donalg1 wrote: » Only problem being that they won't care who does or doesn't pay they still get their ridiculous salaries allowances and other perks and even if they lose the next election their pensions will see them sorted for life. They will just cut the funding for services or a capital project so they don't have to take a hit themselves.
Maggie 2 wrote: » Give it a rest, Guys. The vast majority of the citizens of this country showed that they support the measures being taken to keep Ireland afloat, by ignoring this march today. Some of those that did turn up even booed the organisers! Nothing will make them happy, so let them wallow in their misery. Good Night, all.
tayto lover wrote: » Good night Mrs Kenny.
bgrizzley wrote: » you are sooooo close to being on the right side of this argument Donal...:P
the groutch wrote: » surprised this hasnt been mentionedhttp://www.independent.ie/national-news/property-tax-holiday-to-boost-house-market-3304487.html sounds like a chance for those who can afford it to "play musical chairs" with their houses and avoid the property tax completely.
donalg1 wrote: » As far as I am concerned there isn't necessarily a right or wrong side. People do or dont pay based on their own situations and whatever their reasons for paying or not they will deem themselves to be right. So one can only make up their own minds on this one and whatever they decide to do well more power to them. That's why I never tell anyone that they should or shoyldnt pay.
donalg1 wrote: » Two or three years ago now
donalg1 wrote: » Maybe they share the same opinion as me and a couple of others here that protesting won't get anywhere and will just fall on deaf ears.
lugha wrote: » And there does not appear to be an alternative, or not one that we can bring to bear. It is blindingly obvious from the Troika’s dealings, with Greece in particular, that they were ready to pull the funding lifeline if they did not implement the reforms they demanded. It is simply delusional to think that they would be any different with us. Greece has continually failed over the last two years to meet the reforms demanded of them and they have had their debt written down on 2 occasions. Paddy Irishman has handed over every single cent demanded of him, from debts of private institutions which were transferred to the sovereign and has not got a single break from the troika. Keep grabbing your ankles Paddy you gobsh!te
lugha wrote: » It’s not that it will fall on deaf ears, it is that opposing austerity have no alternatives. Whether you are plotting your way out of a national crisis or cleaning your floor with a nail brush there is ultimately little point is complaining about how bad your plan is if there is either no alternative, or a much worse alternative. And there does not appear to be an alternative, or not one that we can bring to bear. It is blindingly obvious from the Troika’s dealings, with Greece in particular, that they were ready to pull the funding lifeline if they did not implement the reforms they demanded. It is simply delusional to think that they would be any different with us. As to the march today, it was interesting to note that 3 out of the 4 protestors interviewed by RTE were protesting against (different) cuts and not the HHC (and the 4th one didn’t mention it either). So it really was an all-comers whinge fest. And 10,000 people (or even 20,000 if you believe the propaganda of those involved) on a rain-free Saturday close to Xmas (when shoppers would likely be flooding Dublin) was hardly a spectacular. There were far more people at the rugby match about a mile away! I wonder if any of the media, international in particular, will draw that comparison?But of course, if you have no alternative plan, it wouldn't matter if there was 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000. They may as well protest about the weather.
lugha wrote: » It’s not that it will fall on deaf ears, it is that opposing austerity have no alternatives. Whether you are plotting your way out of a national crisis or cleaning your floor with a nail brush there is ultimately little point is complaining about how bad your plan is if there is either no alternative, or a much worse alternative. And there does not appear to be an alternative, or not one that we can bring to bear. It is blindingly obvious from the Troika’s dealings, with Greece in particular, that they were ready to pull the funding lifeline if they did not implement the reforms they demanded. It is simply delusional to think that they would be any different with us. As to the march today, it was interesting to note that 3 out of the 4 protestors interviewed by RTE were protesting against (different) cuts and not the HHC (and the 4th one didn’t mention it either). So it really was an all-comers whinge fest. And 10,000 people (or even 20,000 if you believe the propaganda of those involved) on a rain-free Saturday close to Xmas (when shoppers would likely be flooding Dublin) was hardly a spectacular. There were far more people at the rugby match about a mile away! I wonder if any of the media, international in particular, will draw that comparison? But of course, if you have no alternative plan, it wouldn't matter if there was 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000. They may as well protest about the weather.
lugha wrote: » Go on Gerry, you have an ‘aul go at answering the question. The rest of the lads have come up with squat so far. Our lenders give us they money they do on the condition that we implement austere measures. If we decide (even if we are right) to renege on these conditions, we need to find a new lender. Who is that going to be?
Ghandee wrote: » Had to snap this placard.:D
cosbloodymick wrote: » Greece has continually failed over the last two years to meet the reforms demanded of them and they have had their debt written down on 2 occasions.
bgrizzley wrote: » Withhold your HHC and dont pay the Property tax, thats the only way they will listen to the people they work for.
gerryo777 wrote: » There's been plenty of other plans and ideas put up here in about 25,000 posts on this subject.
Le_Dieux wrote: » WHY such emphasis on 13.5 billion? It seems to bother You, YOU give an answer if you can. For me, maybe it's time to call Merkel's bluff, and start bandying the word 'DEFAULT' around, and see how She reacts then?
lugha wrote: » I am taking about the broader question of austerity and how it can be avoided. Didn’t you already concede that there wasn’t an alternative to austerity? Didn’t you say you could take everything that might be thrown at you, fine man that you are?
lugha wrote: » Though your suggestion that the EU or anyone, would happily give us billions every year so we can continue to live beyond our means was amusing. But I was hoping for a serious suggestion
Ghandee wrote: » I'd agree paying more taxes if it promoted growth and created jobs in our domestic economy, that isn't happening though. The only jobs the hhc or property tax will create are jobs for the ps/cs already in the sector. I note the 'propagandist' remark made my Lugha's law here again, bold claim for a lad consistently trying to inflate our deficit from 13 billion to 20 billion. I'm tired now, and can't be bothered going through his posts, but I'm sure he's made the '20 billion' remark on roughly 50 times now. :cool:
bgrizzley wrote: » doesnt really answer my question, when have the governemnt ever listened to an alternative suggestion?
bgrizzley wrote: » And i still have no problem with austerity...;)
Ghandee wrote: » I note the 'propagandist' remark made my Lugha's law here again, bold claim for a lad consistently trying to inflate our deficit from 13 billion to 20 billion. I'm tired now, and can't be bothered going through his posts, but I'm sure he's made the '20 billion' remark on roughly 50 times now. :cool:
lugha wrote: » We're following the lead of the 600K anti-HHC gang and protesting by sitting at home doing nothing. :pac:
gerryo777 wrote: » That's what is happening now. The longer austerity continues, the longer we will be living beyond our means. No growth or further contraction of the domestic economy = an ongoing deficit.
Vizzy wrote: » Any sign of Le Dieux ? The "no side" must be extremely dissapointed with such a low turnout. Even if you take the 30,000 figure as official,then that equates to only about 5% of the reputed 600,000 households that haven't paid. Plus the 5% also includes people who turned up today to protest against Austerity,water charges etc.
