Thoie wrote: » Management reserves the right to do themselves out of custom. I'd have contacted the bunch already in there and got them to walk out to join you en masse, handing their pints to the bouncer on the way out.
kryogen wrote: » Meh, not exactly a big deal is it? Your missus did not meet the criteria for entry, could the bouncer have let her in? Of course, but he didnt have to and he is not doing anything wrong in refusing her. Just dont go there in future if it bugged you that much
Bluezar wrote: » I went to go into Sinnotts on Sat night with my girlfriend. I'm living abroad at the moment and was delighted to get home for weekend to see my mates. We had a few drinks in Shortts to start and my mates left first and we agreed to follow them 5 mins later. Neither of us drunk at this stage. Got to Sinnotts and the bouncer would not leave my girlfriend in with me as she is not 21 for another 5 weeks. I'm 22, all my mates are 21 plus and were inside waiting for us. Tried to reason with the bouncer and he just said no chance and to go away. Said they are going to 23's soon. Told me to go to the foundry instead when my brother and mates inside. What a complete idiot Surely a bit of common sense should prevail. Thoughts?
Bluezar wrote: » Well they have lost a few customers out of this. Just thought it was completely ridiculous
Bluezar wrote: » Just thought it was a bit ridiculous in fairness
Bluezar wrote: » Surely a bit of common sense should prevail. Thoughts?
tombliboo83 wrote: » Actually it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of age. If the sole reason they gave is because she was under 21 then that is wrong. A past owner of that partiular bar as successfully sued for this as it breaches eu law. No matter what they put on the door if you're over 18 they can't (legally) turn you away based on age.
Adyx wrote: » It's perfectly legal under Irish law, so which EU law does it break?
Dicky Pride wrote: » Have to laugh at the typical boards attitude of all the replies. "Rules are rules". - but if one were in the op's position you'd be just as pissed off. The op has every right to be pissed off because the last time I was in sinnotts, on Halloween night, it was full of under 21 students. Common sense should have prevailed here but the bouncer was being a prick. It was probably a busy night...if it was a night this weekend coming you can be sure that they wouldn't be as strict. Pubs do themselves no favours by acting like this.
Bluezar wrote: » This is it exactly, I'm not looking for sympathy or a court case! Basically, I was pissed off because I just thought it was needless, it was dead in there anyway so it's not like they need to be selective. Bouncer told me they were going to over 23's soon so I won't get in myself next time. I was really just suggesting that a bit of common sense should have prevailed here, my dads a publican and i'm sure he would have used a bit of common sense in this situation.
Avox wrote: » It's not illegal to refuse right of entry, but it's illegal to change the age requirements on a nightly basis. If the venue is always over 21, it's legal, but if the venue is 18's on one night and 21's on another, it's illegal, but usually not worth the cost/hassle of taking action against. One example was of a nightclub in Cork doing something similar, a student took up the action and won out his case but it ended up costing a lot!
Adyx wrote: » That's not what tombliboo83 said though, he said refusing admission on the basis of age is a breach of EU law. Under Irish law, as long as the age restrictions are posted at the door and applied in good faith this is perfectly legal. I'm just curious as to what EU law supersedes this.
sparkling sea wrote: » What are you talking about buoy Give it up buoy Go on, under what statute or legislation is it legal; Under what Irish Law that supercedes the EU's ESA's EEA's would this be. Once EU law has been incorporated into Irish law it supercedes the existing Irish legislation, unless its a Constitutional issue then a referendum is needed.
Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 wrote: (4) If— (a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a specified age which exceeds 18 years, (b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous place in or on the exterior of the premises, and (c) the policy is implemented in good faith, a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not constitute discrimination on the age ground.
Adyx wrote: » The word is boy (I assume that's what you're trying to say) and what exactly would you like me to give up? Anyway this must be at least my third or fourth time posting this in this forum but again: Now again I ask: What EU law supersedes this?
sparkling sea wrote: » You seem to be having a bit of difficulty with the EU law, incorporation and how it then supercedes domestic law. I think you missed this bit - you've missed alot more as well 25.— Section 15 of the Equal Status Act 2000 is amended by the addition of the following subsections: “(3) (a) This subsection applies to the option given under subsection (2), (3) or (4) of section 34 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 1988 to the holder of a licence of any licensed premises to allow a person under 18 to be in the bar of those premises at the times, or in the circumstances, specified in those subsections. (b) The non-exercise of the option to which this subsection applies shall not of itself constitute discrimination. (c) The reference in paragraph (a) to section 34 is to that section as substituted by section 14 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003. (4) If— (a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a specified age which exceeds 18 years, (b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous place in or on the exterior of the premises, and (c) the policy is implemented in good faith, a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not constitute discrimination on the age ground. (5) Subsections (3) and (4) are without prejudice to subsections (1) and (2).”. Section 15.1 and 15.2 as referred to above 15.—(1) For greater certainty, nothing in this Act prohibiting discrimination shall be construed as requiring a person to dispose of goods or premises, or to provide services or accommodation or services and amenities related to accommodation, to another person (“the customer”) in circumstances which would lead a reasonable individual having the responsibility, knowledge and experience of the person to the belief, on grounds other than discriminatory grounds, that the disposal of the goods or premises or the provision of the services or accommodation or the services and amenities related to accommodation, as the case may be, to the customer would produce a substantial risk of criminal or disorderly conduct or behaviour or damage to property at or in the vicinity of the place in which the goods or services are sought or the premises or accommodation are located. (2) Action taken in good faith by or on behalf of the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits the sale of intoxicating liquor, for the sole purpose of ensuring compliance with the provisions of the Licensing Acts, 1833 to 1999, shall not constitute discrimination. Section 25 contains two amendments to the Equal Status Act 2000. The second amendment provides that; a licensee may set a minimum age for the sale and consumption of alcohol which is above the statutory minimum of 18 as long as the policy is publicly displayed and is implemented in a non-discriminatory manner. This must be fully compliant with the superceding articles 15.1 and 15.2 of the Equal Status Act. This is not the case with Sinnotts or hardly any other pub in Ireland for that matter - you cannot stick up a poster which says over 21's, 23's etc and then allow one person under this age into your premises and refuse another, your action negates your sign or poster and means nothing. You cannot take S25.4 out of context or just cherry pick as you are doing. In really life Ireland these signs are not legal because all the criteria need to allow for them is virtually never met and this is easily provable Even if all the criteria is met by some super totally compliant pub or club in Ireland; not allowing someone to enter a pub, club,etc on the grounds of age and refusing to sell alcohol to someone on the grounds of age is not the same thing, not everyone who goes out drinks alcohol - what grounds justifies refusing non drinkers who are 18 or over entry.
Adyx wrote: » What is the criteria needed to implement an over 21's (or whatever) policy in a non-discriminatory manner? What is this EU law that supersedes the Irish law. You're posting in a very confrontational and accusatory style by the way, I'm just curious and asking for information.
mitosis wrote: » Let me see if I understand OP. You want the house rule, over 21 only, not to apply to your friend? Is she special? Other than to you? If she was riding the doorman and he still said no, you might have some beef. But she didn't even try that, I'll bet. So she's only special to you. Jesus, Judge, gimme a break, she'll be of the age of consent in 5 weeks :pac:
