jimmycrackcorm wrote: » Ironic as I think we should be protesting outside Siptu's offices about the CPA.
SafeSurfer wrote: » The Anglo promissory notes will cost us €3 billion a year for 15 years.
The first €3.1bn promissory note payment was made to the banks on Mar 31 2011, and Ireland is scheduled to make further €3.1bn repayments on Mar 31 every year for the next 12 years. Lower repayments kick in from 2024 until the notes are finally repaid in 2031. Every year the interest charges are added to the Irish deficit — forcing the Government to either raise taxes or cut expenditure to meet its EU/IMF deficit targets. The total amount of payments on the notes will add up to €48bn by 2031, which is €12bn more than the original principal of €31bn. While there has been a lot of talk about "burning" the unsecured, un-guaranteed, bondholders, the truth is the amount that this category is owed amounts to about €1bn.
SafeSurfer wrote: » By complaining about the money spent on the bank bailout maybe it will stop the madness of continuing to spend €3 billion a year on the Anglo notes.
SafeSurfer wrote: » "Whats the point of complaining"? - I really don't understand this argument. For example, whats the point in complaining that the government acted unconstitutionally in the referendum? Its to prevent them from doing it again.
SafeSurfer wrote: » What nonsense. The very act of protesting is so politicians come up with an alternative.
SafeSurfer wrote: » Are you for real? By your rational you assume that governments and civil servants cannot get it wrong.
SafeSurfer wrote: » When you say it would be good for "people" to experience real hardship do you include yourself or just lesser "people"?
wicorthered wrote: » Well aren't all these cut backs over there meant to get the economy back on track? It seems like every time they announce a raft of cuts, their economy sinks further!
wicorthered wrote: » You seem to be of the opinion that what happen in the banks has happened, we should forget it, and move on. Yet Ireland and Greece should be made to continue to suffer for previous bad management?!
burgermasters wrote: » That's the problem with the Irish we just don't rebel any more. I think the people should force the government out and vote for a new one first time to say this but give sinn fein a shot they have a take no bull kind of attitude tbh might be what we need for dealing with Europe
Monty Burnz wrote: » We should never forget it - but remember that the owners of the banks have been completely wiped out. They lost all their money. What more do you want?
Kiith wrote: » It's the budget Ireland deserves, but not the one it needs right now :pac:
Shenshen wrote: » Let me just summarise your last few posts there: You protest without offering any alternative suggestions based on the assumption that the government should come up with said alternative with the help of their civil servants, who you apparently assume got it wrong in the first place?
wicorthered wrote: » Are a significant number of bankers still on massive salaries?!
Monty Burnz wrote: » Rebel against what, our own government? Burn down our own towns and businesses? We are going to rebel our way back to wealth? Brilliant. Any more suggestions?
KyussBishop wrote: » As I've been saying in a couple of threads, we handed sovereign control over our currency to the EU, when we joined the Euro, and it is exactly that which is preventing us from getting out of this mess now. Austerity and debating only over which part of the budget to burn, is not the only choice, and it is directly damaging to the economy, because every cut from austerity, reduces tax intakes, requiring yet more cuts and austerity, in a destructive cycle. It is not the only choice; we have given stimulus to the banks, but none to the people or to business, and it is that stimulus which we need to undertake to reinflate the economy and get out of this mess; austerity is just ploughing us further into it. Money creation and a deficit are exactly what is needed to get out of this crisis (though we have so big a deficit now, that that option is heavily constrained), particularly in the creation of a job guarantee program, but it is the powers that be in the EU, who are keeping us held in austerity, choosing this deliberately destructive policy that is decimating the periphery countries, while less affecting (but still damaging) the core countries. Our government are impotent at influencing things at an EU level, and we need to protest both against our own governments incompetence, and against the incompetence of the EU powers holding us in austerity.
burgermasters wrote: » I never said burn towns or businesses? But why not rebel against the government? It beats taking the c*** that we do.? At the end of the day we get bullied into referendums the people of Ireland have suffered for hundreds of years despite Wilt you might think the people of Ireland need to protect the freedom they deserve to quote our very own enda its a democracy but yet we get bullied into these things,
Monty Burnz wrote: » There's a decent summary here: Of course this assumes that no deal is done on the promissory notes. A deal will be done. If the EU/ECB rogers the best-behaving boy in class, why would it expect co-operation from the others? Incidentally, that €3 billion a year is being paid to the Irish Central Bank, not to bondholders or the ECB or anyone else.But then the deal with the EU/IMF would collapse and we wouldn't have access to the billions that they are lending us to keep the lights on in the hospitals and schools. That would show them though, huh?
Monty Burnz wrote: » So if we protest enough, the government will come up with an alternative to - say - death?
SafeSurfer wrote: » This again. This is your assumption. Many commentators are of the opinion that this would not happen. That pulling the plug, even on Greece is simply not an option.
SafeSurfer wrote: » Death is beyond the power of government, so the analogy is irrelevant. They do have the power to make political choices based on the wishes of the citizens.
KyussBishop wrote: » As I've been saying in a couple of threads, we handed sovereign control over our currency to the EU, when we joined the Euro, and it is exactly that which is preventing us from getting out of this mess now. y.
Monty Burnz wrote: » So you are, in summary, arguing for galloping inflation?
Guy:Incognito wrote: » Why not take it down to a local level so? Some counties in Ireland suffer becausee they are ruled by Dublin. Why not chop the country up in to 26 separate countries that all run themselves? But then of course, I don't want the higher up in the government in Swords making decisions about a place far away like Tallaght, so maybe all small towns should be their own countries too?
KyussBishop wrote: » Predictably, the scaremongering over hyperinflation, and you're begging the question here, as 1: You don't even know how much money it would cost to fund what I am promoting, thus 2: You have no idea how much or even if there would be inflation, and 3: You have no model to prove there would be either, outside of one based on flawed gold-standard-based economic theories.
Monty Burnz wrote: » Let's risk it so - sure if OAPs don't get their pensions and the hospitals and schools close, we can always just head over to the UK or Germany or whatever. At least, some of us can. The rest can f*** themselves. A miracle cure to the country going bust may just beyond the power of government too.
KyussBishop wrote: » I'm not arguing for secession, I'm pointing out we have no democratic control over this aspect of the EU; the EU control over our national policies, through control over our currency, is undemocratic, and we need to protest the undemocratic nature of that and to pressure for the EU to engage in non-financial-sector stimulus.
Monty Burnz wrote: » Sigh. Your proposal is ridiculous and your understanding of economics is...highly ideological.
SafeSurfer wrote: » You do know that there are many, many examples of revolutions resulting in increased wealth and increased equality of wealth distribution. Would the US be a colonial backwater through meekness or a global superpower because of their revolution?
SafeSurfer wrote: » You seem incredibly risk averse. Just like the gilded, cossetted civil servants advising our government. I'm all right Jack, lets not risk change. Change, innovation and risk taking will get this country back on track sooner than limp wristed acceptance of the status quo.
KyussBishop wrote: » Assertions and ad-hominem; you don't know what my economic views are, and you're dismissing my view out of hand due to your own economic preconceptions. When will we experience runaway hyperinflation; after printing €1 billion? €2 billion? €10-€50-€100 billion? A trillion Euro? Why are we not experiencing hyperinflation right now? The ECB has already doled out more than a trillion Euro already after all.
Guy:Incognito wrote: » So we don't trust our own politicians but we don't want the EU making decisions either?
Monty Burnz wrote: » I don't have time to dismantle your (admittedly very vague) ridiculous idea, but it is full of holes from top to bottom and is essentially the economics equivalent of science fiction.
