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Question about the The Krays

Jumboman

Can anyone tell me why the The Krays are so popular in London ?

I just dont understand how people can look up to these Scumbags.

The way people talk about them you would swear they ran some sort of Charity :rolleyes:

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Stained Class

They were the same as the Creamers are here now.

No regard for the law, paying tax or whatever.

Made life a misery for honest businessmen thru extortion.

No prob. They loved their Mum, & gave money to sad cases who in turn would worship them.

Pure Scum.

The King of Moo

I imagine they'll always be beloved by lots of people thanks to their timeless hits like "True" and "Gold."

orestes

padd b1975 wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/mar/25/ameliahill.theobserver

Ronnie stated in his own biography that he wasn't gay, he was bi. The stuff in the article about Reggie being bi just seems like Ronnie winding up his brother to me."Ah don't worry, sure Ronnie likes guys too" or "Ah would you look at that lovely lad over there Reg, I'd love a piece of that, how about yourself?". Tongue in cheek humour amongst brothers doesn't exactly make Reggie bisexual.

Chuck Stone

Senna wrote: »

People are judged by all their actions, not just if they were nice to speak to. Both your neighbours were scumbags that probably ruined dozens, if not hundreds, of lifes.

In the real world the vast majority of people ruin their own lives and in gangland the vast majority of killing is intra-gangland. If the people Pottler's talking about made their living from drugs and prostitution then they are effectively providing a service, albeit illegally, to people who seek it.

The problem with providing drugs to people who want drugs and sex to people who want sex is some groups have arbitrarily decided it's 'wrong' (or bad for business) and have thus prohibited their supply.

When drugs and sex become prohibited 'commodities' they're left to the black economy (free market). How does one settle a dispute when deals go wrong in the black economy? You just can't use the traditional channels of law and justice to settle disputes so unfortunately it's beating and ultimately killings. I guess the threat of violence is the only way of keeping order.

padd b1975

orestes wrote: »

Ronnie wasn't gay, he was bisexual, he was in a serious relationship with a woman for about 3 years before he was imprisoned. Even if Ronnie did have sex with guys who were under the age of consent that actually wouldn't make him a pedophile, pedophile means pre-pubescent. Shagging teenage guys is not the same thing as shagging boys.

I've never heard or read anywhere about Reggie being suspected of being gay, if true it's pretty interesting. Where did you read that?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/mar/25/ameliahill.theobserver

Jumboman

Another thing Ive noticed about the krays is that about half of london claims to be related to them.

orestes

Seedy Arling wrote: »

He was a massive philanthropist alright. He donated shed loads of cocaine to America. :pac:

Considering the amount of his coke that they seized he kinda did :pac:

UglyBolloxFace

Biggins wrote: »

Part fear/part notoriety.

Just look at O.J. Simpson and others of even smaller questionable nature.
Some people love to mix in that company. It massages their ego sometimes.

Did you really just compare the Kray twins to OJ Simpson?

Seedy Arling

orestes wrote: »

Pablo Escobar - one of the biggest criminals in history, a billionaire, a massive philanthropist, and even at one point a politician. He built hospitals, churches and loads of sports stadiums/facilities. The people of Colombia loved him.

He was a massive philanthropist alright. He donated shed loads of cocaine to America. :pac:

orestes

dd972 wrote: »

anyone fancy forming a boxing club for some local kudos

the criminals / gangster fraternity have utter contempt for the average joe soap

Pablo Escobar - one of the biggest criminals in history, a billionaire, a massive philanthropist, and even at one point a politician. He built hospitals, churches and loads of sports stadiums/facilities. The people of Colombia loved him.

dd972

anyone fancy forming a boxing club for some local kudos

the criminals / gangster fraternity have utter contempt for the average joe soap

orestes

padd b1975 wrote: »

Ronnie Kray was a raging homosexual, it was an open secret that he used rent boys on a regular basis, it was generally accepted that some of these boys were under age which would make Ronnie a paedophile.

Reggie was also suspected of being gay.

Ronnie wasn't gay, he was bisexual, he was in a serious relationship with a woman for about 3 years before he was imprisoned. Even if Ronnie did have sex with guys who were under the age of consent that actually wouldn't make him a pedophile, pedophile means pre-pubescent. Shagging teenage guys is not the same thing as shagging boys.

I've never heard or read anywhere about Reggie being suspected of being gay, if true it's pretty interesting. Where did you read that?

batistuta9

Jumboman wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why the The Krays are so popular in London ?

I just dont understand how people can look up to these Scumbags.

The way people talk about them you would swear they ran some sort of Charity :rolleyes:

Maybe they did, maybe they helped out their community when no one else would & made their area a safer place

Similar to what Pablo Escobar did, though i don't think the Kray's done as much good for the people as Escobar. He's built schools, hospital, homes, etc. he even re-homed people who were living in a dump after their neighbourhood was destroyed - the government didn't help them

padd b1975

orestes wrote: »

Ronnie was bisexual, not a pedophile.

Ronnie Kray was a raging homosexual, it was an open secret that he used rent boys on a regular basis, it was generally accepted that some of these boys were under age which would make Ronnie a paedophile.

Reggie was also suspected of being gay.

Ah shur Gawd bless em! They lav their dear old Mum, no need to lock your door at night (nothing worth robbing) etc etc

They were a pair of violent thugs who never did an honest days work in their life.

End of.

Pottler

padd b1975 wrote: »

Only if you messed with the kids Ronnie messed with.

I'd have little time for the Krays, and to be honest they were tiddly little fish in a big pond, other men would not have even known what the hell all the fuss was about.

I knew of one man in London, I often ate in his home and was friends with his sons, he owned strings of businesses and never raised his voice, let alone his fists, but he would have laughed his head off if you suggested the Krays were big timers or if you suggested he go out on the town in a flash suit. His idea of a wild time was weeding his lettuce plants in the back garden.

He looked/s like a gardener, drove a modest car and was/is absolutely loved by the whole area. If you pis5sed him off, a nice man in a suit would later politely ask you not to, and seeing as that man is about 6'10" of pure muscle and bone, unless you were very dumb you'd get the story.

dd972

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

John Bindon was another London gangster who was highly regarded, he ingratiated himself into the aristocracy, he even got invited to holiday with Princess Anne's party in Mustique, he claimed to have had sex with her on the trip.

He also had a brief spell working for Led Zeppelin's security until he pulled a gun on a roadie one night. In 1979 he walked for a murder in a highly controversial trial where some argued his celebrity status influenced the jury's decision.

Saw an interesting documentary on him, apparently some well spoken men in suits had a quiet word with him that it was not in his best interests to continue his fraternization with the House of Windsor otherwise a mysterious car crash or drug related death would ensue, there's always a bigger firm in the food chain.

Senna

Pottler wrote: »

Not Ronnie, he had issues tbf, I've often heard it said, not that I'd have a first hand genuine clue really. I'd have waay more time for the Richardsons tbh, they were really just very very tough businessmen as opposed to outright gangsters as they are always portrayed.

So the person giving the orders is a better class of person that the person who is carrying out the orders? They're are both as bad as each other.

orestes

Pottler wrote: »

Not Ronnie, he had issues tbf, I've often heard it said, not that I'd have a first hand genuine clue really.

Ronnie was a paranoid schizophrenic and unbelievably violent, no doubt about it (he was certified insane and died in Broadmoor) but that kind of thing can't really lead to a violation of a code of your own personal code of ethics afaik. Makes your perception of others actions irrational and your reactions to them disproportionate, like a guy accidentally bumps your elbow in the pub, you think he's disrespecting you on purpose so you stab him in the throat with a broken beer bottle. The Krays dealt harshly with people who harmed women and children, so any child molesters near Ronnie would be more likely to get butchered than get a handshake.

Seedy Arling wrote: »

Can't really see any articles. Just see a lot of blog stuff. Could be the tin foil hat brigade at it.

Meh, most likely baseless speculation so.

padd b1975 wrote: »

Only if you messed with the kids Ronnie messed with.

Ronnie was bisexual, not a pedophile.

DEFTLEFTHAND

John Bindon was another London gangster who was highly regarded, he ingratiated himself into the aristocracy, he even got invited to holiday with Princess Anne's party in Mustique, he claimed to have had sex with her on the trip.

He also had a brief spell working for Led Zeppelin's security until he pulled a gun on a roadie one night. In 1979 he walked for a murder in a highly controversial trial where some argued his celebrity status influenced the jury's decision.

padd b1975

orestes wrote: »

If you messed with women or children they would destroy you.

Only if you messed with the kids Ronnie messed with.

Sertus

Jumboman wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why the The Krays are so popular in London ?

I just dont understand how people can look up to these Scumbags.

The way people talk about them you would swear they ran some sort of Charity :rolleyes:

Why did most Irish people look up to, and fawn over, CJ, Bertie and their pals, even though they knew they were rotten to the core ?

Seedy Arling

Pottler wrote: »

I'm not Seedy, usually I'd debate or mock anything. This is just somthing I'd have a view of my own on and wouldn't really care what anyone else thought of that, it would not change my view one bit, tbh.

Ah fair enough, but if there's one place you're going to get a debate or a row in, its in this kip.

Pottler

Seedy Arling wrote: »

You're sort of missing the point of discussion forums there then horse.

I'm not Seedy, usually I'd debate or mock anything. This is just somthing I'd have a view of my own on and wouldn't really care what anyone else thought of that, it would not change my view one bit, tbh. IRL I'd be a very open person, I've discussed this face to face with plenty of people and make no bones about what was what.

Seedy Arling

orestes wrote: »

Anything is possible, if it were true as it would cast the way people view them in a very different light. Can you post any links to articles?

Can't really see any articles. Just see a lot of blog stuff. Could be the tin foil hat brigade at it.

Pottler

orestes wrote: »

Not a chance in hell, they would have been more likely to kill child molesters than help them.

Not Ronnie, he had issues tbf, I've often heard it said, not that I'd have a first hand genuine clue really. I'd have waay more time for the Richardsons tbh, they were really just very very tough businessmen as opposed to outright gangsters as they are always portrayed.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I've noticed the same deference is shown to these new breed of Dublin criminals. The outpouring of grief from many when Alan Ryan was shot interested me, you'd people ringing in to talk shows saying what a great chap he was. I'm sure he didn't seem like such a nice guy to the people he extorted. I didn't know him but I do know that he got himself into that life and he paid the ultimate price for his choice, that's the gangster game if you want to roll the dice, don't whinge when it goes against you.

Seedy Arling

Pottler wrote: »

Probably true, to you. They were not scumbags to me, they were businessmen who happened to be in illegal businesses. I'm not going to defend them, I'm just giving my honest view. I'm also not getting into keyboard warriorship, but I never heard anyone call them a scumbag, ever, I suppose you just grow up with different views of people. I was just giving my perspective anyway, not looking for a row or a debate really.

You're sort of missing the point of discussion forums there then horse.

orestes

Seedy Arling wrote: »

I just googled it. There seems to be a lot of speculation out there about it.

Anything is possible, if it were true as it would cast the way people view them in a very different light. Can you post any links to articles?

Pottler

Senna wrote: »

People are judged by all their actions, not just if they were nice to speak to. Both your neighbours were scumbags that probably ruined dozens, if not hundreds, of lifes.

Probably true, to you. They were not scumbags to me, they were businessmen who happened to be in illegal businesses. I'm not going to defend them, I'm just giving my honest view. I'm also not getting into keyboard warriorship, but I never heard anyone call them a scumbag, ever, I suppose you just grow up with different views of people. I was just giving my perspective anyway, not looking for a row or a debate really.

Seedy Arling

orestes wrote: »

Not a chance in hell, they would have been more likely to kill child molesters than help them.

I just googled it. There seems to be a lot of speculation out there about it.