Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » If it were a tax on homes, then people in rented accommodation and local authority housing would be liable as well.
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » I think its quite legitimate that people can oppose a tax for different reasons. In my opinion, the issue of landlords "passing it on" is a bit of a red herring. You could equally argue that if income tax were increased, landlords would also pass this on to their tenants. What the system does do is allow the market to dictate things. The landlords who attempt to pass on too much will be penalised in favour of those who don't.
tayto lover wrote: » So the fairest thing would be to call it a "Service Charge" and include the services of bin collection, sewage, water and street cleaning and charge an appropriate fee i.e. 650 euro per annum. Nobody would have any complaints then and there would be no anti movement. Win / win situation.
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » One of the problems of folding things like waste and water into a home tax like the one Gerry proposes is that we're committed to the Polluter Pays Principle in terms of environmentally sensitive services. So, for example, if you put people's bin charges into one flat annual fee, they have no incentive in terms of the amount and type of domestic waste they generate.
tayto lover wrote: » Very easy to fix that. Have weighing scales on the bin lorry with a chip on the bin and give a refund as an incentive. Or charge a bit extra if bin is above set weight. Same with drains. Have a small call-out charge. Water -- We are told we will have a set allowance and have to pay for over-use. Simple to organise really and makes a lot of sense. Cuts out the squabbling too.
gerryo777 wrote: » But tayto, if we had a simple, transparent & fair system, the junta wouldn't be able to pitch one section of society against the other. It's all a game.
tayto lover wrote: » The Govt just rushed into this without putting any thinking into it. As a result 600k plus home owners didn't pay and thus the trouble with marches etc. Why do they always have to rush into things and think that because other countries have a Property Tax we have to have one. They didn't bother to look at the other things other countries have like free GP's, school buses etc. It's all duck and no dinner.
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » They probably should have gotten an expert group together to look at the big picture, the entire taxation system, and give full consideration to a property tax as part of that.
gerryo777 wrote: » Vlad, that is the most sensible post I've seen from a pro property tax man like yourself in a long time.
We consider that stability is an important attribute of a tax system. This implies that the tax system should be designed with a view to eliminating as far as possible volatility of tax receipts. A consideration in achieving a stable tax base is to tax those factors that cannot avoid the charge to tax. The most obvious example of this is immovable property. We consider that the taxation of property is one area of Ireland’s tax system that is particularly in need of reform. Introducing an annual tax on residential property represents an important step towards providing a stable and non-volatile tax base.
We recommend that there should be a new configuration of taxation of property in Ireland, including an annual property tax that provides recurrent and sustainable revenue for the Exchequer and, in due course, for local government financing.
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » Let's see what they said...
gerryo777 wrote: » ..and I can guarantee you that the only bit they'll try to implement is a tax on peoples homes...
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » You should probably read it before you start speculating.
gerryo777 wrote: » There's probably not much point really, it's Ireland and it's another report, one of thousands. The government's mates sitting on land banks won't be touched. Everyone can see the path this shower have taken, screw the middle classes to protect the 'top' and the 'bottom'. I don't need any reports to show me that.
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » I have to admire the speed of U turn there. Within the space of a few posts you've gone saying that a review by an expert group is a "sensible" idea, to saying its "sh1te", "another quango", "probably cost a fortune".
Ghandee wrote: » Out of all the political parties manifesto's pre election, only labour had any mention of a property tax, (we all know how fg felt pre election) There was one difference with labours idea though, it was a site valued tax, meaning...... You got it! Developers sitting on land banks would have been hit. Now, we're told the troika insisted on a property tax, so, FG (hands tied and all that:rolleyes:) then went on to introduce one (despite it not being in the manifesto), but rather than go with labours suite valued one, which would being in many millions more in revenue as it would catch property owners, and wealthy developers, sitting on land that would be worth millions, someone, somewhere decided that that the tax would apply to family homes only. hey, (troika) then were later seen to come out and tell us that they actually didn't mind where the money came from, a property tax could be abolished if another suitable revenue raising exercise could be brought to the table. It might look like, (to the untrained eye obviously) that someone, somewhere, was looking out for their buddies. But sure that wouldn't happen in Ireland, and especially not within the FG party.
Ghandee wrote: » It might look like, (to the untrained eye obviously) that someone, somewhere, was looking out for their buddies.
gerryo777 wrote: » Yea, you can probably guess that I wouldn't trust this government, or any of the cronies it hires to tell them what they want to hear.
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » I know. It smacks of a conspiracy. I mean, it's not like the independent report we commissioned on taxation said that the introduction of a property tax was one of the most urgent reforms needed in the Irish taxation system. Except it wasn't this government that commissioned the report.
bgrizzley wrote: » Well, if it doesnt make much difference its just an excerise in futility. And its been said by the pro side here that all these tiny protest marches are laughable and dont amount to anything. whats wrong with amalgamating them? its the Govs own fault for not listening to the people.its about fcuking time everyone stood together...
gerryo777 wrote: » This report is at least 3 years old, even more irrelevant now considering the economy has completely collapsed since then
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » We went into recession in 2008, when the commission was established. It was tasked with outlining how our tax system should be structured for the next 10 to 15 years.
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » I know. It smacks of a conspiracy. I mean, it's not like the independent report we commissioned on taxation said that the introduction of a property tax was one of the most urgent reforms needed in the Irish taxation system.
