Galwayguy35 wrote: » There was a programme on a few months ago about Mary Bell who killed two children when she was ten.
deadman1972 wrote: » Yes but my point is you are BORN a psychopath therefore not being willing to give a child a label just because they are a child is an excercise in futility imho, if a child is a psychopath then they should be described as such, i see no reason why the same test would not work on a child as an adult. The psychopath will shine through, if it is not in the child then nothing will show.:D I am not a doctor either lets just sau=y i have expert personal experience so i know what i am talking about:eek:
Odysseus wrote: » My understanding of this is that it is quite a controversial concept; yet it is often referred to in movies and the like of CSI and Criminal Minds. Additionally the FBI used to use this concept when training Law Enforcement Officers. However, it has never been proved as a valid concept, even though it has made its way into the language of forensic studies. Once again my understanding is that this concept referred to violent offenders or even serial killers not necessarily psychopaths. I think it needs to be stated again that there is a difference between psychopaths and criminal psychopaths. It is an easy one to highlight but it is often forgotten, so to say it again not all people classified as psychopaths are violent or killers, and not all killers are psychopaths. Now I am not a forensic psychologist, I do get to work with some very interesting people and people who have committed some very nasty acts. I certainly have noted the presence of McDonalds Triad in some people who have serious nasty offences; so it is present in some people. However, with saying that, if I was taking a history and these three behaviours came to light, it would raise an eyebrow; and it would certainly suggest a difficult childhood, but after that for me each client has a different story to tell. From what I understand that triad was just accepted into various theories; however, currently, I think the consensus is that it needs to be research further. So Rasheed that is my thoughts on it, at this ungodly hour. There are a few forensic psychologists around here; they could certainly add a lot more than I could.
When Sutcliffe was stripped of his clothing at the police station he was wearing a V-neck sweater under his trousers. The sleeves had been pulled over his legs and the V-neck exposed his genital area. The front of the elbows were padded to protect his knees as, presumably, he knelt over his victims' corpses.
DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: » Just to touch on Hitler again there's evidence to suggest that he was hesitant in implementing the 'final solution.' Heydrich and Goring pushed for it, Hitler had suggested the island of Madagascar as a location to plant members of the Jewish faith. I suppose writing about your supposed ideology is easier than implementing it.
Rasheed wrote: » Well thank you very much for your reply! Yeah, it was Criminal Minds that I heard it first so I read up a biteen on it. It's a very interesting field and you're dead right to highlight that a person can be a psychopath but not necessarily a violent murderer or that all violent murderers are psychopaths. I do confuse the two myself, I think media and programmes like the CSIs and Criminal Minds always put psychopaths and homocidal maniacs, hand in hand with no middle ground.
Lingua Franca wrote: » See, I don't think she was a psychopath and therefore doesn't fit in this thread. She had a horrific childhood which culminated in what she did, but once she was lifted from her nightmare of a homelife she became a model prisoner, got educated, gor released and started a family. She's gone to great lengths to protect her daughter from her past. She hasn't been in trouble since her release. She was never diagnosed as a psychopath, but a very troubled and disturbed little girl due to being prostituted out (with some degree of S&M and asphyxia) from about the age of four. There's footage on youtube of another little girl who is a total ball of hate and rage due to horrible incestuous sexual abuse. Watching it, watching her talk coldly about all the pain she's been through, why she tortures animals and why she painfully molests her baby brother you could easily write her off as a pyschopath. She's not, she's just a child who had no chance at being normal. With plenty of love, understanding and therapy she's grown up to become a beautiful person, a paediatric nurse who teaches about attachment disorders and parenting methods. We don't write children off for a reason, and with good reason.
Odysseus wrote: » Yeah, the whole area of forensic psych is quite interesting; if you like it why not get a few core texts in the area. Apart from the like of amazon, you often seem in Hodges, waterstones etc. Expensive though, the last one I picked up was 97e if I remember correctly:eek: Of course the are cheaper ones too
Galwayguy35 wrote: » Yes I know Mary Bell suffered horrible abuse as a kid, but the fact is that many kids here in Ireland suffered the same at the hands of that scumbag Brendan Smyth and others but didn't kill and mutilate the body of a little boy like Bell did. Although the girl that was with Bell seems to have got off very lightly considering she was present at the murder, I don't know how much of a part she played in it though. How can we say that they will never do it again?
Lingua Franca wrote: » A couple of points: those molested by Brendan Smyth and his ilk most likely had some respite in normal home lives. Mary Bell was prostituted by her drunken prostitute mother. No normality, no joy, no respite so she could learn to be a normal girl. Same with the other little girl I mentioned, she had no joy and no normal home life at all and could easily have done what Mary Bell did had someone not intervened and rescued her. I'm not trying to excuse what are truly heinous crimes, but we are talking about psychopathy as a disorder and I don't think horribly abused children acting out (ugh, that's such a weak thing to say about their crimes but I don't how else to phrase it) necessarily fit the diagnosis. No doubt there have been some who do but there's certainly precedent for abused children to become abusers and not have any limits. Not all psychopaths are killers and by the same token not all killers are psychopaths. I can't say that Mary Bell will never do it again but she's kept her nose clean for 32 years now. I don't think it's fair to just write off horribly abused children as psychopaths for perpetrating abuse. Not when we can intervene and try to rehabilitate them.
Lingua Franca wrote: » I can't. That's why I picked Mary Bell out of your post. I felt a little sorry for her when I learned of what she'd gone through. I know one of the Bulger murderers had a violent home life with drunk parents and loads of rough brothers hardening each other up with beatings, the other had a normal, loving home life, and that only one of them reoffended. I wonder which one? I'll look it up. Edit: Ok, I checked it out. Robert Thompson was the one with violent alcoholic parents and violent brothers. He showed no remorse at the trial and James Bulger's mum tried to have him certified as a psychopath. To my knowledge, he has not reoffended. Jon Venables was the one from the less violent background, although I'm reading that his older brother and younger sister have disabilities and his parents relationship was on again/off again . He appeared to be the instigator. He showed a lot of remorse and guilt at trial. He's the one currently locked up indefinitely again. There's still no reason for any of their actions. I wonder if they even know what was going through their heads and why they did what they did? Was it rage, power? In Mary Bell's case she wouldn't have thought strangling was fatal or even abnormal since it had been happening to her since a young age. The post mortem mutilation must have been a power issue for her. Ugh, lovely conversation to be having first thing in the am!
MagicSean wrote: » People dont need a reason to be depraved. I would consider acts of depravity to be common enough in Ireland yet very few would have any identifiable reason.
deadman1972 wrote: » children not being classified as psychopaths is a legal thing, because then they would have to be tried as adults and not minors,psychopath is something you are born with so it is entirely possible to be a child and a psychopath
Dravokivich wrote: » NO, the very of idea of history is from written records. you mean pre-history, which is not what the thread is about.
keithclancy wrote: » Khan Noonien Singh was a complete Psycho.
Mr. Spock: From 1992 through 1996, absolute ruler of more than a quarter of your world, from Asia through the Middle East. Dr. McCoy: The last of the tyrants to be overthrown. Scott: I must confess, gentlemen. I've always held a sneaking admiration for this one. Capt. Kirk: He was the best of the tyrants and the most dangerous. They were supermen in a sense. Stronger, braver, certainly more ambitious, more daring. Mr. Spock: Gentlemen, this romanticism about a ruthless dictator is... Capt. Kirk: Mr. Spock, we humans have a streak of barbarism in us. Appalling, but there, nevertheless. Scott: There were no massacres under his rule. Mr. Spock: And as little freedom. Dr. McCoy: No wars until he was attacked.
DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: » Who in your opinion was the worst human being to ever walk this planet regardless of any innate mental health problems. I was thinking Hitler, what makes it even worse for him was that he wasn't suffering from psychotic tendencies, he was born perfectly normal. Another person I think of is Thug Behram, who was responsible for 931 murders in India in the 19th century, his name is the origin of the word thug in our language.
EoghanIRL wrote: » Hitler was just misunderstood , he just wanted the German economy to prosper and well ehm kill the Jews and steal their teeth.
EoghanIRL wrote: » Hitler was just misunderstood , he just wanted the German economy to prosper and well ehm persecute the Jews .
jmayo wrote: » The scary thing is that the Nazi ideology fostered and gave a home to psychopaths
