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Lolek Ltd, Trading as 'The Iona Institute'

lazygal

Does anyone know anything about this organisation? Where it is funded from and by whom? Who runs it? Why it gets such a platform? I've been digging around a bit but its very difficult to find out anything about it.

I'm also mystified as to why David Quinn appears so often representing a relatively new body which seems to be largly self-appointed and why he is allowed such a platform.

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oceanclub

I mailed Revenue and here's the letter I received; not too happy with it, it essentially says "none of your business, but _we'll_ er make sure Iona is doing charity stuff":

For reasons of taxpayer confidentiality, the Revenue Commissioners cannot comment upon the tax affairs of individual bodies.

The role of the Revenue Commissioners in relation to charities is confined to determining the eligibility of applications from bodies of persons or trusts for exemption under the provisions of Section 207 Taxes Consolidation Act 1997. For tax purposes, a charity is a body of persons or a trust, which is established for charitable purposes only. Its objects and powers must be so framed that every object to which its income or property can be applied is charitable. It must be bound, as to its main object(s) and the application of its income or property, by a binding trust. This means that it must be obliged by law to advance only its stated main object(s) and to apply its income and property to these exclusively.

Revenue operates controls and monitoring procedures to ensure that charities with the tax exemption comply with the terms of the exemption. Bodies, which are granted charitable tax exemption, are subject to periodic risk focussed reviews aimed at ensuring that the body is meeting its charitable objectives and complying with the conditions of the exemption. All relevant matters are taken into consideration in the context of such reviews and each case is examined on its individual merits and circumstances.

I trust this clarifies the position.

Peregrinus

recedite wrote: »

Revenue don't actually define what "a charity" is in that document. They just say the body should use its money for charitable purposes.

In other words, its not clear whether there is a "public good" requirement involved, or not.

There is. “Charitable purpose” is defined in the Charities Act 2009. There’s two parts to the definition:

First, to be charitable a purpose must be
- the prevention or relief of poverty or economic hardship
- the advancement of education
- the advancement of religion
- “any other purpose that is of benefit to the community”.

The last category is a bit of a catchall; it can include, e.g., animal welfare, care of the elderly or disabled (who may not be poor, and so don’t come in under the first head), cultural activities and the arts, community development, medical charities, etc.

Secondly, the purpose must be “of public benefit”. (This is what prevents, e.g., a trust established by me to pay my own daughter’s school fees from being charitable. It’s for the advancement of education, all right, but my daughter is not “the public”. Whereas a trust to provide scholarships for children from (say) Leitrim, or for the children of soldiers and sailors, would be charitable).

Simply having a charitable purpose, though, is not enough to qualify you for charitable tax reliefs. Before the revenue will approve you, there’s a further layer of tests applied. You must be legally established in Ireland, and have your central managements and control here. Your constitutional documents must require all your income and assets to be used for charitable purposes - i.e. it’s not enough that your activities include charitable purposes; they must be exclusively charitable. You must be non-profit - paying no dividends or the like to shareholders or investors, and on winding up transferring any remaining assets you have to another charity, not to the founders/investors/shareholders.

mambo wrote: »

But charity status also means donations (say from a few wealthy Opus Dei-type backers) qualify for tax relief.

Not quite. Recedite has it in post #45. If you contribute to an eligible charity you get no relief or refund, but the charity can reclaim from the Revenue the income tax that you paid on your donation.

(The usual allegation, or at least suspicion, in relation to the Iona Institute is that they are funded by US-based socially conservative groups. To the extent that this is true, charitable status in Ireland would be of limited use. You can’t reclaim tax on donations from donors who don’t themselves pay tax in Ireland.)

lazygal wrote: »

Is Youth Defence classed as a charity?

They’re not on the Revenue list. I don’t know if they have ever applied for charitable status.

fisgon wrote: »

The idea that the Iona Institute is a registered charity is stomach-churning. They are a propaganda group, with a very clear theocratic agenda.

If they are a charity, Atheist Ireland should apply for charitable status.

Atheist Ireland aren’t on the Revenue list of eligible charities. That may simply be because they haven’t applied, and that could easily be because they already have a minimal or no tax liability, and Revenue approval would be of no advantage, or of so little advantage that it’s not worth seeking it.

FWIW, the Humanist Association of Ireland is on the list.

Banbh wrote: »

I've heard that the Revenue have applied the USC to priests, although they are usually exempt from income tax. Does anyone know the regulation in this area?

Priests are not exempt from income tax.

Priests who are employed (e.g. as teachers, social workers, etc) pay PRSI (including levies and charges) like other employees (and their employers pay employer PRSI, even if they are charities). They qualify for the same social insurance benefits as other employees. Diocesan clergy are not employees; they pay PRSI (inc. levies/charges) as self-employed, and qualify for the same social insurance benefits as the rest of the self employed. There is a special PRSI contribution rate for Anglican clergymen, which I think reflects the fact that the Church of Ireland has lifetime housing arrangements for them, and so there are certain housing benefits for which they do not qualify. Or something like that.

recedite

There's a bit of understandable confusion here in relation to taxation and charities. I'm no expert, but I'll give my take on it anyway...feel free to correct me.

1. Revenue would not expect to gain anything at all by taxing the non existent profits of a non-profit organisation.

2. If a non-profit organisation gains charitable status, any donations they receive are not tax deductible. Therefore the donation is effectively bumped-up by an amount equal to the donors normal tax rate, at a cost to Revenue.

People may be familiar with this concept of using gross income instead of net income to pay for something. It happens all the time with school donations and mortgage interest relief.

Banbh

I've heard that the Revenue have applied the USC to priests, although they are usually exempt from income tax. Does anyone know the regulation in this area?

PopePalpatine

I have to say, I feel my stomach churn when I see Breda O'Brien's face in the Irish Times on Saturday. There's something sinister about her articles. I know some may see this as a crappy analogy, but to me a woman backing the Iona Institute is like a black person backing the BNP.

fisgon

The idea that the Iona Institute is a registered charity is stomach-churning. They are a propaganda group, with a very clear theocratic agenda.

If they are a charity, Atheist Ireland should apply for charitable status. And if they are refused, the law on qualifying for charitable status should be added to the list of things that need to be changed for a secular Ireland. The key thing here is the assumption that promoting religion is "of benefit to society", which of course is patent nonsense.

recedite

Peregrinus wrote: »

(2) If the Iona Institute were liable to Corporation Tax, I seriously doubt that their liablity would be very big. I don't see them generating large profits, to be honest. So if the government authorities were to try to maximise revenue, chasing the charitable status of the Iona Institute through the courts would not necessarily be a good move, in cost/benefit terms.

But surely they would have less money to spend on campaigns and lobbying, if they had to pay tax on their income?

recedite

mambo wrote: »

Details of how a body can claim to be a charity
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/chy2.pdf

applies its income for charitable purposes only

Revenue don't actually define what "a charity" is in that document. They just say the body should use its money for charitable purposes.

In other words, its not clear whether there is a "public good" requirement involved, or not.

Kiwi in IE

Seems an unpleasant character that David Quinn. I had a letter published in the Independent a couple of months back, in response to his claims that my son is a 'disadvantaged child' because he has 'cohabiting' parents. It took a lot of editing before I had it civil enough to be printed. I suggested something along the lines of his opinions being more suited to conservative Catholic media, rather than a major daily newspaper in a First World country in the Twenty First century.

I think he would quite like to see all children of 'cohabiting' couples adopted out to good, married Catholic families and the mothers sent straight to the Magdeline Laundries. My partner might escape though seeing as the father in a 'cohabiting' relationship is not legally considered a parent.

lazygal

Is Youth Defence classed as a charity?

mambo

Peregrinus wrote: »

(1) It's not Finance, it's the Revenue Commissioners. And, whatever else we can say about the Revenue Commissioners, they are actually pretty good at interpreting and applying the legislation as written, rather than distorting it through a policy of revenue maximisation.

(2) If the Iona Institute were liable to Corporation Tax, I seriously doubt that their liablity would be very big. I don't see them generating large profits, to be honest. So if the government authorities were to try to maximise revenue, chasing the charitable status of the Iona Institute through the courts would not necessarily be a good move, in cost/benefit terms.

But charity status also means donations (say from a few wealthy Opus Dei-type backers) qualify for tax relief.

ShooterSF

I doubt anyone here is looking to have their charitable status removed to save the economy. It should be removed because they aren't a charity from what I've observed. There are plenty of religious charities in this country St. V de P etc. and while I won't donate to them personally I agree they should have charity status because they do charity work. IONA doesn't.

Peregrinus

(1) It's not Finance, it's the Revenue Commissioners. And, whatever else we can say about the Revenue Commissioners, they are actually pretty good at interpreting and applying the legislation as written, rather than distorting it through a policy of revenue maximisation.

(2) If the Iona Institute were liable to Corporation Tax, I seriously doubt that their liablity would be very big. I don't see them generating large profits, to be honest. So if the government authorities were to try to maximise revenue, chasing the charitable status of the Iona Institute through the courts would not necessarily be a good move, in cost/benefit terms.

Galvasean

I would imagine the Department of Finance are probably getting more anf more strict about what is and is not a charity in the search for more tax moneys. I'd guess a lot of charities that recieved 'charity status' te years ago would not have gotten it if hey applied today.

mambo

Details of how a body can claim to be a charity
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/chy2.pdf

A charity:

applies its income for charitable purposes only, and

Does a lobby group / "think tank" count as "charitable purposes only". I don't see how. May be worth a letter to Revenue & Dept of Finance. Would be interesting to get their list of what does and what doesn't count as "charitable purposes".

Peregrinus

MrPudding wrote: »

On my phone at the moment, so can't provided links, but there is some interesting goings on in the UK about this right now.

Some religious group has been refused charitable status by the charity commission. I haven't looked at this is detail but I think it goes something like this: to gain charitable status in the UK you need to show a public benefit that your charity provides. Previously this was assumed for a religious group. In this case it has not been assumed and the commissioners can't see the public benefit of this particular group, so no charitable status.

MrP

The religious group concerned is the Exclusive Brethren who - as the name suggests - keep themselves to themselves, withdrawing so far as they can into self-contained and self-sufficient communities, and avoiding contamination by the world. They don’t have a problem doing routine business with outsiders but they don’t, for example, eat and drink with them. Their services are not open to non-members. If you transgress the rules of the community you may be “disfellowshipped”, in which case other Exclusive Brethren - including your family - are expected not to associate with you. You get the picture.

A while back, an EB-linked entity known as the “Preston Down Trust” applied for charitable status, and was refused. The Trust, as far as I can make out from newspaper reports, is analogous to a parish in other denominations; it owns a gospel hall in which regular Exclusive Brethren services are held. It seems they were refused on the basis that all their activities were open to members only, so the activities of the Trust couldn’t be said to confer any “public benefit”. The Trust has appealed the Charity Commissioners’ initial decision, and the hearing of that appeal is awaited.

This isn’t a completely novel position in England. Way back in 1949 the Court of Appeal held that a bequest to an convent of Carmelite nuns was not charitable because the convent was strictly enclosed, and the nuns made rather a point of not engaging with the public.

I don’t know if there is any Irish precedent on this, but the legal background is subtly different. In the UK, a purpose is charitable if it is

- (a) “for the advancement of religion” [or for a wide variety of other purposes - relief of poverty, advancement of education, advancement of arts, promotion of efficiency of the armed services(!), etc, etc] and

- (b) it is “for the public benefit”.

I.e. these are two separate requirements. They are separate requirements in Ireland too, except that there is a presumption (in s. 3(4) of the Charities Act 2009) that the advancement of religion is of public benefit “unless the contrary is proved”. So, if this matter ever comes before an Irish court, it will be up to those denying charitable status (almost certainly, the Revenue Commissioners, a Local Authority or the Charities Regulatory Authority) to establish that the religious purpose of the body concerned is not for public benefit.

FWIW, I couldn't see this causing a problem for the Iona Institute. Far from "withdrawing from the world", they engage actively with it, seeking to inform public debate and influence public opinion - which, if you're a republican, is very much for the public benefit. They're about as far from the Exclusive Brethren as you could hope to get.

MrPudding

Galvasean wrote: »

Most religious organisations benefit from 'charity' status in this country for some daft reason.

On my phone at the moment, so can't provided links, but there is some interesting goings on in the UK about this right now.

Some religious group has been refused charitable status by the charity commission. I haven't looked at this is detail but I think it goes something like this: to gain charitable status in the UK you need to show a public benefit that your charity provides. Previously this was assumed for a religious group. In this case it has not been assumed and the commissioners can't see the public benefit of this particular group, so no charitable status.

MrP

Peregrinus

Skrynesaver wrote: »

Looking up Lolek in the CRO indicates that they are head-quartered in 23 Merrion Sq. which appears to be the office of St. Joseph's young Priest Society, (I vaguely remember collections for this org. when I was a young fella, they nominally assist young lads who think they have a vocation in going to Maynooth and Rome for mind setting.) . . .

23 Merrion Square is also the address of the Iona Institute itself, so I don't think we need to assume a link between Lolek and the St. Joseph Young Priests Society to account for Lolek's presence on the premises.

Peregrinus

mambo wrote: »

The link to the CRO entry is unstable, so to find it just go to
http://www.cro.ie/search/CompanySearch.aspx
and enter company number 424940 in the "Number" field.

If someone purchases the accounts, is there any law to prevent them being published in full on the interweb?

No, publish and be damned. But I doubt that the accounts will do much to answer the questions raised in this thread.

Nodin

Jernal wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance and profanity here but what the sweet actual f*ck do they do that could be construed as charitable?

...they may plan on a mass cliff jump at some stage.

Galvasean

Jernal wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance and profanity here but what the sweet actual f*ck do they do that could be construed as charitable?

Most religious organisations benefit from 'charity' status in this country for some daft reason.

Turtwig

Sharrow wrote: »

They are also a registered charity and don't pay tax.

Pardon my ignorance and profanity here but what the sweet actual f*ck do they do that could be construed as charitable?

Morag

They are also a registered charity and don't pay tax.

mambo

The link to the CRO entry is unstable, so to find it just go to
http://www.cro.ie/search/CompanySearch.aspx
and enter company number 424940 in the "Number" field.

If someone purchases the accounts, is there any law to prevent them being published in full on the interweb?

Skrynesaver

According to their internet whois entry they are a front for a company by the name of Lolek Ltd , which is a Polish diminutive for Karol (JPII to you and I). Their administrative contact is one Patrick Kenny.

Looking up Lolek in the CRO indicates that they are head-quartered in 23 Merrion Sq. which appears to be the office of St. Joseph's young Priest Society, (I vaguely remember collections for this org. when I was a young fella, they nominally assist young lads who think they have a vocation in going to Maynooth and Rome for mind setting.) The CRO entry lists 23 submissions including accounts that are available for purchase if anyone feels like following up on this (if you do I'd be fascinated to hear the results)

Lolek Ltd itself seems to be based registered in a Solicitors office opposite the Pepper Canister on mount St. Crescent

Peregrinus

mambo wrote: »

Anyone ever bothered to check out Iona's accounts
http://www.cro.ie/search/ListSubDocs.aspx?id=424940&type=C
Would they have details of where funding comes from?

It's unlikely that they'd identify donors, if that's what your interested in, any more than a commercial company's accounts would identify the customers from whom they get their revenue. The purpose of requiring accounts to be filed under the Companies Acts is so that people can assess the solvency of the company, if they wish. For this purpose you need to know the amount of donations, subscriptions, sales or whatever, but not the identity of the individuals or entities from whom they are sourced.

Sarky

After the fun I had following #RomneyDeathRally I've decided to try and make #IonaDeathInstitute a thing.

mambo

lazygal wrote: »

Does anyone know anything about this organisation? Where it is funded from and by whom? Who runs it? Why it gets such a platform? I've been digging around a bit but its very difficult to find out anything about it.

I'm also mystified as to why David Quinn appears so often representing a relatively new body which seems to be largly self-appointed and why he is allowed such a platform.

Anyone ever bothered to check out Iona's accounts
http://www.cro.ie/search/ListSubDocs.aspx?id=424940&type=C
Would they have details of where funding comes from?

Ellis Dee

Like the poor, I'm afraid some religious nutbars will always be with us. And inevitably, some of them will be relatively well educated and even successful in various fields of endeavour. That demonstrates the power of networking, but also makes one wonder why they don't cop themselves on and recognise that few people want to go back to the kind of society we had in Ireland in the fairly recent past. It was based on the same kind of power they seek, an atmosphere in which our elected representatives danced to the tune of the unelected dictator McQuaid. It is gone, and as long we remain vigilant against them and their schemes, it will never come back.

This is an example of the distorted "facts" they like to present:

And he seems ignorant of the fact that divorce is legal:

Their wet dream:

lazygal

PATRONS ~

Professor Patricia Casey: Patricia Casey is a senior consultant psychiatrist at the Mater Hospital in Dublin, as well as a lecturer at University College, Dublin.

Breda O'Brien: Breda O'Brien is a teacher and a columnist with The Irish Times. She is best known for her commentary on religious and social affairs.

Fergus O'Donoghue SJ: Fr O'Donoghue is a Jesuit. He is the Editor of Studies, a quarterly journals dealing with matters of religion and culture. Prior to becoming Editor of Studies, he was a lecturer in Church history at Milltown Institute.

Dr James Sheehan: James Sheehan is founder of the Blackrock, Galway Clinics and Hermitage Clinics, private medical facilities which operate according to a Catholic ethos.

Vincent Twomey: Fr Twomey is a member of the Divine Word Missionaries. He was professor of moral theology at St Patrick's College, Maynooth, until 2006. He is one of Ireland's foremost experts in Catholic moral theology.
List of patrons.

Interesting to see our old friend Vincent Twomey listed, given his connection to Hibernia College.