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The Tyrannosaur Thread- Anything T. rex or tyrannosaurid related

Adam Khor

New giant tyrannosaurid!

It's called Zhuchengtyrannus magnus, was just a tad smaller than T. rex (11 m long and 6 tons) and fed on giant hadrosaur Shantungosaurus.

zhuchengtyrannus.jpg?w=500&h=419

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Comments

Galvasean

The controversy just wont go away...
http://chasmosaurs.blogspot.ie/2012/08/the-tarbosaurus-saga-continues.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

Adam Khor

This Tarbosaurus refuses to let go of the headlines. Now it seems the skeleton is actually a composite of several individuals, not a single one:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/06/us-usa-dinosaur-mongolia-idUSBRE88501820120906

Galvasean

Read about that in the paper today. Should take a while before this one is sorted out unfortunately. The judge called it a sort of "frankenstein" dinosaur.

Adam Khor

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2012/10/18/molecular-analysis-supports-controversial-claim-for-dinosaur-cells/

newmug

Jurrasic Park, here we come!

Adam Khor

And the story continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/fla-man-charged-ny-dinosaur-fossils-case-183421980--finance.html

Galvasean

I still can't get my head around how it managed to stay preserved for so long.

Ziphius

Galvasean wrote: »

I still can't get my head around how it managed to stay preserved for so long.

Yeah it's crazy. I read the paper last night so I'll try give a summary of their theory, though I'll probably get it a bit of it mixed up.

The 'cells' found were ostecytes or bone cells. They were isolated by dissolving the bone and then using a few treatments (e.g. centrifugation). When I first heard about this I imagined a palaeontologist cracking open a bone and finding some goo in the cavity inside, from reading the paper it seems that it is basically the cell 'skeletons' (e.g. structural proteins such as actin) that have been preserved inside the structure of the bones.

The major line of evidence that these are dinosaur cells and not anything else is that antibodies from ostriches will bind to them. This didn't happen in the alligator and bacteria controls.

The researchers propose that the the location deep within the bone is what protects the cells from the rapid decay we would typically imagine. Osteocytes, they claim, are especially long lived and would not exhibit the same rate of turn over as other cell types such as skin or intestinal cells, perhaps lasting the entire lifespan of the animal (and beyond).

The location of the cells also protects them from degradation due to environmental conditions as well as breakdown by bacteria. The researches also posit that they are protected from the organisms own systems which breakdown damaged or diseased cells.

Finally the researchers suggest that the releases of high levels of iron from the breakdown of hemoglobin acts to 'fix' the cells (i.e. preserve them). I always thought that in order to preserve cells and tissue for extended periods of time that the water must be removed an replaced with some other preserving agent. I don't think the researchers address this but I may be wrong.

It's certainly an incredible discovery if it's true and of immense scientific value. I look forward to what other researchers write about this.

McG

newmug wrote: »

Jurrasic Park, here we come!

sadly not, recent studies suggest DNA has a half life of 521 years so no hope of getting any readable DNA

http://www.nature.com/news/dna-has-a-521-year-half-life-1.11555

Ziphius

McG wrote: »

sadly not, recent studies suggest DNA has a half life of 521 years so no hope of getting any readable DNA

http://www.nature.com/news/dna-has-a-521-year-half-life-1.11555

Weird, the New Scientist story on this same research gives a half like of ~150,000 years. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22359-dnas-halflife-identified-using-fossil-bones.html

Shows how important it is to look at the primary literature I suppose.

The T. rex soft tissue paper claims that DNA was found in the dinosaur 'cells'. Though it has been significantly degraded.

Ziphius

Seems finding dinosaur cells and DNA isn't anything new. This paper from 1995 claims evidence of DNA in osteocytes in T. rex's close relative Tarbosaurus. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8612871

Also regarding the disagreement in the DNA half-life. My understanding that the ~500 year figure refers to the expected half life of the fossils from the particular locations used in this study (i.e. Mitochondrial DNA from New Zealand moa) while the older 150,000 year figure is for "perfect" conditions (i.e. temperature maintained at -5 degrees C). The oldest preserved DNA comes from ice cores and is estimated to be between 400,000 and 800,000 years old.

Paper is open access available here: http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2012/10/05/rspb.2012.1745

Adam Khor

No more long-armed Appalachiosaurus

It's a shame, it looked cool with those long arms.

http://www.daily-tribune.com/view/full_story/21185340/article-Tellus--Appalachiosaurus-to-receive-shorter-arms-Friday?instance=main_article

Galvasean

You might say scientists have... disarmed him!

Rubecula

Just a bit of 'armless research methinks.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20855935

He faces a maximum of 17 years imprisonment when he is sentenced in April.

US Attorney Preet Bharara said authorities would now begin the process of returning the fossils to their countries of origin.

"Fossils and ancient skeletal remains are part of the fabric of a country's natural history and cultural heritage, and black marketers like Prokopi who illegally export and sell these wonders, steal a slice of that history," he said.

Rubecula

Interesting, and slightly OT. What about the Elgin Marbles?

Adam Khor

Not a T-Rex, tho... a Tarbosaurus bataar.

Damn journalists...

Galvasean

Or possibly a Tyrannosaurus bataar, depending on which palaeontologists you listen to. FWIW, nowhere in the linked article does it say, "T. rex".

Adam Khor

Galvasean wrote: »

Or possibly a Tyrannosaurus bataar, depending on which palaeontologists you listen to. FWIW, nowhere in the linked article does it say, "T. rex".

Yeah, that was my point. It seems, tho, that Tarbosaurus may actually be more related to Alioramus than to Tyrannosaurus; sort of convergent evolution between two different tyrannosaur linneages. If so, we can kiss "Tyrannosaurus bataar" goodbye and T-Rex goes back to being the only known species of its genus...

Rubecula

Adam Khor wrote: »

Yeah, that was my point. It seems, tho, that Tarbosaurus may actually be more related to Alioramus than to Tyrannosaurus; sort of convergent evolution between two different tyrannosaur linneages. If so, we can kiss "Tyrannosaurus bataar" goodbye and T-Rex goes back to being the only known species of its genus...

That was something that escaped me totally until you pointed it out Adam. Thank you for that. Convergent evolution must have occurred back then, it occurs today. I am now feeling quite intrigued. (And foolish for missing the point)

Galvasean

Naming aside, I am glad to see the book being finally thrown at fossil poachers. For too long they have been getting off lightly.

Adam Khor

Found this article that is obviously pro-Prokopi.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/paleontologist-may-lose-freedom-for-living-his-dream/1268296

Squeaky the Squirrel

Bones of Contention

Long Long read, only a bit of the way down but it's interesting. It's about an auction house trying to sell a 75% complete Tarbosaurus bataar. T. bataar (cousin of the T-Rex) that may or may not have been illegally taken out of Mongolia.

Breaks off into a bit of a history lesson about Fossil Hunting and how Jurassic Park and the sale of a T Rex for $8.4mil put the industry in the spot light.

I'm only as far as the big P :P

Adam Khor

Thanks Squeaky

I've merged your thread and another about the same case into this one.

Adam Khor

This seems like the last chapter to the Tarbosaurus skeleton saga. The dino goes back to Mongolia, and Prokopi probably goes to jail. For 10 years. :eek:

http://news.yahoo.com/tyrannosaurus-center-custody-case-going-home-mongolia-002349241--mma.html

Galvasean

Glad the skeleton is gone back to Mongolia. At least ten years in jail seems a tad excessive though.

Capt'n Midnight

Galvasean wrote: »

Glad the skeleton is gone back to Mongolia. At least ten years in jail seems a tad excessive though.

Not really when you consider what he did and where he did it.

Authorities accused Prokopi of having lied on U.S. customs forms when he declared the fossilized bones were worth $19,000.

Tax avoidance is big business in the US, (Facebook turned a couple of billion profit into a tax-rebate) but you're royally screwed if found guilty of tax evasion. It's not a secret of what the IRS did to Al Capone.

Even here lying on a customs form can mean serious jail time.

Adam Khor

I thought the ten years were for fossil smuggling, which did seem excessive...

Adam Khor

Known from very good remains.

Article is in Chinese, tho

http://www.uua.cn/news/show-14751-1.html

Galvasean

Looks like a good specimen. I look forward to hearing more about it.