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Views of Pornography?

Do you feel society's view of pornography has changed due to the interweb?

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philologos wrote: »

I'll give a response when I'm back on a computer this evening but for future responders it'd be important to say please focus on my argument rather than making ad-hominems. Secondly I've not had anything to do with the Roman Catholic Church and I'm an evangelical Christian.

Looking forward to getting into these later.

I'd just like to thank you at this juncture for taking these questions and allowing us to post on your thread "Porn: Please Stop"

Christ the Redeemer

It's pictures and videos of people ****ing. Only cretinous religious types and hyper feminists oppose it.

token101 wrote: »

They'd tried to block porn in the UK and were told to **** off. I can sympathise with the American gun nuts in that respect, they will have to pry my pornography from my cold dead hands.

I suspect that should have read "....they'll have to pry my hands off my cold dead...." well you get the idea....

philologos wrote: »

I'll give a response when I'm back on a computer this evening but for future responders it'd be important to say please focus on my argument rather than making ad-hominems. Secondly I've not had anything to do with the Roman Catholic Church and I'm an evangelical Christian.

Looking forward to getting into these later.

Not even Jesus could've predicted that response!!

We'll be seeing you for good if that's the case

I'll give a response when I'm back on a computer this evening but for future responders it'd be important to say please focus on my argument rather than making ad-hominems. Secondly I've not had anything to do with the Roman Catholic Church and I'm an evangelical Christian.

Looking forward to getting into these later.

Eramen wrote: »

Of course it's detrimental. It can become an addiction which is never beneficial.

Many things can become an addiction. Addiction is the problem not the thing one actually becomes addicted to. Addiction is something we should focus our energy on but all to often people opportunistically indict something they have a person bias against with the crimes of addiction. Like Porn.

The argument "X is bad because X can become addictive" has never been useful or convincing or interesting in my opinion. If we were to indict and attack and even ban everything and anything with the potential to become addictive we would not be left with much.

philologos wrote: »

Firstly, it promotes treating people as sexual objects rather than in their fullness as human beings. Pornography is dehumanising and degrading.

That is your opinion. Opinion is not fact. It is a nonsensical opinion too. It makes as much sense as saying "Football treats people as sporting objects rather than in their fullness as human beings".

You declaring it by fiat to be degrading or dehumanising does not make it so by magic. You are all too often willing, even keen, to put your opinions forward as if they are facts.

In fact given it is you judging a whole community in one single industry in such a fashion it is only YOU doing the dehumanising and degrading by speaking of them in such a fashion.

philologos wrote: »

If you desire someone else sexually and someone else is fulfilling your sexual desires in the case of marriage that's on par with adultery.

By YOUR standards of how a relationship should be that is. Again you put your opinion forward as if it is fact or objective when it is anything but. Different people have different requirements and standards in their relationship. If you are in a relationship where you do not want the other(s) in that relationship indulging in porn then by all means make that clear to them as a standard you require in your relationships.

But do not presume that everyone else has to follow your standards. They do not, nor should they. Plenty of people are perfectly happy having porn use, individually or collectively, as part of their relationships.

philologos wrote: »

Fifthly, no matter how much we deny it what we watch and what we listen to has an impact on how we view others around us.

You say this as if "impact" is by default a bad thing. Even if this declaration above is true... and you have not established it is just declared it is.... then so what? "An impact" says nothing at all. You have to establish... again with a little more than your personal opinions which you keep insisting on putting forward as fact.... that the impact it has is a damaging or detrimental one.

You just type "an impact" in the hope the reader will automatically assume it is a negative one.

philologos wrote: »

Finally, pornography sexually exploits the actors in it.

Again so what? All industry exploits the people in it for a given value of "Exploit". We are not more (or less) exploiting actors in pornography than we are exploiting footballers in a pitch when watching a game. It is their job and if you want to try to make working at your job to be synonymous with "exploitation" then you have a LOT more work to do than simply declaring it.

philologos wrote: »

Feel free to pick these up with me.

I just did. Bet you do not reply though.

1ZRed wrote: »

1. There is no sexual exploitation going on. Those actors are there of their own choosing and accord. Believe it or not, some people like the idea of being in the pornographic industry. There is nothing wrong with that or their choice.

How do you know this? Just because the web site looks legit and the participants appear to be consenting does not mean there is no coercion or exploitation off-screen. You have no way of knowing.

Looking at pornography is an enormous personal risk. What if some of the pictures are of under 18's or who people who 'appear to be under 18'? Some material that is legal to view in one country, say the US, is illegal in Ireland or the UK. You're entering a minefield of risk. Have you read up on relevant laws?

Keep the phone number of a good lawyer beside that box of tissues.

philologos wrote: »

Firstly, it promotes treating people as sexual objects rather than in their fullness as human beings. Pornography is dehumanising and degrading.

Doesn't the Catholic Church prohibit women from entering as priests? Wouldn't you say that's viewing someone as "sexual objects rather than in their fullness as human beings"?

philologos wrote: »

Secondly, it promotes an unnatural idea of sexuality. Namely that if people base their point of view of sexuality on pornography eventually they suspect that all their sexual encounters must of necessity be similar to this.

And Catholic priests? Celibacy is healthy and has never lead to any unhealthy abuse has it?

philologos wrote: »

Thirdly, if one is in a relationship or a marriage, pornography is essentially saying that you can't find full sexual satisfaction in your partner. Personally that's on par with marital infidelity to me. There's very little difference between this and actually having sex with someone else. If you desire someone else sexually and someone else is fulfilling your sexual desires in the case of marriage that's on par with adultery.

That's just ****ing absurd really. Even if you're in a relationship you still find other people sexually attractive, that's human instinct. You haven't actually cheated, you've just thought about having sex with someone else. If I see someone I dislike and think about punching them in the face that isn't on a par with assault.

philologos wrote: »

Fourthly, pornography can be addictive and it can lead people into a pattern of behaviour that they never wanted to begin with. Sex addiction in any form can be extremely difficult to break without considerably willpower. Thankfully more and more people are starting to speak out against this and provide assistance to those who want it.

Same as gambling, alcohol, chocolate, fast food or religion. Down to the individual isn't it really? The guys who go and blow up buildings in the name of Allah do far more damage than the guy who can't have sex with his wife because he's watched too much porn.

philologos wrote: »

Fifthly, no matter how much we deny it what we watch and what we listen to has an impact on how we view others around us. This is probably quite linked to the second point. People say that pornography insofar as it is private does no harm to society. The reality is that that isn't true. It mightn't cause direct harm (except in the case of marital situations, or in the case of a relationship where it will affect your partner directly) but I think it does cause indirect harm as our attitudes change towards women. Moreover I think that pornography, or even just lad's mags, the Sun and anything else that falls into the light-porn side of it produces in particular a sexist attitude towards women.

Religion has caused far more problems and death in society than pornography ever has or ever will. Again, allegations of sexism from anyone in organised religion is a bit like the KKK railing against racism, hypocrisy beyond belief.

philologos wrote: »

Finally, pornography sexually exploits the actors in it. This is strongly linked to point 1 but I can't support an industry that profiteers from sexual exploitation. One doesn't know the full context behind those acting in it, and it is highly possible that in a number of cases that these people are in this against their will. Moreover, I think if many of us were to think "what if that was my daughter" their thoughts towards pornography as an industry would change.

Feel free to pick these up with me. I disagree very strongly with the porn industry and think it is destructive. It doesn't free anything up. Pornography enslaves if anything.

And the church doesn't profit from the believers at all does it? The church preaches vows of poverty from ornate palaces. Noone in pornography is brainwashed into believing that what they are doing is a labour of love, unlike the believers who brainwashed into believing that giving the church money will offer them favour with the invisible man. At least porn is honest! And I haven't heard of any legit porn companies offering safe havens to paedophiles and enabling them, and that's something that you would hear about!

Pornography might not be a desirable career choice in society but isn't intrinsically evil like organised religion is. I feel very strongly about organised religion, feel free to pick me up on anything there.

philologos wrote: »

I think it is.

Firstly, it promotes treating people as sexual objects rather than in their fullness as human beings. Pornography is dehumanising and degrading.

Well if you see all it is, and all who is in it, as degraded and dehumanised then that is your view on it and is actually how you truly see it, which is wrong.

Secondly, it promotes an unnatural idea of sexuality. Namely that if people base their point of view of sexuality on pornography eventually they suspect that all their sexual encounters must of necessity be similar to this.

Unnatural view of sexuality? Sorry would you rather we all participated in a bit of good auld fashioned catholic guilt?

That is true that it can create unrealistic expectations for sex but it can also teach a lot and let's you figure things out and end up being fairly educational from that point of view. I know I learned a fuck of a lot from porn growing up, so your one size fits all idea that all porn promotes an unnatural idea of sexuality is very false and is an outdated theory.

Thirdly, if one is in a relationship or a marriage, pornography is essentially saying that you can't find full sexual satisfaction in your partner. Personally that's on par with marital infidelity to me. There's very little difference between this and actually having sex with someone else. If you desire someone else sexually and someone else is fulfilling your sexual desires in the case of marriage that's on par with adultery.

Well I don't know about you but I don't regard having a sly pull in front of a computer screen as anywhere near having sex, let alone cheating.

And if you feel having sexual desires for someone other than your partner is on par with adultery, then what if a man or woman where to see an attractive person in the street and then for them to have a sexual fantasy about them, is that still cheating? Or does it strictly have to be porn?

Fourthly, pornography can be addictive and it can lead people into a pattern of behaviour that they never wanted to begin with. Sex addiction in any form can be extremely difficult to break without considerably willpower. Thankfully more and more people are starting to speak out against this and provide assistance to those who want it.

Too much of anything is a bad thing! Everything in moderation is key.

Plus I made the point that it's not the pornography which is at fault, it's the user who abuses it. Use it as it is meant as a way to unwind or entertain yourself but don't become reliant or dependent on it and you'll be fine. Again, pornography isn't the sole issue there, it's the user.

Fifthly, no matter how much we deny it what we watch and what we listen to has an impact on how we view others around us. This is probably quite linked to the second point. People say that pornography insofar as it is private does no harm to society. The reality is that that isn't true. It mightn't cause direct harm (except in the case of marital situations, or in the case of a relationship where it will affect your partner directly) but I think it does cause indirect harm as our attitudes change towards women. Moreover I think that pornography, or even just lad's mags, the Sun and anything else that falls into the light-porn side of it produces in particular a sexist attitude towards women.

What if you don't view pornography with any women at all in it? What if women watch porn, does that produce a sexist attitude toward men?

Of course not, that is such an archaic argument against porn that it's all so sexist towards women. So you'd see no issues with me watching gay porn then seeing as though it isn't sexist towards women?

Finally, pornography sexually exploits the actors in it. This is strongly linked to point 1 but I can't support an industry that profiteers from sexual exploitation. One doesn't know the full context behind those acting in it, and it is highly possible that in a number of cases that these people are in this against their will. Moreover, I think if many of us were to think "what if that was my daughter" their thoughts towards pornography as an industry would change.

You're really just mirroring your own prejudices against porn here and claiming to be on the right and non-judgmental side of things. Your view of this is actually so unrealistic and flawed I don't know where to start.

1. There is no sexual exploitation going on. Those actors are there of their own choosing and accord. Believe it or not, some people like the idea of being in the pornographic industry. There is nothing wrong with that or their choice.

2. "What if it was my daughter"? Well your daughter has a will of her own and is there of her own choosing. If you want the perception of porn to change you're going about it the wrong way and making it seem shameful and perverted, even though it is a commonly used by many people. So if the large majority of people to use porn, many seeing it as normal, natural to them and without issue, then why have these judgemental attitudes towards those who produce the very thing you enjoy and get pleasure from? It's hypocritical.

Feel free to pick these up with me. I disagree very strongly with the porn industry and think it is destructive. It doesn't free anything up. Pornography enslaves if anything.

Yeah, you think that. You are also a very religious person, and openly so, hardly an unbiased view on the matter, eh?

Also, the irony of pornography enslaving! Because I've NEVER heard that said of religion! :pac:

1ZRed wrote: »

How so? As long as there are humans around there will be porn around along side us, and as long as mainstream porn has been available what detriment has there been because of it?

I wouldn't say porn is detrimental in itself and actually could play a role in freeing up how you view and approach sexuality, in a good way.

I think it is.

Firstly, it promotes treating people as sexual objects rather than in their fullness as human beings. Pornography is dehumanising and degrading.

Secondly, it promotes an unnatural idea of sexuality. Namely that if people base their point of view of sexuality on pornography eventually they suspect that all their sexual encounters must of necessity be similar to this.

Thirdly, if one is in a relationship or a marriage, pornography is essentially saying that you can't find full sexual satisfaction in your partner. Personally that's on par with marital infidelity to me. There's very little difference between this and actually having sex with someone else. If you desire someone else sexually and someone else is fulfilling your sexual desires in the case of marriage that's on par with adultery.

Fourthly, pornography can be addictive and it can lead people into a pattern of behaviour that they never wanted to begin with. Sex addiction in any form can be extremely difficult to break without considerably willpower. Thankfully more and more people are starting to speak out against this and provide assistance to those who want it.

Fifthly, no matter how much we deny it what we watch and what we listen to has an impact on how we view others around us. This is probably quite linked to the second point. People say that pornography insofar as it is private does no harm to society. The reality is that that isn't true. It mightn't cause direct harm (except in the case of marital situations, or in the case of a relationship where it will affect your partner directly) but I think it does cause indirect harm as our attitudes change towards women. Moreover I think that pornography, or even just lad's mags, the Sun and anything else that falls into the light-porn side of it produces in particular a sexist attitude towards women.

Finally, pornography sexually exploits the actors in it. This is strongly linked to point 1 but I can't support an industry that profiteers from sexual exploitation. One doesn't know the full context behind those acting in it, and it is highly possible that in a number of cases that these people are in this against their will. Moreover, I think if many of us were to think "what if that was my daughter" their thoughts towards pornography as an industry would change.

Feel free to pick these up with me. I disagree very strongly with the porn industry and think it is destructive. It doesn't free anything up. Pornography enslaves if anything.

They'd tried to block porn in the UK and were told to **** off. I can sympathise with the American gun nuts in that respect, they will have to pry my pornography from my cold dead hands.

Eramen wrote: »

...........

I notice you keep mentioning young men. What about the older men and women of all ages that utilise porn? Do they not fit your stereotype so you pretend it doesn't happen? In a survey conducted on myself, I concluded that organised religion was the addiction that had the most detrimental affect on society. I've certainly seen more evidence of that than anything you've posted.

Your posts remind of the anti-robosexual video from Futuarama actually. Nobody's forcing you to watch porn so why don't you just mind your own business.

Sinfonia wrote: »

I was. Why is it laughable?

I'm not saying porn addiction doesn't exist, nor am I saying that it should not be dealt with accordingly; I'm simply saying that while it is a problem for some, it is not for many others. As with anything potentially addictive or harmful, whether or not it is a problem is down to the individual user.
Hence 1ZRed's argument: pornography, as a form of entertainment/art/whatever, is not necessarily a harmful thing. The abuse of pornography however, may be for certain people who do so.

It's use has a strong chance of leading to addiction, which is why education and more controlled regulation by the family, community and governments must take place. I'm looking at the big picture. If one looks into the stats and the biological and other sciences, it's obvious that we have gone past the junction were the individual is the ultimate decision maker in regards to porn usage and availability. The same must inevitability happen to porn as has just happened with smoking, as the effects are similar in regards to chronic health and social concerns.

Nobody thinks that 'the individual can smoke as long as they don't get addicted'. It's not in their power to make this choice of addiction or non-addiction. In the end, what I am saying is that porn/masturbation/orgasm addiction needs to be highlighted publicly and in the open, just as with other harmful addictions. Then appropriate action must be taken of course.

Unfortunately the choices of the individual cannot serve to correct the problem now, we are past that stage, a collective will needs to be added to it to correct it. For too long its been shied away from. People just aren't aware of the consequences, in all its aspects, of what they are doing in regards to porn/masturbation/orgasm [PMO] addiction. It doesn't so much matter that some people may not get addicted when at this point a large proportion are addicted to some extent or another without knowing the issues are they are creating for themselves.

What we need is a constructive and collective approach to PMO addiction and rehabilitation. We gain nothing by ignoring the the problem which we are now documenting. I strongly recommend looking at the link/s I provided above.

One thing I can think of recently that is getting the beginnings of continuous public attention is gaming addiction. I believe the beginning of an awareness of PMO will be similar.

take everything

Eramen wrote: »

But if we accept that logic then nothing at all, no matter what it is, is detrimental to anyone or anything. There I can't accept it because there is other factors at work.

It is the attitudes which are connected with all of these things that is the detriment here. It's to be seen that with certain objects, substances and situations that they trigger well defined and predictable behavior patterns, and porn is one such example that is connected with specific mental/physical/social behavioral patterns, - precisely because it is a stimulant.

Considering that the majority of men in Western countries where studies have been carried out are very regular users/addicted to porn must give us immediate pause, because it signals a social and health dysfunction.

Also to be aware of is that hardcore pornography is now a mass-industry. Industries are formed to make money and thus the porn industry's prime interest is to get as many people watching, using and consuming it as possible for the longest amount of time, well into the future.

The emergence of free online and industry porn changes the game completely. Porn is no longer a little guilty pastime, because the industry has led many to addiction and it's now a fully blown psychological & biological health problem in society. It's time to address it as such.

It happened with the tobacco industry first, now with fast-food, and one day it will be seen with porn, if we be perfectly honest with ourselves. THe hazard is plain to see.

Yeah i'd imagine this is a timebomb for a significant percentage of young fellas growing up with hardcore porn as a norm from their early teens.

Eramen wrote: »

Just imagine if you made the same argument toward heroine use or the obesity problems, it would be seen as laughable.

I was. Why is it laughable?

I'm not saying porn addiction doesn't exist, nor am I saying that it should not be dealt with accordingly; I'm simply saying that while it is a problem for some, it is not for many others. As with anything potentially addictive or harmful, whether or not it is a problem is down to the individual user.
Hence 1ZRed's argument: pornography, as a form of entertainment/art/whatever, is not necessarily a harmful thing. The abuse of pornography however, may be for certain people who do so.

Sinfonia wrote: »

And as with all addictions, many people can make use of something without becoming addicted.

But the problem is that a large proportion of people get sufficiently addicted that the addiction in question becomes a social problem for everyone.

That we have reached that point is currently under observation, but initial statistics point to a worrying trend. That young men at least are addicted en masse.

Just imagine if you made the same argument toward heroine use or the obesity problems, it would be seen as laughable. Porn is just as serious in these terms with very real negatives.

1ZRed wrote: »

Yup, I'm actually aware porn addiction is actual thing and how it can lead to sexual exhaustion. That's why I said porn in itself isn't detrimental. Like anything, it's how the user uses it that makes the difference and everything in moderation.

Though in fairness it is kind of interesting to look into and how you can go overboard with something you'd pretty much take for granted.

But if we accept that logic then nothing at all, no matter what it is, is detrimental to anyone or anything. There I can't accept it because there is other factors at work.

It is the attitudes which are connected with all of these things that is the detriment here. It's to be seen that with certain objects, substances and situations that they trigger well defined and predictable behavior patterns, and porn is one such example that is connected with specific mental/physical/social behavioral patterns, - precisely because it is a stimulant.

Considering that the majority of men in Western countries where studies have been carried out are very regular users/addicted to porn must give us immediate pause, because it signals a social and health dysfunction.

Also to be aware of is that hardcore pornography is now a mass-industry. Industries are formed to make money and thus the porn industry's prime interest is to get as many people watching, using and consuming it as possible for the longest amount of time, well into the future.

The emergence of free online and industry porn changes the game completely. Porn is no longer a little guilty pastime, because the industry has led many to addiction and it's now a fully blown psychological & biological health problem in society. It's time to address it as such.

It happened with the tobacco industry first, now with fast-food, and one day it will be seen with porn, if we be perfectly honest with ourselves. THe hazard is plain to see.

Eramen wrote: »

Of course it's detrimental. It can become an addiction which is never beneficial. At that point people start to use porn for reasons of pure habit and not out of a healthy sexual desire. Partners are ignored, work is postponed, lives are ruined as with ALL addictions.

And as with all addictions, many people can make use of something without becoming addicted.

Eramen wrote: »

Of course it's detrimental. It can become an addiction which is never beneficial. At that point people start to use porn for reasons of pure habit and not out of a healthy sexual desire. Partners are ignored, work is postponed, lives are ruined as with ALL addictions.

The thing is that research is only now flowing into understanding porn addiction and we are discovering that porn addiction is much like any drug, high calorie food, smoking addictions with just as negative of consequences.

It's all about the affect on the brain, body and mind. The sad fact is that most men were studies have been done in western countries watch porn very regularly without knowing the health hazards. I kid you not. To say that there is no harm in frequent porn use is not sound logic at all.

Some of the science behind porn/masturbation addiction http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/

Yup, I'm actually aware porn addiction is an actual thing and how it can lead to sexual exhaustion. That's why I said porn in itself isn't detrimental. Like anything, it's how the user uses it that makes the difference and everything in moderation.

Though in fairness it is kind of interesting to look into and how you can go overboard with something you'd pretty much take for granted.

1ZRed wrote: »

How so? As long as there are humans around there will be porn around along side us, and as long as mainstream porn has been available what detriment has there been because of it?

I wouldn't say porn is detrimental in itself and actually could play a role in freeing up how you view and approach sexuality, in a good way.

Of course it's detrimental. It can become an addiction which is never beneficial. At that point people start to use porn for reasons of pure habit and not out of a healthy sexual desire. Partners are ignored, work is postponed, lives are ruined as with ALL addictions.

The thing is that research is only now flowing into understanding porn addiction and we are discovering that porn addiction is much like any drug, high calorie food, smoking addictions with just as negative of consequences.

It's all about the affect on the brain, body and mind. The sad fact is that most men were studies have been done in western countries watch porn very regularly without knowing the health hazards. I kid you not. To say that there is no harm in frequent porn use is not sound logic at all.

Some of the science behind porn/masturbation addiction http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/

I think people are more acceptant of it, simply because we are 'eased into it' through other means. Look around, we see it through softcore images in magazines, cinema, on tv and billboards and so on. Eventually there becomes a culture of bodies on display, for fashionable or sexual reasons as a means to influence the mass of people. Also the fact that it's free online means most people have seen it and its an easy entrance into harder content.

However it is a scourge, socially, sexually, healthfully, and metaphysically. I'd recommend any man to join us on NoFap if you have the steel to try it out and to see what you're capable of. Certainly to improve your sex life/life as a whole at any rate.

Your evolutionary development simply hasn't prepared your brain for porn, and for a lot of other things you obese porn addicted masturbating reality tv watchin' smokers! (Without getting too preachy about it

)

General Relativity

philologos wrote: »

Mine has changed for a different reason. I don't believe the industry you're working with has any positive role to play in society and more than likely a detrimental one in terms of what is a healthy approach to the subject of sexuality.

Thaught you were talking about Christanity there for a sec.

philologos wrote: »

Mine has changed for a different reason. I don't believe the industry you're working with has any positive role to play in society and more than likely a detrimental one in terms of what is a healthy approach to the subject of sexuality.

How so? As long as there are humans around there will be porn around along side us, and as long as mainstream porn has been available what detriment has there been because of it?

I wouldn't say porn is detrimental in itself and actually could play a role in freeing up how you view and approach sexuality, in a good way.

This is the OP...

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

any jobs? ive a hairy 'ron jeremy' style back

you need to be a 'professional woodsman' as well im afraid and a talented actor and able to give stellar performances just like oscar worthy titles such as '21 hump street', ejacula, le vampire', 'super hornio brothers 2' & the semenal 'throbin hood'

P0rn0King wrote: »

Blue Ray was chosen over HD DVD as the porn industry chose Blue Ray

Well HD DVD shaggin Boroka Balls was never gonna sell was it?

Actually, I was viewing porn on an old 19 inch television. They used to scatter the Playboy channel, but after 9pm, the static would clear up a bit and I could watch the channel with just a few fuzzy lines. It was awesome trying to figure out if I was looking at a bottle or... uhm... something else.

admiralofthefleet

any jobs? ive a hairy 'ron jeremy' style back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_5pjXEOJoc

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

o/

hello mr. dover

I've always been more of an admirer of Omar's work meself.