it was to late so he pulled the plug on any support and that made him look very weak but he and his brother Bobby must take credit for the handling of the Missile Crisis the following year .

Dostoevsky

He didn't; if a single country won the war it was the USSR, but that's a history which rarely gets the light of day amid the saturation of British media in Ireland.

If Hitler had won the war, his revolution would most likely not have been sustained by virtue of the fact that most revolutions are not sustained.

I can't help but think that this incessant focus on Hitler and the Nazis, à la the History Channel's programme schedule, is designed for very British nationalist reasons, namely to distract from or justify 400 years of British colonialism and brutality against indigenous peoples. After centuries of the British state and its servants being the perpetrators of evil, they finally found themselves fighting a more organised, structured and efficient evil than British imperialism. Hallelujah, for them.

dd972

Dostoevsky wrote: »

He didn't; if a single country won the war it was the USSR, but that's a history which rarely gets the light of day amid the saturation of British media in Ireland.

If Hitler had won the war, his revolution would most likely not have been sustained by virtue of the fact that most revolutions are not sustained.

I can't help but think that this incessant focus on Hitler and the Nazis, à la the History Channel's programme schedule, is designed for very British nationalist reasons, namely to distract from or justify 400 years of British colonialism and brutality against indigenous peoples. After centuries of the British state and its servants being the perpetrators of evil, they finally found themselves fighting a more organised, structured and efficient evil than British imperialism. Hallelujah, for them.

Good point, if you live in the UK there's almost a weekly reference to the Nazi's in the tabloids, the Brits are responsible for far more deaths overall.

RandomName2

chops018 wrote: »

http://headrambles.com/2011/11/15/if-hitler-won-the-war/

Do you ever wonder what the world would be like if Hitler had won the last war?

It’s impossible to say precisely of course, but we can take a rough guess.

First of all, Hitler may have had some fairly weird ideas but he was no fool. He wouldn’t have just created a vast Germany spreading across Europe. That would be too difficult to control. It would have made sense to leave each country as it was and even to allow democratic elections to keep the people mollified. Needless to say, those democratically elected governments would have no say and would be mere puppets, with Berlin pulling the strings. If the people elected someone who was opposed to Berlin, he would be quietly removed and replaced with a party lapdog.

Hitler, amongst other things was a health fanatic. He believed in total abstinence from alcohol, was a vegetarian and had a hatred of smoking. It is likely therefore that there would be a load of restrictions on what we ate or drank. He couldn’t have banned alcohol or tobacco as that would have led to outright rebellion, but he would have imposed severe restrictions……

Hang on………

This is beginning to sound vaguely familiar?

A serious reply to the OP (on After Hours - am I mad?)

Well nationaism has always been very strong in Europe, and this would refuse to go away as a problem for the Reich. Particularly in the case for France, which would have been far reduced in strength - having Alsace-Lorainne incorporated into Germany and its foreign colonies siphoned off to powers like Japan (either officially or unoffically).

Also Hitler would be unable to conquer Russia. He could defeat the USSR and Stalin, but he would have been unable to keep on pushing beyond the Urals. Add to that the fact that the USA would always have been hostile to the Reich - and would have been able to defeat imperial Japan despite the efforts of Germany and Italy.

If the Reich had been able to fob off the people of Europe and make them believe they were in control of their own destinies, and not foster too much dissent, then a stable European hegemony may have been possible. Dunno if Hitler - who was known for being less than pragmatic in these regards, would have been able to pull that off. Stalin was able to, mind you, and he was far bloodier a butcher than Hitler.