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Question about the The Krays

Jumboman

Can anyone tell me why the The Krays are so popular in London ?

I just dont understand how people can look up to these Scumbags.

The way people talk about them you would swear they ran some sort of Charity :rolleyes:

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dd972

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

John Bindon was another London gangster who was highly regarded, he ingratiated himself into the aristocracy, he even got invited to holiday with Princess Anne's party in Mustique, he claimed to have had sex with her on the trip.

He also had a brief spell working for Led Zeppelin's security until he pulled a gun on a roadie one night. In 1979 he walked for a murder in a highly controversial trial where some argued his celebrity status influenced the jury's decision.

Saw an interesting documentary on him, apparently some well spoken men in suits had a quiet word with him that it was not in his best interests to continue his fraternization with the House of Windsor otherwise a mysterious car crash or drug related death would ensue, there's always a bigger firm in the food chain.

Pottler

padd b1975 wrote: »

Only if you messed with the kids Ronnie messed with.

I'd have little time for the Krays, and to be honest they were tiddly little fish in a big pond, other men would not have even known what the hell all the fuss was about.

I knew of one man in London, I often ate in his home and was friends with his sons, he owned strings of businesses and never raised his voice, let alone his fists, but he would have laughed his head off if you suggested the Krays were big timers or if you suggested he go out on the town in a flash suit. His idea of a wild time was weeding his lettuce plants in the back garden.

He looked/s like a gardener, drove a modest car and was/is absolutely loved by the whole area. If you pis5sed him off, a nice man in a suit would later politely ask you not to, and seeing as that man is about 6'10" of pure muscle and bone, unless you were very dumb you'd get the story.

padd b1975

orestes wrote: »

Ronnie was bisexual, not a pedophile.

Ronnie Kray was a raging homosexual, it was an open secret that he used rent boys on a regular basis, it was generally accepted that some of these boys were under age which would make Ronnie a paedophile.

Reggie was also suspected of being gay.

Ah shur Gawd bless em! They lav their dear old Mum, no need to lock your door at night (nothing worth robbing) etc etc

They were a pair of violent thugs who never did an honest days work in their life.

End of.

batistuta9

Jumboman wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why the The Krays are so popular in London ?

I just dont understand how people can look up to these Scumbags.

The way people talk about them you would swear they ran some sort of Charity :rolleyes:

Maybe they did, maybe they helped out their community when no one else would & made their area a safer place

Similar to what Pablo Escobar did, though i don't think the Kray's done as much good for the people as Escobar. He's built schools, hospital, homes, etc. he even re-homed people who were living in a dump after their neighbourhood was destroyed - the government didn't help them

orestes

padd b1975 wrote: »

Ronnie Kray was a raging homosexual, it was an open secret that he used rent boys on a regular basis, it was generally accepted that some of these boys were under age which would make Ronnie a paedophile.

Reggie was also suspected of being gay.

Ronnie wasn't gay, he was bisexual, he was in a serious relationship with a woman for about 3 years before he was imprisoned. Even if Ronnie did have sex with guys who were under the age of consent that actually wouldn't make him a pedophile, pedophile means pre-pubescent. Shagging teenage guys is not the same thing as shagging boys.

I've never heard or read anywhere about Reggie being suspected of being gay, if true it's pretty interesting. Where did you read that?

dd972

anyone fancy forming a boxing club for some local kudos

the criminals / gangster fraternity have utter contempt for the average joe soap

orestes

dd972 wrote: »

anyone fancy forming a boxing club for some local kudos

the criminals / gangster fraternity have utter contempt for the average joe soap

Pablo Escobar - one of the biggest criminals in history, a billionaire, a massive philanthropist, and even at one point a politician. He built hospitals, churches and loads of sports stadiums/facilities. The people of Colombia loved him.

Seedy Arling

orestes wrote: »

Pablo Escobar - one of the biggest criminals in history, a billionaire, a massive philanthropist, and even at one point a politician. He built hospitals, churches and loads of sports stadiums/facilities. The people of Colombia loved him.

He was a massive philanthropist alright. He donated shed loads of cocaine to America. :pac:

UglyBolloxFace

Biggins wrote: »

Part fear/part notoriety.

Just look at O.J. Simpson and others of even smaller questionable nature.
Some people love to mix in that company. It massages their ego sometimes.

Did you really just compare the Kray twins to OJ Simpson?

orestes

Seedy Arling wrote: »

He was a massive philanthropist alright. He donated shed loads of cocaine to America. :pac:

Considering the amount of his coke that they seized he kinda did :pac:

Jumboman

Another thing Ive noticed about the krays is that about half of london claims to be related to them.

padd b1975

orestes wrote: »

Ronnie wasn't gay, he was bisexual, he was in a serious relationship with a woman for about 3 years before he was imprisoned. Even if Ronnie did have sex with guys who were under the age of consent that actually wouldn't make him a pedophile, pedophile means pre-pubescent. Shagging teenage guys is not the same thing as shagging boys.

I've never heard or read anywhere about Reggie being suspected of being gay, if true it's pretty interesting. Where did you read that?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/mar/25/ameliahill.theobserver

Chuck Stone

Senna wrote: »

People are judged by all their actions, not just if they were nice to speak to. Both your neighbours were scumbags that probably ruined dozens, if not hundreds, of lifes.

In the real world the vast majority of people ruin their own lives and in gangland the vast majority of killing is intra-gangland. If the people Pottler's talking about made their living from drugs and prostitution then they are effectively providing a service, albeit illegally, to people who seek it.

The problem with providing drugs to people who want drugs and sex to people who want sex is some groups have arbitrarily decided it's 'wrong' (or bad for business) and have thus prohibited their supply.

When drugs and sex become prohibited 'commodities' they're left to the black economy (free market). How does one settle a dispute when deals go wrong in the black economy? You just can't use the traditional channels of law and justice to settle disputes so unfortunately it's beating and ultimately killings. I guess the threat of violence is the only way of keeping order.

orestes

padd b1975 wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/mar/25/ameliahill.theobserver

Ronnie stated in his own biography that he wasn't gay, he was bi. The stuff in the article about Reggie being bi just seems like Ronnie winding up his brother to me."Ah don't worry, sure Ronnie likes guys too" or "Ah would you look at that lovely lad over there Reg, I'd love a piece of that, how about yourself?". Tongue in cheek humour amongst brothers doesn't exactly make Reggie bisexual.

The King of Moo

I imagine they'll always be beloved by lots of people thanks to their timeless hits like "True" and "Gold."

Stained Class

They were the same as the Creamers are here now.

No regard for the law, paying tax or whatever.

Made life a misery for honest businessmen thru extortion.

No prob. They loved their Mum, & gave money to sad cases who in turn would worship them.

Pure Scum.

Motivator

The Krays weren't a patch on the Driscoll brothers, they ran Peckham for years.

BillyMitchel

Sir Alex Ferguson wrote: »

They were glamorised by the media like every other famous gangster ha been.

People who look up to the likes of the Kray's, Al Capone, Mafia etc are a bit slow.

Anyway they have nothing on the Mitchell brothers.

And their cousin Billy!

Zebra3

Winty wrote: »

Why do some Irish worship McGuinness and Adams?

the catholic church and stand by it despite it being full of child rapists and their protectors?

Higher

orestes wrote: »

Pablo Escobar - one of the biggest criminals in history, a billionaire, a massive philanthropist, and even at one point a politician. He built hospitals, churches and loads of sports stadiums/facilities. The people of Colombia loved him.

Wrong. The poor people of Medellin loved him. Most in Colombia did not. Ask the people in Cali, Colombia what they think of Escobar..

Doc Ruby

batistuta9 wrote: »

Maybe they did, maybe they helped out their community when no one else would & made their area a safer place

The community wouldn't need help if it wasn't for the likes of these scum. In fact, the community often enables these types by sticking to some sort of omerta code of silence, where being called a "rat" meant a permanent boycott. Talk about lemmings leaping off a cliff while playing right into the hands of criminals, I mean what do they think they're paying taxes for.

Its true that the media plays a big part as well. Watching movies like The Godfather you see these epic struggles against drug dealers and deep philosophies and whatnot, a complete whitewash.

The reality is that the mafia was all but wiped out after prohibition ended so they kept the ball rolling by introducing heroin first to prostitutes to keep them under control, and then to poor communities, laying the groundwork for all the ghetto misery we see today throughout the US.

MaxSteele

Doc Ruby wrote: »

They kept the ball rolling by introducing heroin first to prostitutes to keep them under control, and then to poor communities, laying the groundwork for all the ghetto misery we see today throughout the US.

It'll be like Boyz in the Hood Father. The pimps will have the whooers on crack to keep them in line.

corktina

they nailed my head to a coffee table once, they didn't WANT to, I had to MAKE them do it

Oh no wait, that was Doug and Dinsdale...

Jumboman

kraggy

Biggins wrote: »

Part fear/part notoriety.

Just look at O.J. Simpson and others of even smaller questionable nature.
Some people love to mix in that company. It massages their ego sometimes.

Who in their right mind looks up to OJ Simpson?

I don't know anyone who does.

Pottler

kraggy wrote: »

Who in their right mind looks up to OJ Simpson?

I don't know anyone who does.

Danny DeVito looks up to him all the time.

the purple tin

It's a funny thing when the myth that builds up around somebody overtakes the reality.

batistuta9

Doc Ruby wrote: »

The community wouldn't need help if it wasn't for the likes of these scum. In fact, the community often enables these types by sticking to some sort of omerta code of silence, where being called a "rat" meant a permanent boycott. Talk about lemmings leaping off a cliff while playing right into the hands of criminals, I mean what do they think they're paying taxes for.

That's not true at all, it's bullshít frankly.

Are you suggesting if it wasn't for powerful criminal figures there'd be no crime and people would live in some sort of utopian paradise?

What about the petty crime or other types of crime which would be taking place - and still is rife in areas where no major crime figure has or does live - that's nearly non existent in area's like where Escobar lived?

Where were the people of Medellín's taxes or government when they were living in a rubbish dump?

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Its true that the media plays a big part as well. Watching movies like The Godfather you see these epic struggles against drug dealers and deep philosophies and whatnot, a complete whitewash.

The reality is that the mafia was all but wiped out after prohibition ended so they kept the ball rolling by introducing heroin first to prostitutes to keep them under control, and then to poor communities, laying the groundwork for all the ghetto misery we see today throughout the US.

The smarter guys expanded their horizons not only by drugs but by becoming involved in various other activities like the unions - well after prohibition

+ Drugs aren't the sole reason for the problems of ghetto's - they're often created by society itself; fúck all the poor, emigrants, trouble makers, ect. in some area and forget about them

Doc Ruby

batistuta9 wrote: »

That's not true at all, it's bullshít frankly.

Are you suggesting if it wasn't for powerful criminal figures there'd be no crime and people would live in some sort of utopian paradise?

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm telling you that every time someone looks away because it contravenes some schoolyard code, a community brings itself one step closer to being ruled by idiots they didn't vote for. That's what a rat really is.

batistuta9 wrote: »

What about the petty crime or other types of crime which would be taking place - and still is rife in areas where no major crime figure has or does live - that's nearly non existent in area's like where Escobar lived?

You're right, every neighbourhood should have its own drug lord looking after it. No, no wait, they tried that in Mexico and the bodycount is almost up to 60,000. Civilisation exists through cooperation, not bowing down to swaggering louts.

batistuta9 wrote: »

The smarter guys expanded their horizons not only by drugs but by becoming involved in various other activities like the unions - well after prohibition

+ Drugs aren't the sole reason for the problems of ghetto's - they're often created by society itself; fúck all the poor, emigrants, trouble makers, ect. in some area and forget about them

Everything is small beans compared to drugs in criminal enterprises. Take away the money, and you take away the power, which is why the mob was almost wiped out after prohibition ended. Drugs are particularly unique in that the victims collude in the crime, covering for the dealers to scratch that itch.

Are you really standing up for the morals of those illiterate chuckleheads in the American mafia?

coolhandluke

Paddy's alright.....