Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] Poll Reset

Terms and conditions, oh and read section 32 and chapter 24.-34 in the bible. It's all in their folks.

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Residual Gap: Eur15bn.
Interest on debt component: Eur7bn.

Real deficit: Eur8bn.
Budget 2012 impact: Eur: 2bn (ish).

We're gettin there....
Another few tough budgets (Eur6bn) and we can negotiate a proper agreement. Keep it to yourselves, but the Europeans can then stick the Bank debt, and a lump of the balance where the sun doesn't shine!

Isn't that wonderful waves Irish flag. It's honestly just the same scam and bull**** over and over. No matter what happens, the taxman want's your money and he will draw blood and stone out of anyone to get it. What job has the taxman? To take money from another. If anyone comes to my door looking for money. I'd tell them to f**k off. If you went to the taxman's door for money, what do you think he'd do? Hand you money? The whole system is corrupt to the oore. To now pay tax for a house you actually own is a nail in the coffin....

The ****ing hypocrisy and stupidity about all of this is mind buzzing.

cocobear

Aquarius34 wrote: »

So when you had to pay food, you starved and paid the tax instead?

I am sorry but that's pathetic.

Thankfully Aquarius34, I am not starving, have 4 kids and a, mid 2007 boom mortgage and all that goes with it, we budget tightly otherwise we wouldn't do, we have no luxuries and are both working hard and are if truth be known barely keep our heads above water, and we are both for the first times in our lives becoming totally disillusioned with life in this country and the spineless bastards that are supposed to be running the country. How you can make a statement that what I originally posted is pathetic is beyond me it truly is.

cocobear wrote: »

Thankfully Aquarius34, I am not starving, have 4 kids and a, mid 2007 boom mortgage and all that goes with it, we budget tightly otherwise we wouldn't do, we have no luxuries and are both working hard and are if truth be known barely keep our heads above water, and we are both for the first times in our lives becoming totally disillusioned with life in this country and the spineless bastards that are supposed to be running the country. How you can make a statement that what I originally posted is pathetic is beyond me it truly is.

If you are struggling to live why the hell would you pay tax to a house you own and have worked your life for. It's already hard enough living in a world as slave to live. Now this? To pay tax is delusional, but this form of tax just proves that humanity is truly fu**ked over. it's delusional beyond my imagination. If people are willing to pay on this are we going to live in a world where everything imaginable will be taxed?

Ever hear of the word No?
Exercise it. The taxman will give up eventually.

I didn't fill out the census form and that's a criminal offence. I love when they use adjectives like that when you do something they don't agree with. I am not going to be a statistic or a slave for anyone. They can threaten all they like. I still say no. I don't take demands from anyone. You mightn't think it but when I say no I am calm about it. Then I slam the door

cocobear

Aquarius34 wrote: »

If you are struggling to live why the hell would you pay tax to a house you own and have worked your life for. It's already hard enough living in a world as slave to live. Now this? To pay tax is delusional, but this form of tax just proves that humanity is truly fu**ked over. it's delusional beyond my imagination. If people are willing to pay on this are we going to live in a world where everything imaginable will be taxed?

Ever hear of the word No?
Exercise it. The taxman will give up eventually.

I didn't fill out the census form and that's a criminal offence. I love when they use adjectives like that when you do something they don't agree with. I am not going to be a statistic or a slave for anyone. They can threaten all they like. I still say no. I don't take demands from anyone. You mightn't think it but when I say no I am calm about it. Then I slam the door

Fair play for sticking to your principles, but I dont think there is any escaping this tax,
The consequences of not paying now are not too bad, but this will quickly get out of hand, in the next few years, when handed over to the local authorities. Then it will. Be a shock to a lot of the people who have not paid, what they actually owe, and will be an unmanageable debt to them., and source of emense pressure and worry., with I suspect the feeling of "f##k I should have paid this from the start"
We are upto date with it and that's a choice we made to avoid stress and worry in the future, because we have no savings ,to pay a large demand in the future, as I said in my original post each to their own!

cocobear wrote: »

Fair play for sticking to your principles, but I dont think there is any escaping this tax,
The consequences of not paying now are not too bad, but this will quickly get out of hand, in the next few years, when handed over to the local authorities. Then it will. Be a shock to a lot of the people who have not paid, what they actually owe, and will be an unmanageable debt to them., and source of emense pressure and worry., with I suspect the feeling of "f##k I should have paid this from the start"
We are upto date with it and that's a choice we made to avoid stress and worry in the future, because we have no savings ,to pay a large demand in the future, as I said in my original post each to their own!

this tax will be gone in a few years. theres an election a coming and theres 700k votes a begging. then we will have people bleating about "We want our money back. "how come 700k people get away without paying for it"

well ill tell you how, cause they stood up to FGs tyranical bully boy threats of jail, fines, courts, clipboards, shame in front of your neighbour, turning off the lights, closing the libraries, gas chambers, revenue officials.

they will never get this money from me.

Hijpo

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/hijp0/cars.jpg

58 brand new, 131reg, Audi A6 TDIs parked up at Farmleigh.

More taxes lads! we need more taxes!!!

Hijpo wrote: »

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k182/hijp0/cars.jpg

58 brand new, 131reg, Audi A6 TDIs parked up at Farmleigh.

More taxes lads! we need more taxes!!!

id love to jump down FGs throat about this, but it looks like they are sponsored by Audi.

but its not as if the Gov arent trying to waste money. ever wondered how much that tender for the EU ties and scarves cost?

Another €10m or so will be spent on scarves and neck-ties for the VIP guests.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/matt-cooper/eu-presidency-an-unnecessary-distraction-from-national-problems-217588.html

how many Audis would that buy? more than 58 i suspect

edit
FFS A Charvet tie is only E175

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

this tax will be gone in a few years. theres an election a coming and theres 700k votes a begging. then we will have people bleating about "We want our money back. "how come 700k people get away without paying for it"

well ill tell you how, cause they stood up to FGs tyranical bully boy threats of jail, fines, courts, clipboards, shame in front of your neighbour, turning off the lights, closing the libraries, gas chambers, revenue officials.

they will never get this money from me.

Are you giving a guarantee on this? If you are wrong can the people you led up the garden path come back to you for the money deducted from their wages or Social Welfare?

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Are you giving a guarantee on this? If you are wrong can the people you led up the garden path come back to you for the money deducted from their wages or Social Welfare?

are you giving your guarantee it wont be scrapped?

and will you give the people who paid, their money back, because you led them up the garden path of paying as you have actively encouraged payment

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Are you giving a guarantee on this? If you are wrong can the people you led up the garden path come back to you for the money deducted from their wages or Social Welfare?

I know it looks like I'm always singling you out DX, but I always seem to find holes in your posts...

Deductions from SW and wages/Salaries was a threat used by the Govt to the Household charge, with Hogan and co basically saying that 'non compliers would be tracked down using a variety of databases available to them, and the money would be taken (by force) from accounts/wages/SW etc'

To date, nobody has seen this happen, why?

Then, next up we can see that deduction from salary/wage is one method of payment that people can choose to take when signing up for the property tax.

I.E, you must consent to the money being deducted from you, and also you have to have already voluntarily signed up for the Property tax in the first place (signed up for the unexplained contract)

The fact that no one has, or no one will in the future be forcibly deducted at source would tell you what?
Maybe, just maybe they cannot do so legally, becuase if they could have, they would have, and they'd probably have gone for round two at this stage if they could go hell for leather on your private accounts and income source!

Its also interesting to see that there seems to be serious trouble in the Labour camp at the min, apparently 'civil war' is taking place behind closed doors, with Gilmore's leadership at stake.

If auld Eamon goes from the top, Labour (I believe) would have to withdraw from the Coalition, meaning a govt collapse, meaning a new general election, meaning what to the pro taxers on here?

Prob all hot air anyway, I mean its not even March yet.......

We know what hapens in March, don't we? Pensoions for life kicks in....:cool:

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Are you giving a guarantee on this? If you are wrong can the people you led up the garden path come back to you for the money deducted from their wages or Social Welfare?

For me to be right the status quo just remains. For you to be right a change has to happen. And if you are guaranteeing the change will happen then you must know the composition of the future coalition that will make it happen. So who is it?

There was no provision in the HHC legislation to allow deductions from wages or SW when private property owners did not comply in normal course. But this provision is in the LPT legislation as indeed is a clause to allow any source of income to be nominated for deductions. There are severe penalties for employers who break the law. And also for entities like the ESB for not handing over information when requested (€100 per day for each day for each case). And of course the Department ofSW will co-operate, it would be very strange if they refused.

cocobear wrote: »

Fair play for sticking to your principles, but I dont think there is any escaping this tax,
The consequences of not paying now are not too bad, but this will quickly get out of hand, in the next few years, when handed over to the local authorities. Then it will. Be a shock to a lot of the people who have not paid, what they actually owe, and will be an unmanageable debt to them., and source of emense pressure and worry., with I suspect the feeling of "f##k I should have paid this from the start"
We are upto date with it and that's a choice we made to avoid stress and worry in the future, because we have no savings ,to pay a large demand in the future, as I said in my original post each to their own!

Just wonder for how much longer You'll have to worry about this bunch being in power?:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/civil-war-in-labour-threatens-coalition-3343443.html

dxhound2005 wrote: »

For me to be right the status quo just remains. For you to be right a change has to happen.

are you saying change is less likely? cause last year the status quo was no HHC, this year we have one. thats change right there. 1996 we had a property tax, 1997 it was scrapped. more change right there

And if you are guaranteeing the change will happen then you must know the composition of the future coalition that will make it happen. So who is it?

i never guaranteed it, you brought up guarantees(yet strangely, you wont guarantee the tax will be here after the next election!!!:))...

...but as you ask, i believe it will either be the current crowd returned by a narrow margin or FF/SF. the way they are going the latter is more likely(god help us all!) and as both ff/sf are now opposed to the tax its also more likely they would have to scrap it.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

For me to be right the status quo just remains. For you to be right a change has to happen. And if you are guaranteeing the change will happen then you must know the composition of the future coalition that will make it happen. So who is it?

There was no provision in the HHC legislation to allow deductions from wages or SW when private property owners did not comply in normal course. But this provision is in the LPT legislation as indeed is a clause to allow any source of income to be nominated for deductions. There are severe penalties for employers who break the law. And also for entities like the ESB for not handing over information when requested (€100 per day for each day for each case). And of course the Department ofSW will co-operate, it would be very strange if they refused.

All sounds frightening I'm sure...

Just a few more questions though, how will revenue know where to send the letters to, what bank account/wage to target etc etc?

Will dead people get these letters from revenue also?

In what space of time do revenue reasonably think they'll track down the 700,00 yet to register, and then let's assume some folk that have now seen through the hhc scam and won't tow the Line any more, I'd say there could be tens of thousands in that category, who must be added to the list.

Will the council's eventually dictate to revenue how much they want collected on their behalf when they are allowed to raise the amount as they see fit?

If they will, isn't this a dangerous path? Where would that end? TV license, dog licence, motor tax etc etc, will revenue be chasing these taxes also?

Do you think the mass non compliance will have a negative effect on CPA 2? I mean, if revenue isn't there due to unpaid taxes, will some of our society have to take pay cuts/pension cuts and increment freezes?

I feel like I'm living in a communist state with every passing day in this country.

One section of society can only pay taxes to support the other section, and be party to that bloated and protected lifestyle for only so long before something blows.

Ghandee wrote: »

All sounds frightening.

Just a few more questions though, how will revenue know where to send the letters to, what bank account/wage to target etc etc?

Will dead people get these Peters from revenue also?

In what space of time do revenue reasonably think they'll track down the 700,00 yet to register, and then let's assume some folk that have now seen through the hhc scam and won't tow the Line any more, I'd say there could be tens of thousands in that category, who just be added to the list.

Will the council's eventually dictate to revenue how much they want collected on their behalf when they are allowed to raise the amount as that see fit?

If they will, isn't this a dangerous path? Where would that end? TV license, dog licence, motor tax etc etc, will revenue be chasing these taxes also?

Do you think the mass non compliance will have a negative effect on CPA 2? I mean, if revenue isn't there due to unpaid taxes, will some of our society have to take pay cuts/pension cuts and increment freezes?

I feel like I'm living in a communist state with every passing say in this country.

One section of society can only pay taxes to support the other section, and be party to that bloated and protected lifestyle for only too long before something blows.

it all does sound frightening Ghandee, but thats about the sum total of it. Sounds.

its just another in a long list of ever increasing threats from a bullying government who started in a weak postition and when you wade through the propaganda it been getting weaker by the day.

700k people stood up to them and they have fired their last shot without hitting one person.

so unless they throw in firing squads at dawn or something next...:rolleyes:

Down here around Newbridge, we have streets full of damn potholes. We were told that the HHC was for essential matters like these potholes.

BUT NOW.............along comes this - I just wonder how much of the HHC contributions were allocated to this:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/exministers-are-paid-nearly-2m-over-two-years-3343477.html

One thing I am certain ( but have no proof of course ), THIS FUND never ran out of money. Politicians are out to screw us public, and just line their own pockets. The SYSTEM must change, otherwise we'll all be bankrupt while politicians or ex politicians are living the life of reilly.

UTTER DISGRACE!

Slick50

cocobear wrote: »

Fair play for sticking to your principles, but I dont think there is any escaping this tax,

The more people hold out, the more likely it is this will be defeated

cocobear wrote: »

The consequences of not paying now are not too bad, but this will quickly get out of hand, in the next few years, when handed over to the local authorities. Then it will. Be a shock to a lot of the people who have not paid, what they actually owe, and will be an unmanageable debt to them., and source of emense pressure and worry., with I suspect the feeling of "f##k I should have paid this from the start"

Which is a very good reason to frustrate the implementation of this tax from the start.

cocobear wrote: »

We are upto date with it and that's a choice we made to avoid stress and worry in the future, because we have no savings ,to pay a large demand in the future, as I said in my original post each to their own!

So you're alright Jack.... for now. What happens if your finances deteriorate, or the tax is increased beyond your ability to pay? You will still owe it if it succeeds. I find it laughable, people telling me "we paid because it will become too expensive in the future".. this is a self fulfilling proficy, if you cave in you are contributing to the success of this unjust, unfair tax.

Happy Gilmore said... The presidency would be "one of realism but also of optimism. For us the glass is half-full and not half-empty".

He must be speaking for himself and Enda, my glass has steadily been getting less and less full.

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Down here around Newbridge, we have streets full of damn potholes. We were told that the HHC was for essential matters like these potholes.

BUT NOW.............along comes this - I just wonder how much of the HHC contributions were allocated to this:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/exministers-are-paid-nearly-2m-over-two-years-3343477.html

One thing I am certain ( but have no proof of course ), THIS FUND never ran out of money. Politicians are out to screw us public, and just line their own pockets. The SYSTEM must change, otherwise we'll all be bankrupt while politicians or ex politicians are living the life of reilly.

UTTER DISGRACE!

i know i give out about them but, on behalf of the hard pressed people in Ireland, id just like to pass on my thanks to those on the list(in bold) that returned some of the gravy! Three cheers!

Former Ministers' Severance pay 2011/12

Noel Ahern €5,227.10
Dermot Ahern €4,746.56
Barry Andrews €6,943.25
Aine Brady €4,746.56
Dara Calleary €33,775.71
Pat Carey €24,205.93
Donie Cassidy €24,205.93
Sean Connick €39,686.61
Mary Coughlan €24,205.93
Ciaran Cuffe €54,451.62
John Curran €25,417.82
Noel Dempsey €1,040.03
Jimmy Devins €27,473.22
Michael Finneran €1,039.91
Paul Gallagher €24,205.93
John Gormley €99,442.55
Mary Hanafin €51,492.69
Sean Haughey €40,939.40
Maire Hoctor €24,205.93
Billy Kelleher TD €1,040.03
Tony Killeen €24,205.93
Michael Kitt €37,473.67
Conor Lenihan €4,181.68
Brian Lenihan TD €24,205.93
Martin Mansergh €16,921.61
Micheal Martin €24,205.93*
John McGuinness €61,318.11
John Moloney €24,205.93
Pat Moylan €18,450.63
Eamon O CuIv €46,094.74*
Willie O'Dea TD €8,063.72
John O'Donoghue €14,374.32
Batt O'Keeffe €51,856.59
Willie Penrose €4,146.35
Peter Power €24,205.93
Sean Power €6,272.52
Dick Roche €46,034.09
Eamon Ryan €51,492.69
Trevor Sargent €19,454.03
Brendan Smith €46,094.74 *
Mary Wallace €8,363.36
Mary White €25,417.82
€1,105,533.03
2012
Barry Andrews €27,812.69
Aine Brady €18,289.92
Dara Calleary €19,932.40
Pat Carey €30,431.54
Sean Connick €4,082.15
Mary Coughlan €44,838.39
John Curran €22,622.77
Michael Finneran €17,699.95
Paul Gallagher €81,886.16
John Gormley €26,625.82
Sean Haughey €16,073.46
Billy Kelleher TD €19,932.40
Tony Killeen €25,289.24
Conor Lenihan €19,932.40
Martin Mansergh €19,932.40
Micheal Martin €66,230.84*
John Moloney €19,932.40
Pat Moylan €21,303.20
Batt O'Keeffe €29,541.72
Willie Penrose €24,093.67
Peter Power €19,932.40
Dick Roche €37,906.88
Eamon Ryan €35,116.92
Trevor Sargent €1,785.96
Roisin Shortall TD €6,522.48*
Brendan Smith €30,568.14*
Eamon O Cuiv €30,568.14*

I look at this list, the more nauseous I feel.

What is 'severence pay'? Willie O'Dea ( He is just one of many I am sure ) is still in DE last I heard. But what disgusts me the most is Gormley getting over €99G's & €26g respectfully..................FOR WHAT??? To spend a fortune on a proposed incinerator and do Your danmdest to make sure it won't be built in my 'backyard'?

Heavens above, these so called 'politicians' are traitors to every single person who elected them.:mad:

Slick50

dxhound2005 wrote: »

... And also for entities like the ESB for not handing over information when requested (€100 per day for each day for each case). And of course the Department ofSW will co-operate, it would be very strange if they refused.

Then entities like the ESB are going to find themselves caught between a rock and a hard place, re: data protection law. This states they cannot use the data for any purpose not stated at the time of acquiring it. I would say there is going to be a lot of legal challenges to this new legislation.

I find it curious that we should have bought only german manufactured vehicles for the presidency.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Are you giving a guarantee on this? If you are wrong can the people you led up the garden path come back to you for the money deducted from their wages or Social Welfare?

It's our tax that pays the elite, if anyone is down the garden path it's the elite;)

and you are ?

I think you're giving it away already.

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I look at this list, the more nauseous I feel.

What is 'severence pay'? Willie O'Dea ( He is just one of many I am sure ) is still in DE last I heard. But what disgusts me the most is Gormley getting over €99G's & €26g respectfully..................FOR WHAT??? To spend a fortune on a proposed incinerator and do Your danmdest to make sure it won't be built in my 'backyard'?

Heavens above, these so called 'politicians' are traitors to every single person who elected them.:mad:

Then stop voting for any of them.

cocobear wrote: »

Fair play for sticking to your principles, but I dont think there is any escaping this tax,
The consequences of not paying now are not too bad, but this will quickly get out of hand, in the next few years, when handed over to the local authorities. Then it will. Be a shock to a lot of the people who have not paid, what they actually owe, and will be an unmanageable debt to them., and source of emense pressure and worry., with I suspect the feeling of "f##k I should have paid this from the start"
We are upto date with it and that's a choice we made to avoid stress and worry in the future, because we have no savings ,to pay a large demand i
n the future, as I said in my original post each to their own!

hmmm. This post makes me suspicious. hmmmm.

I see you're blatantly ignoring my responses. What part of no do you not understand? if a taxman demands 10,000 euros, are you just gonna hand it to him as if there is no escaping NO?

Who are you again?

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Then stop voting for any of them.

And therein is the problem - WHO to vote for next?:rolleyes: