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Child Item

KPMG Drunk girl shutdown

Ares

Why has there been an outright shutdown on the KPMG drunk girl video on this site.

It is a very topical point of discussion in Ireland at the moment and yet the topic has been shut down completely.

This video has put class divisions to the forefront of Irish societies thinking and I believe that we, the users of the community, should be allowed to discuss it.

I think this is not a good move by boards and I hope that boards isn't being cowed by KPMG or other companies.

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SYDEWYNDER

Having read through this since it started last night my fears have been confirmed. The Mod team appears to consist primarily of liberal pussies.

The facts are:
The girl is not underage. I have the pleasure of knowing one of her friends in the video and have since asked.
The girl has said things that have offended many people.
''Ah sure she was drunk'' is not a valid excuse. That excuse would not get you off the hook in a court.
The girl has been a cnut. Backlash is to be expected.

Boards is seriously leaving a bad taste in my mouth as of late. Well done Mods. You excel at driving people off this forum with frightening skill.

KamiKazeKitten

yore wrote: »

Grand. but why deleted rather than just locked? Like so many other threads are?

That you'd have to ask a mod, I don't know.

The Iron Giant

minidazzler wrote: »

Grand, she damaged her reputation, but why do we have to discuss it here? In fact, what's the discuss? What can actually be said in a thread to make the video relevant? The only reason to want a thread on it is to ridicule the girl.

If she were to harm herself due to the negative attention and downright horrid ridicule, would you say "ah, sure it's her own fault". There are dozens of examples of young kids taking their lives because of Internet bullying. If boards were to allow it, when there is no reasonable discussion to be had, then I would lose a lot of respect for the company and community.

There is NOTHING to discuss, and free speech doesn't exist here. Double standards can be had when it's reasonable, and in this case it's quite reasonable.

Exactly, people are going on as if she's the President of Egypt or the Emperor of Japan, she's not a 'person of interest'. If it was Enda Kenny going on that way or some other politician in the public eye, then its fair game. But its not.

Nothing good can come from people destroying her over what she said. She or her family will see the video themselves and that will be enough, all a message board on how misguided her views are will push her over the edge.

If she can't cope with all the abuse coming her way and does something to herself, I doubt everyone will be saying that she had it coming.

Can people really not see the potential for boards getting an absolute pasting in the press if anything happens to that girl, were a giant thread criticizing her be allowed?

yore

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Can people really not see the potential for boards getting an absolute pasting in the press if anything happens to that girl, were a giant thread criticizing her be allowed?

I hate to keep harping on about it, but would the backlash not be similar to if something happened to one of the Cork girls? You know, the thread that reached near 500 posts before being locked and not deleted? And even then only being locked after being pointed out here

steddyeddy

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

That you'd have to ask a mod, I don't know.

There has been an attempt to the answers were illogical on some part.

Quazzie

It's as simple as this. There was no issues with the Cork thread because it got a bit boisterous at times but it was moderated correctly and ran its course. In this case though the moderators chose to censor and delete rather than moderate.

humanji

yore wrote: »

Grand. but why deleted rather than just locked? Like so many other threads are?

It's been explained to you several times already.

Lyaiera wrote: »

Then I think you're missing a very relevant point. Threads aren't being deleted because of an ethical stance Boards has taken, it's because of the actions people outside of Boards' control have taken.

The sharing of the video of the girls fighting (and the Characters of Cork Thread) is just as nasty as the video of this girl. Just because people are getting worked up about this video doesn't change the nature of the video itself. And that annoys people.

As has been said, what's being posted on the internet has come under a lot of scrutiny recently, and I have no doubt that's heightened people's sensibilities. However, as long as Boards continues to treat people being embarrassed in this new manner a good thing has come of it. And I think that's the correct thing to happen from this.

I've said it already and I'll say it again to be perfectly clear, we haven't been told by outside forces to delete these threads. We haven't been threatened legally. We haven't even been asked politely. These threads, after learning from p[previous mistakes and erring on the side of caution, were deleted while we waiting for an official stance. And that stance was that, yes we should probably err on the side of caution just to be safe. That's what's happened.

From the start, the threads were abusive, so there was no way any good could have come from them. The Cork girls thread, as an example, was an actual discussion. As I said above, I don't remember seeing that thread, but looking over a few posts now, I can't imagine I'd have let it remain. And there's been many more threads that shouldn't have been let run, but they did, they went downhill, and they were locked or deleted. Is it really so odd that we'd learn from mistakes and try and stop the same happening again? Must it really be a conspiracy to do with class and status?

handsomecake

jade goody and katy french got absolutely scorched on this site but this girl gets a free pass.

if she was 18 and sober would it be allowed?

minidazzler

SYDEWYNDER wrote: »

Having read through this since it started last night my fears have been confirmed. The Mod team appears to consist primarily of liberal pussies.

The facts are:
The girl is not underage. I have the pleasure of knowing one of her friends in the video and have since asked.
The girl has said things that have offended many people.
''Ah sure she was drunk'' is not a valid excuse. That excuse would not get you off the hook in a court.
The girl has been a cnut. Backlash is to be expected.

Boards is seriously leaving a bad taste in my mouth as of late. Well done Mods. You excel at driving people off this forum with frightening skill.

Regardless of age, when did she ever put herself so out there that she deserves our ridicule? Because that's all that can be done to that video. It has nothing that merits discussion.

The fighting Cork girls video could be discussed as to how it started given it was one girl making another fight a third. It was a strange one. This is just a girl having a rant and having 100000 people ridicule her.

Being a cnut when drunk does not deserve the internet tearing you apart, at least not what she said. It wasn't THAT BAD. You and I have both said worse.

Court? Do you really think the court of public opinion is a way to judge people, that it's ok to tear this girls life apart because of one video? You know NOTHING about her, except that one video of her makes her look like a bit of a dick. There is no need to discuss her.

If you have a bad taste in your mouth why not leave? There are hundreds of places online you can discuss this video, why MUST you discuss it here...though there is nothing to discuss.

g'em

SYDEWYNDER wrote: »

Having read through this since it started last night my fears have been confirmed. The Mod team appears to consist primarily of liberal pussies.

The facts are:
The girl is not underage. I have the pleasure of knowing one of her friends in the video and have since asked.
The girl has said things that have offended many people.
''Ah sure she was drunk'' is not a valid excuse. That excuse would not get you off the hook in a court.
The girl has been a cnut. Backlash is to be expected.

Boards is seriously leaving a bad taste in my mouth as of late. Well done Mods. You excel at driving people off this forum with frightening skill.

As I said, it never ceases to amaze me how vehemently people defend their right to be offensive on the internet. To all the people who say that this video could be discussed reasonably, ^^^ this is unfortunately the reality.

SYDEWYNDER

I find it odd that EVERY moderator who has commented on this shares the same opinion. Her auld fella works for KPMG, there lawyered up the wazzoo. Someone upstairs is telling the mods to crush this. I'm no detective but this looks to me like Daddy is covering this up, or KPMG is.

There is no way that every mod thinks the same on this. There is a directive being given out somewhere.

minidazzler

handsomecake wrote: »

jade goody and katy french got absolutely scorched on this site but this girl gets a free pass.

if she was 18 and sober would it be allowed?

They put themselves in the public eye consciously. She did not. Goody was far worse and in fact her career and infamy depended on her being discussed about her negative attributes.

K-9

yore wrote: »

I mention this fact already in the context that we were told that this one was taken down without legal threats, but those others needed to get their solicitors on the case to force it to be taken down.

Did anyone say anything libelous on the thread to force it to be deleted rather than just locked and have individual posts deleted?

Again, we got loads of reported posts about the original thread and the other ones. We react to users reporting posts, I don't recall many reported posts about the video of the Cork girls or the Late, Late one, not to this extent.

Or is the girl in question "one of us" to the boards hierarchy???

Well obviously at this stage some will think that, despite repeated clarifications so there isn't much point in me replying to that, it's bullshyte though.

steddyeddy

humanji wrote: »

It's been explained to you several times already.

I've said it already and I'll say it again to be perfectly clear, we haven't been told by outside forces to delete these threads. We haven't been threatened legally. We haven't even been asked politely. These threads, after learning from p[previous mistakes and erring on the side of caution, were deleted while we waiting for an official stance. And that stance was that, yes we should probably err on the side of caution just to be safe. That's what's happened.

From the start, the threads were abusive, so there was no way any good could have come from them. The Cork girls thread, as an example, was an actual discussion. As I said above, I don't remember seeing that thread, but looking over a few posts now, I can't imagine I'd have let it remain. And there's been many more threads that shouldn't have been let run, but they did, they went downhill, and they were locked or deleted. Is it really so odd that we'd learn from mistakes and try and stop the same happening again? Must it really be a conspiracy to do with class and status?

In hindsight should the cork girls video have been deleted? Is it too late to delete now. It would be a nce gesture on behalf of boards to show that there is no discrimatory motive behind the different actions.

minidazzler

SYDEWYNDER wrote: »

I find it odd that EVERY moderator who has commented on this shares the same opinion. Her auld fella works for KPMG, there lawyered up the wazzoo. Someone upstairs is telling the mods to crush this. I'm no detective but this looks to me like Daddy is covering this up, or KPMG is.

There is no way that every mod thinks the same on this. There is a directive being given out somewhere.

Or maybe it's that they understand boards better than someone whose arse is still red? And understand that there is an anti-bullying policy.

You've given no reasons why it SHOULD be discussed, just ones of why it's shouldn't not be discussed, which is not the same thing. What is there in the video to discuss?

sfwcork

steddyeddy wrote: »

It was right to shut it down. She's only a young girl and regardless of her attitude whatever people's opinions might be, she doesn't deserve to be tore apart. Famous people often talk about how hard they find being famous so I can only imagine how a stream of negative videos can affect a young person's mind. We can not on the one hand complain about cyber bullying and then on the other complain about a lack of opportunity to do it.

What is a problem is the relative speed at this was dealt with by boards. This was dealt with like no other issue. There have been issues here for example of the woman who froze to death in north Dublin. On that thread there was ten plus pages on people's theories regarding the "real" cause of her death and allegations of drug use. The legal implications for that where far greater than this issue. A friend of her's joined boards to ask for the thread to be closed then which it did and a flimsy apology was given.

Then there are videos of kids from Cork fighting that were left up despite featuring two young girls. There have been other threads on "dole scum". Yet this case is different because of one reason (not her age since the cork girls where younger) and that was her socio economic status.

The cmods got involved in this and deleted whole threads. This didn't happen with the girl who froze to death or the young Cork girls. This is discrimnation of one group over another and I would insult my sense of standards to call it anything else. I personally feel offended that some people on this site are treated better than others. Now I think this site is well run and the mods for the most part are nice people who are giving up their time to volunteer but there needs to be an apology over how other cases where handled in relation to this. It's discrimnation in all it's ugliness.

Only time will tell if we see the site treat other cases of people from differentbackgrounds like this because if it doesn't. I predict a turning point in this site.

Great post.

fasttalkerchat

minidazzler wrote: »

Grand, she damaged her reputation, but why do we have to discuss it here? In fact, what's the discuss? What can actually be said in a thread to make the video relevant? The only reason to want a thread on it is to ridicule the girl.

If she were to harm herself due to the negative attention and downright horrid ridicule, would you say "ah, sure it's her own fault". There are dozens of examples of young kids taking their lives because of Internet bullying. If boards were to allow it, when there is no reasonable discussion to be had, then I would lose a lot of respect for the company and community.

There is NOTHING to discuss, and free speech doesn't exist here. Double standards can be had when it's reasonable, and in this case it's quite reasonable.

It was a funny video. There is no big discussion on class divide but still something that gets talked about on forums. No need to censor it.

Its like blaming those Australian radio hosts for that nurse who committed suicide, that was a funny prank, went really well, no one was to blame for what happened next.

Lyaiera

humanji wrote: »

I've said it already and I'll say it again to be perfectly clear, we haven't been told by outside forces to delete these threads. We haven't been threatened legally. We haven't even been asked politely. These threads, after learning from p[previous mistakes and erring on the side of caution, were deleted while we waiting for an official stance. And that stance was that, yes we should probably err on the side of caution just to be safe. That's what's happened.

From the start, the threads were abusive, so there was no way any good could have come from them. The Cork girls thread, as an example, was an actual discussion. As I said above, I don't remember seeing that thread, but looking over a few posts now, I can't imagine I'd have let it remain. And there's been many more threads that shouldn't have been let run, but they did, they went downhill, and they were locked or deleted. Is it really so odd that we'd learn from mistakes and try and stop the same happening again? Must it really be a conspiracy to do with class and status?

That's not what I was trying to get across at all. I mean that the posts all around the internet are not under Boards control. The reaction to this has been far larger than the reaction to the other threads. Whether that be because of class war issues or because there's more sensitivity to what's written online now is irrelevant. As long as people learn from this and take a firm stance on what is and isn't appropriate, ethically for this community, then I think some good will come from this.

fasttalkerchat

And about treating people from different people from different backgrounds differently what about "Leave it ou'" or "Mick Collins rides hippos" or the "Cat-bin woman" in England.

handsomecake

minidazzler wrote: »

They put themselves in the public eye consciously. She did not. Goody was far worse and in fact her career and infamy depended on her being discussed about her negative attributes.

and katy french?

gerry ryan?

any winehouse?

who is and isnt allowed get lashed on the internet.

and for all this talk of cyber bullying what of the "real life bullying" that she conveyed in the video.

i just dont like the idea of "ok you can slate this group" but "no you cant have a pop at that group".

if people call her names or viciously insult her or issue death threats then yeah its bang out of order.but why the full frontal firewall in her defence.

its like burglars complaing when they get shot trying to rob your house.

she wants to be treated with respect yet she talked to those people like they were **** on her shoe( in before she wasnt wearing shoes)

and she knew damn well she was being flmed.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

minidazzler

steddyeddy wrote: »

Then there are videos of kids from Cork fighting that were left up despite featuring two young girls. There have been other threads on "dole scum". Yet this case is different because of one reason (not her age since the cork girls where younger) and that was her socio economic status.

The cmods got involved in this and deleted whole threads. This didn't happen with the girl who froze to death or the young Cork girls. This is discrimnation of one group over another and I would insult my sense of standards to call it anything else. I personally feel offended that some people on this site are treated better than others. Now I think this site is well run and the mods for the most part are nice people who are giving up their time to volunteer but there needs to be an apology over how other cases where handled in relation to this. It's discrimnation in all it's ugliness.

Only time will tell if we see the site treat other cases of people from different backgrounds like this because if it doesn't. I predict a turning point in this site.

There are several key differences.

There are merits and actual topics to discuss on the Cork Girls video. How the fight started (an outside girl pushing the two girls together to start), that it wasn't just the two fighting involved, our own experiences with fighting in school.

There are no merits or real topics to discuss with regard to the KPMG video.

Identifying people involved would be difficult if not impossible for the most part for the Cork girls video, not so for the KPMG.

The Cork girls weren't just getting ridiculed, there was comedy too in there. Not so with the KPMG video, all the comedy is ridicule.

humanji

yore wrote: »

No not a conspiracy. Just wondering why you are using a logical fallacy in your reasoning

This thread was deleted for mysterious reason whereas the other threads were not because "nothing has come of them". Why mkae the distinction justifying not deleting the other ones as "nothing has come of them" if that same reason applies to this one?.

Surely if the reason they weren't deleted was that "nothing has come from them" and that similarly, "nothing has come" from this one, it means that this one should also have not been deleted?

And again, you're not reading what's already been told to you. The Cork girls thread, in my opinion, shouldn't have been allowed. This is my personal opinion. Many others, including national news papers, felt it was worth discussing. But it ran it's course and died out. It fell from memory.

Then it was dragged up again to prove something in this thread. In the intervening period, nothing came of the video. I locked it. There was no need to delete it, since nothing had come from it (and again, that phrase means litereally what it means).

I was online when the first threads of the KPMG girl started, and I deleted one because I felt it was inappropriate. Other AH mods felt the same and we also noted that if the girls dad really was something to do with KPMG, then there might be legal problems. So, we decided that it'd be best to delete all the threads as they popped up, and then when we got an official site stance on it, then we can moderate in accordance to it. And that stance was "better safe than sorry".

Sadly, that's all there is to it. There's no conspiracy, no lawsuits, no brown envelopes, just an apparently crap video that is no better or worse than the hundreds of crap videos we delete in AH every week.

Oh, that may be an important point: we delete hundreds of threads every week. This one is only special because it got it's own feedback thread.

SYDEWYNDER

minidazzler wrote: »

Regardless of age, when did she ever put herself so out there that she deserves our ridicule? Because that's all that can be done to that video. It has nothing that merits discussion.

The fighting Cork girls video could be discussed as to how it started given it was one girl making another fight a third. It was a strange one. This is just a girl having a rant and having 100000 people ridicule her.

Being a cnut when drunk does not deserve the internet tearing you apart, at least not what she said. It wasn't THAT BAD. You and I have both said worse.

Court? Do you really think the court of public opinion is a way to judge people, that it's ok to tear this girls life apart because of one video? You know NOTHING about her, except that one video of her makes her look like a bit of a dick. There is no need to discuss her.

If you have a bad taste in your mouth why not leave? There are hundreds of places online you can discuss this video, why MUST you discuss it here...though there is nothing to discuss.

Unfortunately the court of public opinion seems to dole out fairer justice then a court of law in this country.

Why this is worthy of discussion is because most people (myself included) fall into the category of poor people. This girl is ranting about being loaded and ridiculing all others for being not well off. I know I myself would be extremely priveleged to have the resources available that she has.

People are angry because the girl is an idiot and should not be essentially deriding the lower middle classes just because she is lucky enough to come from a wealthy background. Its her lack of humility about her wealth that angers me, and many others.

The mods put a bad taste in my mouth but I stay for people like yourself dazzler. I love ya. And you can feel it.

Reasons it should be discussed? Its a viral video that has pissed off a lot of people. Thats reason enough for me. I'm not going to discuss semantics with you. We will be here all night if thats the case.

gallag

There is no way that girl is sixteen. Where did that info come from?

minidazzler

handsomecake wrote: »

and katy french?

gerry ryan?

any winehouse?

who is and isnt allowed get lashed on the internet.

and she knew damn well she was being flmed.

All these people knew that anything they said or did would be discussed by people, they specifically were in the lime light.

Whether she is being filmed or not is not the issue, she had no reason to believe this would blow up. A famous person does.

As regards her bullying people, she may have been discriminatory against a group, but was she specifically bullying anyone? When it's a mass of people against one it's bullying, when it's one against a load it's just being a dick.

John_Rambo

ANXIOUS wrote: »

That wasn't the first time she's done something like that.

So, do you know her, and is that why you posted up a photo of her with her name?

yore

humanji wrote: »

It's been explained to you several times already.

Not really. Your explanation as to the question as to why this one was deleted and the other one wasn't was simply that "nothing has come" of the Cork one. That is the reason why that one wasn't deleted. You never explained why this one was deleted and further muddied the waters by telling us that nothing has come from this one also.

humanji wrote: »

I've said it already and I'll say it again to be perfectly clear, we haven't been told by outside forces to delete these threads. We haven't been threatened legally. We haven't even been asked politely. These threads, after learning from p[previous mistakes and erring on the side of caution, were deleted while we waiting for an official stance. And that stance was that, yes we should probably err on the side of caution just to be safe. That's what's happened.

humanji wrote: »

Nothing has come from the cork thread, so there's no need to delete it. If you desperately want me to, then I'll do it. It won't make a difference now, as it's a dead issue.

clairefontaine

steddyeddy wrote: »

It was right to shut it down. She's only a young girl and regardless of her attitude whatever people's opinions might be, she doesn't deserve to be tore apart. Famous people often talk about how hard they find being famous so I can only imagine how a stream of negative videos can affect a young person's mind. We can not on the one hand complain about cyber bullying and then on the other complain about a lack of opportunity to do it.

What is a problem is the relative speed at this was dealt with by boards. This was dealt with like no other issue. There have been issues here for example of the woman who froze to death in north Dublin. On that thread there was ten plus pages on people's theories regarding the "real" cause of her death and allegations of drug use. The legal implications for that where far greater than this issue. A friend of her's joined boards to ask for the thread to be closed then which it did and a flimsy apology was given.

Then there are videos of kids from Cork fighting that were left up despite featuring two young girls. There have been other threads on "dole scum". Yet this case is different because of one reason (not her age since the cork girls where younger) and that was her socio economic status.

The cmods got involved in this and deleted whole threads. This didn't happen with the girl who froze to death or the young Cork girls. This is discrimnation of one group over another and I would insult my sense of standards to call it anything else. I personally feel offended that some people on this site are treated better than others. Now I think this site is well run and the mods for the most part are nice people who are giving up their time to volunteer but there needs to be an apology over how other cases where handled in relation to this. It's discrimnation in all it's ugliness.

Only time will tell if we see the site treat other cases of people from differentbackgrounds like this because if it doesn't. I predict a turning point in this site.

This particular video has captured the national imagination and it would be interesting to have a mature conversation about it. Having one really depends on how much you trust your community not to laugh at other people's cruelties. It is genuinely shocking to me how many normally reasonable people are quick to condemn her and have nothing to say about the makers and distributers of this video, rather than looking at larger issues that this video speaks to and of.

I'm not familiar with the video of the two girls from Cork fighting. But I'm guessing that no one in that video offended people with class issues that then inspired an onslaught of public ridicule and abuse. Should boards have closed it sooner than now? Probably. This whole episode will force them to reconsider how much cruelty they allow to move towards private citizens. Undoubtabtly boards is on a learning curve too.

Community has a lovely ring to it. It speaks of comfort and support. On the other hand there are leanings towards group think and there are dangers in community. Anyone read Shirley Jackson's short story "The Lottery"? Have a read, it's chilling and contains a valuable lesson/warning. Can boards trust its community to have a mature conversation? Maybe in a while when things have cooled off and perspective is gained, but right now they made the right call.

I was lucky in that my adolescence was spent during a time where not every embarrassing thing you did and said was documented. I don't know how people must feel now when they are coming of age and have every spot of acne and drunken rant put on film.

You are right, it does highlight inconsistencies in policy in terms of what boards allows and what it doesn't. But sometimes it takes something large scale to point out the more mediocre examples of what is tolerated and what is not tolerated. There are valuable and worthwhile discussions to be had, but for that to happen, a certain climate has to be in place.

SYDEWYNDER

humanji wrote: »

I was online when the first threads of the KPMG girl started, and I deleted one because I felt it was inappropriate. Other AH mods felt the same and we also noted that if the girls dad really was something to do with KPMG, then there might be legal problems. So, we decided that it'd be best to delete all the threads as they popped up, and then when we got an official site stance on it, then we can moderate in accordance to it. And that stance was "better safe than sorry".

So its fear then. Jesus Christ lads grow a backbone will you?