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5 December 2012 - The day Labour died

Robroy36

Today will go down as the day the Irish Labour party died. As junior partner in the coalition they were always going to be playing second fiddle to the big boys. Their greed for power after years on the sidelines has destroyed them. They have gone back on almost very one of their core principles over the last 20 months, with Rosin Shorthalls inglorious downfall emblematic of the poorly conceived pseudo-opposition role they feel they must fufil. In short, a group of low quality individuals coming together to make a low quality political party.

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Stheno

Nodin wrote: »

...and a number of others, we should hasten to add. A large number of others. At a very expensive hotel. Now while it would be a bit much to expect them to be sleeping in a tent and dressing up in sack cloth and ashes, applying a bit of "austerity" wouldn't strike me as being out of order...

Lovely, never been a fan of him tbh

Think of him as being the Michael Lowry style of politicos

Nodin

Stheno wrote: »

Lovely, never been a fan of him tbh

Think of him as being the Michael Lowry style of politicos

Indeed.....

SafeSurfer

Stinicker wrote: »

The have done everything expected of them and protected the interests of their core support group the Public sector and the unions from which they draw votes. The Public Sector has escaped the bulk of the cuts and they have just managed to save face by preserving the dole. The middle classes however get hammered and it is FG who will come out the worst.

Fianna Fail then have the bare necked arrogance to condemn everything and suddenly be the man of the people, it was good to see the other TD's walking out once the were given their say.

People must remember Fianna Fail are responsible for all this and them alone and what they did to the country from 1997-2011. Fianna Fail wrecked the country and should never again be given a say in its running. If people want an alternative then more of them should either vote for Labour, Sinn Fein or FG and let either FG have an outright majority or let Labour and Sinn Fein go into office together. People are of course too bigoted to vote Sinn Fein. The budget was bad yes but I know this Gov are only trying to make the best of a poisoned chalice left to them by the Fianna Fail gangsters.

People are quick to condemn but should remember Fianna Fail had three budgets from 2007,2008 & 2009 to stop the collapse and they choose to do nothing except cut the dole in 2009 & 2010 effecting the most unfortunate in society all the time still trying to flog the already dead cat of their property ponzi scheme with soft landings and ever increasing amounts for the public sector to bolster their support base from what were typical Labour voters.

So basically you are saying don't blame FG for this budget, blame FF and vote FG at the next election to ensure they get an overall majority at the next election?

Stinicker

Stheno wrote: »

Agreed, I often think people paint FF/Greens as the cause of the downfall when the opposition at the time were shrieking about how poor the budgets were in benefitting the people

The Celtic Tiger budgets did very little for the ordinary person and all they did was whip up mania for property. The only people who benefitted from the Celtic Tiger were cronie developers and Public Sector workers who got pay increase after pay increase for industrial relations.

Most of the boom of the Celtic Tiger was attributed to the global boom of the day and Ireland surfed that wave, if Ireland had governance proper FF would have poured cold water on it and brought the economy back into reality and we could be in a similar position to Canada or even benefit like Poland is today from it. The fact of the matter is Fianna Fail are corrupt and drove on until they killed the golden cow. There was a global crash yes but Fianna Fail's deliberate bankrupting of the state magnified our exposure to it hugely. We would be out the other side of it and growing now only for the disaster they made of everything. Yet they condemn FG/LAB's attempts to clean up their mess just like they did in the 1980's and 1990's when FG/LAB set Ireland up to surf the global wave of economic boom from the mid 90's to 2006 circa. Fianna Fail however was yer man who tried to stay up on that surfboard after 14 pints of stout.

Stinicker

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So basically you are saying don't blame FG for this budget, blame FF and vote FG at the next election to ensure they get an overall majority at the next election?

What I am saying is it is FF's fault so don't ever forget and for gods sake don't ever allow them back in. Vote for anyone but FF.

Stheno

Stinicker wrote: »

The Celtic Tiger budgets did very little for the ordinary person and all they did was whip up mania for property. The only people who benefitted from the Celtic Tiger were cronie developers and Public Sector workers who got pay increase after pay increase for industrial relations.

.

The Celtic tiger led to increases of almost 50% in the dole and other benefits, and a huge decrease in PAYE payable by many ordinary workers.

Those increases in many cases were disproportionate to inflation and people got used to living on them, now that they are being cut people are having problems imo.

SafeSurfer

Stinicker wrote: »

The Celtic Tiger budgets did very little for the ordinary person and all they did was whip up mania for property. The only people who benefitted from the Celtic Tiger were cronie developers and Public Sector workers who got pay increase after pay increase for industrial relations.

Most of the boom of the Celtic Tiger was attributed to the global boom of the day and Ireland surfed that wave, if Ireland had governance proper FF would have poured cold water on it and brought the economy back into reality and we could be in a similar position to Canada or even benefit like Poland is today from it. The fact of the matter is Fianna Fail are corrupt and drove on until they killed the golden cow. There was a global crash yes but Fianna Fail's deliberate bankrupting of the state magnified our exposure to it hugely. We would be out the other side of it and growing now only for the disaster they made of everything. Yet they condemn FG/LAB's attempts to clean up their mess just like they did in the 1980's and 1990's when FG/LAB set Ireland up to surf the global wave of economic boom from the mid 90's to 2006 circa. Fianna Fail however was yer man who tried to stay up on that surfboard after 14 pints of stout.

Nice bit or rewriting of history there. The crazy tax and spend 70s and 80s were ended by Ray Mc Sharry as FF fiance minister starting in 1987. FG/LAB were not the ones who consistently invested in education, who invested in the telecommunications infrastructure, who backed the IFSC. FG/LAB may have had greater vision on social issues, like divorce etc but FF laid the foundations for the short boom that we experienced.

SafeSurfer

Stinicker wrote: »

What I am saying is it is FF's fault so don't ever forget and for gods sake don't ever allow them back in. Vote for anyone but FF.

But if I dont want to vote for FG or Labour and you dont want me to vote for FF who can I vote for? Independents or Sinn Fein are the only other alternatives in my constituency. Neither of which will form part of a government any time soon.

Sir Oxman

Nodin wrote: »

...if you were getting on a bit, like meself, you'd know that Labour has "gone back" on anything resembling principle every time its gone into Government. They became massively popular under Dick Spring due to his attacks on FF - he then went into a coalition with...FF. Thats labour all over. Talks the talk, but has never really walked the walk.

Oh I remember that well, the "Springtide".
The one and only time I was fooled enough to vote Labour and then they went and got into bed with the corrupt FF.
Greens in 2007 as well.

Sir Oxman

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Labour were never very significant outside of urban areas anyway.

They will probably bear the brunt of the voters anger at the next election.

They'll be decimated and unfortunately most of their vote will go straight back to FF as recent polls suggest in Dublin at least, FF are top of the pops.
Jesus wept.

jank

Labour and most parties of the Left are always great at shouting and spouting nonesense from the sidelines. Give them the reins of power where decisions have to be done in the real world they are ALWAYS left wanting.
The problem with left wing politics is that eventually money runs out.

I welcome the demise of the Labour party.

efb

New Labour, New Danger

peking97

Nodin wrote: »

... Thats labour all over. Talks the talk, but has never really walked the walk.

Except of course for Róisín Shortall....an honourable politician at last! But of course she was left to walk alone.

Stheno

SafeSurfer wrote: »

But if I dont want to vote for FG or Labour and you dont want me to vote for FF who can I vote for? Independents or Sinn Fein are the only other alternatives in my constituency. Neither of which will form part of a government any time soon.

I'll vote for the party who had the guts to get this country out of the ****, who reduced our deficit, who did it fairly, etc.

I'll probably vote FG.

Well I would if James Reilly wasn't in my constituency, I've also got that peach of a candidate called Claire Daly to choose from.

Feck all of a real choice, makes a mockery of voting.

jank wrote: »

Labour and most parties of the Left are always great at shouting and spouting nonesense from the sidelines. Give them the reins of power where decisions have to be done in the real world they are ALWAYS left wanting.
The problem with left wing politics is that eventually money runs out.

I welcome the demise of the Labour party.

I do too, I want a party free to make decisions to end the pain of this crap, put in sweeping reforms, tackle the unions and hit the higher paid equitably

No such party in Ireland though.

B.A._Baracus

KKkitty wrote: »

Wasters the lot of them. Phil Hogan was out enjoying himself while the budget was passed too. None of them give a damn about the people of Ireland.

That's sadly it.

Actually guys. Lets break it down ... a politician becomes a politician for his or her own gain. Once in a position of power, they never make decisions or choices that will effect them. Thus looking out for ones own gain.

But the messed up thing is that are politicians different than any one of us?
But by saying that it does not one bit excuse politicians for the way they act. I mean, they take the job - they should have some morals or ethics knowing they make the rules. But they dont. Problem is people.... it would seem.

K3lso

KKkitty wrote: »

Wasters the lot of them. Phil Hogan was out enjoying himself while the budget was passed too. None of them give a damn about the people of Ireland.

Why on Earth would you ever think that they did!?!?!?!!!???? :eek:

Annasopra

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Labour were never very significant outside of urban areas anyway.

They will probably bear the brunt of the voters anger at the next election.

Actually historically labour was much much stronger in rural areas. It did well where unions organised farm labourers. Labour support in Kerry, Carlow/Kilkenny, Tipperary, Wicklow, Tipperary was originally built on rural support.

swimming in a sea

I'm not a Labour fan (not sure who I least detest:))

I was shocked when they went in to government with FG, I could not believe they were so starved for power that they could not see the bigger picture.

If they had stayed out I would have predicted an 18-24 month FG+IND government before it fell and new elections, Labour would have breezed in with a majority.

My guess for the next election would be

FG 30%
FF 20%
SF 20%
Lab 10%
Ind/others 20%

smash

First the greens, now labour. Lets hope SF are next!

czx

Nodin wrote: »

So she did run over your kitten.

That's awful.

I'm sure it was for the greater good

[Deleted User]

As junior member, they were always going to have little or no say.

They'll be decimated at the next election and it wouldn't suprise me if FF get in again

The junior member ironically always gets the biggest hit at the following election where it really should be FG as it's a FG budget.

Labour would have grown in strength had they stayed in opposition but the lure of being in government and all that came with it was too much.

opinionated3

swimming in a sea wrote: »

I'm not a Labour fan (not sure who I least detest:))

I was shocked when they went in to government with FG, I could not believe they were so starved for power that they could not see the bigger picture.

If they had stayed out I would have predicted an 18-24 month FG+IND government before it fell and new elections, Labour would have breezed in with a majority.

My guess for the next election would be

FG 30%
FF 20%
SF 20%
Lab 10%
Ind/others 20%

You think fg will get 30%!!? I would say swap that with sf (if sf get enough candidates)!

CruelCoin

Robroy36 wrote: »

Today will go down as the day the Irish Labour party died. As junior partner in the coalition they were always going to be playing second fiddle to the big boys. Their greed for power after years on the sidelines has destroyed them. They have gone back on almost very one of their core principles over the last 20 months, with Rosin Shorthalls inglorious downfall emblematic of the poorly conceived pseudo-opposition role they feel they must fufil. In short, a group of low quality individuals coming together to make a low quality political party.

A left-leaning party was never going to get along with a centre-right party very well to begin with.

Social got largely untouched, be happy with that much. Should have had a hacksaw taken to it, so take what the majority left you with.

twinytwo

Stinicker wrote: »

The have done everything expected of them and protected the interests of their core support group the Public sector and the unions from which they draw votes. The Public Sector has escaped the bulk of the cuts and they have just managed to save face by preserving the dole. The middle classes however get hammered and it is FG who will come out the worst.

Fianna Fail then have the bare necked arrogance to condemn everything and suddenly be the man of the people, it was good to see the other TD's walking out once the were given their say.

People must remember Fianna Fail are responsible for all this and them alone and what they did to the country from 1997-2011. Fianna Fail wrecked the country and should never again be given a say in its running. If people want an alternative then more of them should either vote for Labour, Sinn Fein or FG and let either FG have an outright majority or let Labour and Sinn Fein go into office together. People are of course too bigoted to vote Sinn Fein. The budget was bad yes but I know this Gov are only trying to make the best of a poisoned chalice left to them by the Fianna Fail gangsters.

People are quick to condemn but should remember Fianna Fail had three budgets from 2007,2008 & 2009 to stop the collapse and they choose to do nothing except cut the dole in 2009 & 2010 effecting the most unfortunate in society all the time still trying to flog the already dead cat of their property ponzi scheme with soft landings and ever increasing amounts for the public sector to bolster their support base from what were typical Labour voters.

How Fianna Fail is still in existance is beyond me... However the majority of this country will bitch and moan but wont actually do anything about it... God forbid they might have to put themselves out, go stand in the cold or miss the pub. Not a sack to be had between the populatuion of this country. The likes of Collins, Pearce and Connolly would turn in their grave to see the tripe they died for

swimming in a sea

opinionated3 wrote: »

You think fg will get 30%!!? I would say swap that with sf (if sf get enough candidates)!

To be fair anybody that voted FG are surely not surprised by what they got, I thing their vote will hold, but they may have only one way to keep SF out and that will be to go in with FF, interesting grim days ahead:eek:

.jacksparrow.

twinytwo wrote: »

How Fianna Fail is still in existance is beyond me... However the majority of this country will bitch and moan but wont actually do anything about it... God forbid they might have to put themselves out, go stand in the cold or miss the pub. Not a sack to be had between the populatuion of this country. The likes of Collins, Pearce and Connolly would turn in their grave to see the tripe they died for

Maybe its not as bad as people are tryin to make out,that's why they ain't out rioting.

kippy

Stinicker wrote: »

The Celtic Tiger budgets did very little for the ordinary person and all they did was whip up mania for property. The only people who benefitted from the Celtic Tiger were cronie developers and Public Sector workers who got pay increase after pay increase for industrial relations.

Most of the boom of the Celtic Tiger was attributed to the global boom of the day and Ireland surfed that wave, if Ireland had governance proper FF would have poured cold water on it and brought the economy back into reality and we could be in a similar position to Canada or even benefit like Poland is today from it. The fact of the matter is Fianna Fail are corrupt and drove on until they killed the golden cow. There was a global crash yes but Fianna Fail's deliberate bankrupting of the state magnified our exposure to it hugely. We would be out the other side of it and growing now only for the disaster they made of everything. Yet they condemn FG/LAB's attempts to clean up their mess just like they did in the 1980's and 1990's when FG/LAB set Ireland up to surf the global wave of economic boom from the mid 90's to 2006 circa. Fianna Fail however was yer man who tried to stay up on that surfboard after 14 pints of stout.

That's a very unrealistic view of history right there.
You don't think taxpayers in general, people on social welfare, students, SME's, those in employment directly related to the construction sector etc etc all had a short term bounce from the Celtic tiger?

kippy

Stinicker wrote: »

The have done everything expected of them and protected the interests of their core support group the Public sector and the unions from which they draw votes. The Public Sector has escaped the bulk of the cuts and they have just managed to save face by preserving the dole. The middle classes however get hammered and it is FG who will come out the worst.

Fianna Fail then have the bare necked arrogance to condemn everything and suddenly be the man of the people, it was good to see the other TD's walking out once the were given their say.

People must remember Fianna Fail are responsible for all this and them alone and what they did to the country from 1997-2011. Fianna Fail wrecked the country and should never again be given a say in its running. If people want an alternative then more of them should either vote for Labour, Sinn Fein or FG and let either FG have an outright majority or let Labour and Sinn Fein go into office together. People are of course too bigoted to vote Sinn Fein. The budget was bad yes but I know this Gov are only trying to make the best of a poisoned chalice left to them by the Fianna Fail gangsters.

People are quick to condemn but should remember Fianna Fail had three budgets from 2007,2008 & 2009 to stop the collapse and they choose to do nothing except cut the dole in 2009 & 2010 effecting the most unfortunate in society all the time still trying to flog the already dead cat of their property ponzi scheme with soft landings and ever increasing amounts for the public sector to bolster their support base from what were typical Labour voters.

I don't buy this bullsh1t for one second.
The labour parties "Core Support" are not the public sector.

twinytwo

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Maybe its not as bad as people are tryin to make out,that's why they ain't out rioting.

You seem to forget that even with this budget, we are still borrowing money just to keep the country afloat... What has this budget achieved?? not much really, as the real problems still have not been dealt with...( This is what people should be protesting against) the ramifications of which will still be affecting this country long after we are dead and buried

.jacksparrow.

twinytwo wrote: »

You seem to forget that even with this budget, we are still borrowing money just to keep the country afloat... What has this budget achieved?? not much really, as the real problems still have not been dealt with...( This is what people should be protesting against) the ramifications of which will still be affecting this country long after we are dead and buried

Yet people seem to be moaning about themselves,me me me.

As you said noone gives a flying about the real ramifications of the budget,its all about their ten euro been cut or their motor tax increasing,when deep down they know they don't have it as bad as they say.