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Child Item

Is the MAN UP campaign sexist?

otto_26

As there are thousands of men that are victims of domestic abuse every year I find it strange that an organisation that prides itself on looking after victims of abuse actually excludes a whole section of victims because of their gender.

Is this fair? Is it sexist? Are these old fashion ways of looking at domestic abuse?

Also is the slogan MAN UP not a sexist one?

Shouldn't Safe Ireland be reaching out to ALL victims of domestic abuse?

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super_furry

Zulu wrote: »

You seemed to have missed my first leading question. I'll post it again for you:

There isn't a single ad with a woman as the abuser, is there?

Or indeed a man as a victim. What about the members of the LGBT community that also suffer domestic abuse?

Leftist

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You trolling?

Bullies come in all shapes and sizes. Abuse comes in many forms.

yeah I know but we're talking about adults.

In voluntary relationships.

What is the woman going to do?

Ive had my share of manipulating women, but you have to stand up for yourself. Use your loaf.

If she strong arms you then you've got issues, but would you really admit it?

like I say, leave or turn it into a bit of fun. Get her to tie you up and sit on your fizzog. Jobs a good 'un.

Zulu

super_furry wrote: »

Or indeed a man as a victim. What about the members of the LGBT community that also suffer domestic abuse?

Well I was working of the premise that this was solely for female victims (which, I might add, I completely disagree with also).

I'm trying to establish that, either-way, the fact that all the abusers are men is bloody awful.

HeyThereDeliah

Leftist wrote: »

yeah I know but we're talking about adults.

In voluntary relationships.

What is the woman going to do?

Ive had my share of manipulating women, but you have to stand up for yourself. Use your loaf.

If she strong arms you then you've got issues, but would you really admit it?

like I say, leave or turn it into a bit of fun. Get her to tie you up and sit on your fizzog. Jobs a good 'un.

You have no idea what domestic abuse is. Have you ?
It's not a game for the victim be it male or female.

Micky Dolenz

The campaign is badly thought out and put together. It's not like it's going to make a man who is capable of hurting his kids or raping his wife, stop.

The money may have be better spent on targeting victims of abuse (male/female) to encourage them to come forward and assure them they will be protected. Victims of abuse from either gender.

The wording does not sit well with me either, "Man up" We live in a time where a lot of women and men have lost jobs and are under financial strain and pressure. No doubt they would love to "man up" given the chance.

Madam_X

Leftist wrote: »

in your opinion. But you haven't argued any point.

Dropping insults instead of addressing points is a roundabout way of admitting you are incapable of disproving it.

I don't see any insults, but the annoyance towards you was the result of what you said - that men being abused by women probably deserve it/should just stand up for themselves or turn it into s&m. And the dismissive water analogy. Comments which you made purely to provoke.

What if the woman has a knife?

There are men out there who have been ground down to shells by the women in their lives, emotionally and physically; their children have also been used to blackmail them, they have had false allegations made against them, and have been put through hell. I've spoken to such men, you clearly haven't. So give your spiteful trolling a rest for just this one occasion and have a bit of consideration for these men.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

How can you be sexist towards men???

cuckoo wrote: »

And the Irish Cancer Society do nothing for alzheimhers, the road safety crowd do nothing about animal cruelty and the fire brigade aren't checking the best before dates of the milk in my fridge.

What?

Micky Dolenz

Leftist wrote: »

yeah I know but we're talking about adults.

In voluntary relationships.

What is the woman going to do?

Ive had my share of manipulating women, but you have to stand up for yourself. Use your loaf.

If she strong arms you then you've got issues, but would you really admit it?

like I say, leave or turn it into a bit of fun. Get her to tie you up and sit on your fizzog. Jobs a good 'un.

Mod

So you are trolling. Don't post on this thread anymore please.

Zulu

Madam_X wrote: »

I've spoken to such men, you clearly haven't. So give your spiteful trolling a rest for just this one occasion and have a bit of consideration for these men.

Thank you Madam_X.

[Deleted User]

The problem I have with it is in many ways-

The company that runs it is called Safe Ireland. Not Safe Women. To me, calling it Safe Ireland gives the impression that it caters for everyone, not just specifically one gender at the hands of another gender.

As I said in the thread in the Gentleman's Club, calling it "Man Up" is a horrible thing as well. Yes, only "real men" don't abuse their partners, but it seems like it is telling any male that has suffered abuse at the hands of their partners (male or female) to "man up". Pretty horrible.

If it is geared towards specifically towards women who suffer abuse at the hands of men, then they're also canceling out helping women who suffer abuse at the hands of women.

Many people have already said it and I'm just going to echo their opinions; abuse within a relationship isn't specific to any gender. There should be an organization that handles it all, rather than focusing on a specific one.

jaykay74

If you are a women abused by another women you should try a different number I guess

"sorry, wrong number, you want 91.......2"

K-9

Abuse isn't a gender specific issue anymore (as if it ever was) and statistics back that up. I can't really see much point in these ads anymore as they reinforce stereotypes to me.

Paz-CCFC

cuckoo wrote: »

And the Irish Cancer Society do nothing for alzheimhers, the road safety crowd do nothing about animal cruelty and the fire brigade aren't checking the best before dates of the milk in my fridge.

Amen is the voluntary organisation that supports male victims of domestic violence btw.

http://www.amen.ie/

You're not comparing like for like. I haven't seen the Road Safety Authority for males only and the Road Safety Authority for females only or the Fire Brigade who only tend to accidents involving specifically males or females.

cuckoo

super_furry wrote: »

I'm afraid that's still a really poor analogy. The Cancer society aren't putting out radio adverts that basically claim Alzheimhers is the sole cause of domestic abuse.

These radio adverts may be targeted at just one issue, but it's a dangerous implication that they're making in portraying men as the sole cause of domestic violence and women and children as the sole sufferers.

The fact that they're condescending and talking to men, asking them not to do something that the vast, vast majority would never dream of doing is the icing on a particularly distasteful cake.

I agree that they may appear condescending and distasteful to men that could never even imagine themselves as abusers. I don't think that they are the audience that these ads are seeking to reach though.

ixoy wrote: »

But it's not really different aspects is it? Different aspects would be physical or psychological. The perpetrator, be they male or female, can still inflict the same terror and pain.
It's a disservice to those who are abused by women be they men or women.

The dynamics is each relationship are going to be different though - for the vast majority (not all i know) of abusive relationships where control of money is a factor the male partner is more likely to be earning more, or the female partner isn't working outside the home. And, the legal system is more likely to give custody of children to the mother, forcing an abused male partner to leave the family home.

The terror and pain will be similar, but there will be different needs. I do think there is a place for different organisations - I acknowledge the under reporting of domestic violence suffered by men and believe a specific organisation to raise awareness is needed. I don't think an umbrella organisation can meet everyone needs, it would still be assumed to be for female victims.

HeyThereDeliah

http://manupcampaign.org/

Is it part of this campaign ?

seamus

Leftist wrote: »

''any bloke who lets his missus batter him probably deserves it.''

wise words.

a man beating a woman is one thing, he's physically bigger, faster and stronger. It's disgusting and he should be castrated.

but what kind of man would let a woman beat him around the place? stand up for yourself for christ's sake. We should protect the most vulnerable but we can't cotton wool the entire world for people who really should be able to do the basics.

and if your bird knocks you about, then leave her. if she's sexy, just turn it into a dominatrix thing. That would actually be a good laugh.

But use a bit of sense.

What next if we go down this route? oh no I can't wash my hands, the water hurts me

Thank you for providing a textbook example of the appalling ignorance and 18th century attitudes that the "Man Up" campaign re-inforces.

I hope that one day when a close friend or a son of yours tells you about how he's completely head over heels in love with his wife, but she controls every aspect of his life, beats him with the handle of the broom when she gets drunk and constantly threatens to take away his kids and kick him out, that you have the presence of mind to surpress your natural troglodyte response of, "Just cop on and leave her, you whiney little bitch. She's only a girl".

Zulu

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

http://manupcampaign.org/

Is it part of this campaign ?

I dunno. I sent SafeIreland an email asking them yesterday & they haven't got back to me yet.

9959

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

it happens to both sexes. my wife reads all them womens magazines, you should see the sexism towards men in them.
articles and pages titled 'arent men daft' 'the silly things men do' and you rarely see a story where a woman has done wrong. they also have pics of men in the nude yet women go mad over page 3 and nuts magazine ect.....

Of course male victims of domestic violence are as deserving of support as female victims, but let's not confuse sexism with serious physical abuse.
A article titled 'Aren't Men Daft' is slightly different than being systematically beaten black and blue by a bullying tyrant with far superior physical strength.

I'm open to correction here, when I guess that the vast majority of the reported cases of serious domestic abuse are perpetrated by males against females.

If the stats are imbalanced because of men's reluctance to come forward, then I would encourage them to so do, but bear in mind that there must also be plenty of females who are also reluctant to come forward, for their own reasons.

The perceived adversarial nature of the campaign (and this thread) is unfortunate, yet somehow inevitable, perhaps the campaign could have been announced/conducted in a more 'gender neutral' way.

However, male on female violence is a sickening reality, and any awareness campaign, despite its flaws, which seeks to address this issue can not only benefit women in general, but society as a whole.

super_furry

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

Bobby42

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

http://manupcampaign.org/

Is it part of this campaign ?

Man Up is a global campaign to activate youth to stop violence against women and girls

It seems even boys aren't considered victims either!

hardCopy

Sara Yellow Patient wrote: »

How can you be sexist towards men???

What?

What?

super_furry

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

It's from 2010 and based on a UK report but concludes that "About two in five of all victims of domestic violence are men," and shows the huge disparity in funding and resources for male victims of domestic abuse.

Lyaiera

Bobby42 wrote: »

It seems even boys aren't considered victims either!

Of course it's sexist, anything that says

"Man Up is a global campaign to activate youth to stop violence against women and girls because they're the only people who get abused and men and boys certainly don't get abused"

is sexist.

eviltwin

9959 wrote: »

Of course male victims of domestic violence are as deserving of support as female victims, but let's not confuse sexism with serious physical abuse.
A article titled 'Aren't Men Daft' is slightly different than being systematically beaten black and blue by a bullying tyrant with far superior physical strength.

I'm open to correction here, when I guess that the vast majority of the reported cases of serious domestic abuse are perpetrated by males against females.

If the stats are imbalanced because of men's reluctance to come forward, then I would encourage them to so do, but bear in mind that there must also be plenty of females who are also reluctant to come forward, for their own reasons.

The perceived adversarial nature of the campaign (and this thread) is unfortunate, yet somehow inevitable, perhaps the campaign could have been announced/conducted in a more 'gender neutral' way.

However, male on female violence is a sickening reality, and any awareness campaign, despite its flaws, which seeks to address this issue can not only benefit women in general, but society as a whole.

Totally agree with everything you say.

I agree with everyone that female on male DV is a huge problem, much bigger than any of us probably even know. AMEN are doing their bit but they are fairly new, only based on the East Coast and need time, awareness not to mention money to get the message across.

Most of the organisations for women have been on the go for 30+ years. They started at a time when it was acceptable for men to hit their wives, I can still remember a time when rape within a marriage was legal. But with time and campagins and slow but steady work they have helped to change the mindset. But it took time, changing attitudes is tedious work.

I work in the area and I know that AMEN have refused help from more established groups because they say the dynamic is different when a man is a victim, that's their choice to distance themselves, its not that they are being excluded on the basis of "oh you deal with male victims so get lost".

What I do know is that AMEN would benefit hugely from volunteering and donations, maybe some of you might think about offering your time?

tigger123

cuckoo wrote: »

from http://www.safeireland.ie/manup/ :

This is an organisation running a specific, targeted campaign. My cancer society/alzheimhers analogy may have been a bit too subtle - different organisations focus on different areas of social change. There is no one group trying to fix everything.

Each year when this annual campaign about domestic violence against women and children is run in November boards is full of these threads. Every single year.

If you feel strongly that domestic violence against men isn't been given enough attention, get involved with Amen. Contact the media. Write to your TD.

To reuse my earlier analogy, don't diss the cancer society because you think the alzheimher society aren't doing enough.

Well said cuckoo. If those people posting here don't feel enough is being done for men in abusive relationships I'd urge them to get involved in Amen, it is a very serious issue. But that's not too say this campaign doesn't also have merit.

Its an interesting approach, I think the idea is to challenge the rationalisations of people who abuse their partners.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

hardCopy wrote: »

What?

Hmm??? What's up?

hardCopy

Sara Yellow Patient wrote: »

Hmm??? What's up?

I'm trying to understand this bit:

Sara Yellow Patient wrote: »

How can you be sexist towards men???

Being sexist against men is pretty easy, you just discriminate against them on the basis of their gender.

It's like being sexist against women, but with men.

seamus

tigger123 wrote: »

Its an interesting approach, I think the idea is to challenge the rationalisations of men who abuse their female partners & children.

FYP.

That's the issue. Domestic abuse/domestic violence is a singular issue. It doesn't matter the genders involved and who's the perp and who's the victim. Domestic violence against men is not a separate issue and so should not be treated as such.

An advertising campaign directed only at men downplays the level of abuse perpetrated by women, implicitly ignoring that it happens at all.

What's worse is that SafeIreland claim to be advocates for the safety of women and children, yet all of their advertisements feature men. Where are the ads with a mother describing how she just sometimes needs some space and so locks the kids in their rooms for the night while she goes out and gets bladdered?

The advertising campaign implies that only men perpetrate domestic violence, and only women and children are the victims.

granturismo

seamus wrote: »

The advertising campaign implies that only men perpetrate domestic violence, and only women and children are the victims.

It's similar to the slogan from the 80s/90s - All men are potential rapists.

hatrickpatrick

Of course it is. Men come under attack from a different form of domestic abuse on a daily basis, and "society" doesn't give a f*ck.

You know that "Overly attached girlfriend" meme? Everyone thinks it's hilarious, right? Reverse the genders and people would (rightly) think the guy is an abusive and possessive douche.

Abuse doesn't have to be physical. Abusive women are the masters not of black eyes and bruises, but blackmail, manipulation, and social threats. The fact that this is not acknowledged in the mainstream sickens me. Next time they run an ad showing a girl being yelled at by her boyfriend for texting another guy, I want to see an ad showing a guy with 100 missed calls demanding to know where he is.

One of the most enraging comments I ever saw was when someone suggested that the meme trivialises partner abuse. The comment, literally said, "Nah, it would only be abuse if it was a guy". :mad: