If a new hiring policy was to be open to that prospect I cannot see why a cadetship would be necessary.
bluecode wrote: » I can understand the 'dream job' idea. I felt the same. I was pretty sure when Aer Lingus and or the Air Corps saw my enthusiasm they would snap me up. But they declined my kind offer on the first occasion. There was sadly no second occasion as one stopped taking cadets and the other changed the rules. You really have to leave the dream job notion behind and start considering it like any job. Just as anyone looking at accounting or architecture or Zoology. What are the requirements? What do I need? What are the job prospects and career prospects? You also have to be realistic and decide if you are really cut out for the job.
bluecode wrote: » You cannot depend on cadetships either. They might be gone next year and a whole new method of selection found. One thing you can be sure of though is that you will be paying for your training. Whether it be a cadetship or on your own initiative. I know it's hard for a 16 year old to grasp this but you have to think about ten years into the future or even longer in terms of achieving your career ambitions as a pilot. That means you will have to make decisions now that will give you best chance of finding yourself actually sitting at an interview to be a pilot in any airline sometime in the future. The key thing is not to throw all your eggs into the one pilot basket. It may not work out and you might end up wondering where it all went wrong.
bluecode wrote: » Also don't get too caught up in getting into AL. We all know the saying: 'A bird in the hand.........' It doesn't matter about the colour of the aircraft or indeed the type. It's about the flying. Take any flying job.
bluecode wrote: » I know a guy who is about to throw away golden opportunity to work as a pilot. He has the ratings and the door is being held open for him but he still clings to the original idea and hasn't really grasped the opportunity. What will happen is that someone else will move in there and pass him by. He'll be left with his dream while the other guy will be getting on with the practical reality of his career.
bluecode wrote: » On the point of connections, it's all about connections not just in Aer Lingus. In fact I am one of the few people I know who did it without connections. What I had was timing and luck. That's good but connections are better. You still have to meet the standards but having someone point you in the right direction is always a help.
lufties wrote: » I worked for EI in recent years but not as a pilot..I remember as a kid looking at that ad on tv in the 80's and how it was all romanticised..it is a nice company to work for but its not as glamorous as it's made out to be, long hours and nightshifts working out in all types of weather, the politics of the place can grind you down too if you let it get to you. I sacrificed working there to head off work abroad, send haven't looked back since. Bottom line working with EI is not the be all and end all..there are plenty of other airlines out there.
True. What I was thinking was to try and get inside for some work experience (difficult, I know... may have to pull a few strings) and see the different sides of working at an airline, whether it be as an FA, dispatcch, check in ect. I could have a chat and see what they all think. Then, I could try the IAA for tower. With this I could then try and aim for a simple job like that inside the airline, save up for a few years and then going about training for being a pilot. If my feelings towards the job change then hey, I've got plenty of money in my back pocket.
bluecode wrote: » I would suggest that perhaps that's not such a good idea. None of those jobs are particularly well paid, well except ATC. Essentially it was one of the mistakes I made. I got a job in aviation thinking I would use the money to learn to fly. In a way it worked but it wasn't well paid and without qualifications I couldn't rise up through the ranks and improve my salary, only when I got redundancy that I managed to finish the ratings. Those are perfectly good jobs to go into after you qualify as a pilot to mark time until a flying job comes your way. You can always find pilots doing these jobs waiting for their opportunity. Your best bet actually is to go and get qualified in something you like that is sufficiently well paid that you can afford to either save hard or be in a position to borrow or both. Higher education of some sort. It's also worth remembering that ATC is very desirable job in it's own right so thinking of it in terms of using it as a stepping stone is not neccessarily the best way. However I do know an EI Captain who started in ATC. Low paid jobs are not a good idea for someone seeking to gather money to be a pilot. Unless you intend to be a teetotal recluse who never goes anywhere and only owns one pair of shoes, a 'I'd rather be flying' t-shirt and scruffy jeans, can't afford to have a girlfriend, lives with his parents and drives a bicycle while saving up for flying lessons. Then you'll need more than minimum wage. Not a good image for a future airline Captain. The irony of becoming a pilot when haven't got the money upfront is that you have to make a success of one career to get to the other.
Dubhaltach wrote: » Oh the dissappointment What was it, if you don't mind me asking you did? ATC actually sounds really interesting but I'm not sure if I could put up with the tediousness for a life long career. Also, how badly paid are other airline workers? What type of qualifications are actually needed to go up thorough the ranks? If it's languages I know Irish English French and have started learning Dutch. My mum and dad also speak German and Italian so I could learn those easily enough You seem to be very in the know anyway, as someone who would really, really love to work in aviation what would your tips be? Especially regarding LC languages. I'm turning 16 in a week and so from then I'm trying to get fit, maybe try and start logging the occasional hour but really I realistacally will end up studying and getting fit for a medical. I'm not unhealthy in any way, I just need some more strenght and fitness. Also, do you know of the phone number of the HR department? That was what another thread told me to ring to have a higher chance of getting in. Anyway else to get in for WE? Because realistically, I'm still young and although it's the only area I have a passion in (before, hell a few weeks ago before I started to think about it more there was nothing at all that interested me) I want to know if I'm certainly interested, what is involved ect.
LeftBase wrote: » You're like me 10 years ago!:D Getting a job in Aer Lingus isnt as simple as picking up the phone and asking for one. It also pins you to Aer Lingus as you have zero chance with Ryanair if you worked in Aer Lingus, even as a toilet cleaner. There is no real LC criteria for flying. A good grasp of maths and physics helps a fair bit for ATPLs but you could get by without them and with a basic maths knowledge. Languages are not really that so much of an issue. English is the language of the air and you would only need another language if you were based overseas and even then it's not a must. Concentrate on school and getting good grades! It wont get you all the way but it looks better than failing stuff at any rate!
GoAround wrote: » What about if you worked for FR, if you applied for a position at Aer Lingus would this be seen as a negative?? The downside to working with Ryanair is the whole pay for type rating yourself and everything else along with it. After reading many forums about Ryanair, I get the impression that you have to use FR the way they use you, if your lucky enough to get a job,stay there and build up your hourse and move on. Do most airlines pay for your type rating, like in general, excluding FR? If they dont,after working for FR and building up your hours wouldnt you be stuck to applying for jobs that fly 737's, I kind of see this as a negative, I personally would rather be type rated on an a320. Current orders are suggesting that the airbus will be the main choice for airlines. Maybe I am wrong( I might have opened a can of worms saying that).. I understand that Boeing are developing the 737max but I see the "Bus" taking over..
LeftBase wrote: » FR however wont hire anyone for anything if they came from another airline. I think that is a policy.
bluecode wrote: » Just to clarify Ryanair do hire Direct entry Captains. Just not First Officers.
bluecode wrote: » Languages are always handy for a pilot and an airport worker but won't help much getting a pilot job. It may or may not help with other airport jobs. It won't do any harm. But the biggest emphasis for pilots is on technical subjects. Most pilots are technically oriented. Ringing HR won't help, they'll tell you to send in a CV. But if you want to talk to them. Just ring the main number and ask to be put through. As for describing ATC as tedious, ouch!:eek: It's far from it. Just listen in on any ATC frequency. Flying can be tedious too, everything can be. Yes many airport jobs are low paid, most in fact. Even Aer Lingus now. Even pilots are low paid now in comparison with the past. Aim to go to college is my advice and work from there.
LeftBase wrote: » Dubhaltach, I think you misunderstand what experience an airline looks for in a pilot. Working for an airline or for the DAA will give you a good insight into airport life but very little insight into day to day flight ops. To get to the level of dispatch or flight line ops you would have to move up the ranks of an airline and that would take many years. During the last Aer Lingus cadetship an awful lot of Aer Lingus ops staff applied and were turned down. In this day and age it's dog eat dog and the only experience that matters to the vast majority of airlines, Aer Lingus included, is the numbers in your logbook and on what type of aircraft they were done. Most Aer Lingus newbies come in from other airlines with a few 1000 jet/tprop hours and maybe even an A320 type rating. If you worked for Aer Lingus to fund your training...well that may be a problem. Pay aside, when another airline saw Aer Lingus on your CV at a pilot interview they would assume straight off the bat that there is a pretty good chance you were going to be leaving to go back given the chance. Ryanair who were and may in the future again be the biggest hiring force will not actually hire staff that worked at another airline. Airlines don't hire FOs...they hire future Captains and if it looks like you'll be on your merry way when Aer Lingus call that will not look good. Notable exceptions to this rule are Ryanair and Aer Arran who more or less know that most of their pilots will move on...but Ryanair wont hire you with Aer Lingus on your CV!
LeftBase wrote: » Don't you mean Brookfield?:D
Dubhaltach wrote: » I'm in the same situation as you, I don't know there's just something so alluring about it. And the fact that your office is just in another world must be nice I'm only 16 I'm going into transition year but still have the same tough decisions, try really hard to get a good LC and wait for a cadetship or work in other jobs in the airline to save up for modular training... I don't see my self even halving the 6k for a PPL never mind the 100k for the whole lot, but even if I need to spend years in some thing less interesting I still feel like it's a good goal. I'm like you, whenever we were driving up the old airport road I had my face glued to the window
bluecode wrote: » The Aer Lingus aptitude test is quite strict, you will need a good standard of English among other things. Not only that the same test is applied even to experienced pilots aiming to get into Aer Lingus. I can understand the 'dream job' idea. I felt the same. I was pretty sure when Aer Lingus and or the Air Corps saw my enthusiasm they would snap me up. But they declined my kind offer on the first occasion. There was sadly no second occasion as one stopped taking cadets and the other changed the rules. You really have to leave the dream job notion behind and start considering it like any job. Just as anyone looking at accounting or architecture or Zoology. What are the requirements? What do I need? What are the job prospects and career prospects? You also have to be realistic and decide if you are really cut out for the job. You cannot depend on cadetships either. They might be gone next year and a whole new method of selection found. One thing you can be sure of though is that you will be paying for your training. Whether it be a cadetship or on your own initiative. I know it's hard for a 16 year old to grasp this but you have to think about ten years into the future or even longer in terms of achieving your career ambitions as a pilot. That means you will have to make decisions now that will give you best chance of finding yourself actually sitting at an interview to be a pilot in any airline sometime in the future. The key thing is not to throw all your eggs into the one pilot basket. It may not work out and you might end up wondering where it all went wrong. Also don't get too caught up in getting into AL. We all know the saying: 'A bird in the hand.........' It doesn't matter about the colour of the aircraft or indeed the type. It's about the flying. Take any flying job. I know a guy who is about to throw away golden opportunity to work as a pilot. He has the ratings and the door is being held open for him but he still clings to the original idea and hasn't really grasped the opportunity. What will happen is that someone else will move in there and pass him by. He'll be left with his dream while the other guy will be getting on with the practical reality of his career. You would think this is the exception. In my experience it's not. On the point of connections, it's all about connections not just in Aer Lingus. In fact I am one of the few people I know who did it without connections. What I had was timing and luck. That's good but connections are better. You still have to meet the standards but having someone point you in the right direction is always a help.
A319er wrote: » Rumours and not confirmed but lookslike recent process went well and theya re due back April 2013 to start type rating Yalk is of repeating the process in 2013
basill wrote: » At AL we are paid a salary, sector pay and enjoy the benefits that you would expect from a proper airline such as interline agreements and staff travel to name a few.
basill wrote: » Whats the source of your info regarding their pay and conditions? There are published pay scales for Cadets, FOs and Captains who are based in the ROI. As to your comparison to FR you must be deluded or very poorly informed. Many FOs in FR are getting paid sweet f/all. It depends on base and the whim of the planners. Not to mention the fact that as you gain more hours your hourly rate goes up and hence you no longer are flavour of the month for the rostering peeps. Go and try and work out what the payback is (if any) on the type rating cost and the associated interest. At AL we are paid a salary, sector pay and enjoy the benefits that you would expect from a proper airline such as interline agreements and staff travel to name a few.
LeftBase wrote: » Well I was told they were unlikely to be based in Ireland
MoeJay wrote: » Well you might have been told a lot of things, but whether they are based in Ireland or anywhere else, their package will be better than their next door neighbour either in a blue and white 737 or an orange 319 or a purple/white 320... As for where they will be based, nobody knows! So anyone saying otherwise is pure speculation and should be treated as such. Your comment "...I heard tell the pay/conditions for these cadets is very much in line with the standards set by Ryanair and it's ilk..." is way off the mark and I suggest you should check your sources before you add further useless info to a thread that has already been ruined several times.
