mattjack wrote: » If you say that one more time, this thread will go right back to the start.
philologos wrote: » People don't have a right not to be offended. The primary purpose of the Remembrance Sunday is to remember those who have lost their lives in armed conflict. If you're going to get offended over a few people deciding to remember the dead at war on November 11th or the nearest Sunday, and to wear a red poppy due to a poem written by a Canadian in 1915 that's your prerogative. Don't expect everyone around you to conform to your expectations. People disagree with you, and this is why tolerance is welcome. Agreeing to disagree is one of the most valuable tools in Western society.
billybudd wrote: » A question, would you wear a double badge that remembers Irish & British victims of the war, one a lilly and one a poppy, side by side?
gurramok wrote: » The primary purpose as you describe is not the case. Its used for modern conflicts Britain has been engaging in like NI hence the problem with it in an Irish context.
billybudd wrote: » Cool, maybe the poppy does, but like it or not it will never be mass worn here dues to our history.
philologos wrote: » Simply put from having seen observances in Ireland on the subject, I'd have to disagree with you. The poppy has broader significance. I've explained that to you and others multiple times, so I don't see much more fruit in resaying that again and again.
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gurramok wrote: » You've been proved wrong yet again and you fail to read posts(or listen).
Yes, lets donate to the welfare for the Bloody Sunday murderers.:mad:
gurramok wrote: » They haven't as none have been convicted of murder, a big cover up. Most of the perpetrators would be now retired soldiers, fully receiving their army pensions as if they did nothing wrong. Of course if your suggestion did actually happen, it would be a step forward in reconciliation on the poppy issue.
indioblack wrote: » No doubt there are secrets kept by the military and previous govenments concerning NI over the decades. Equally, there will be other groups and organisations involved who have their own share of dirty linen. It would be neat to say "draw a line under the past" - but that would be daft considering that this thread is about commemorating events that mainly occured in the past.I suspect that we will be here this time next year. Perhaps it would be more productive to avoid using the poppy as a vehicle to address this issue - like Northern Ireland it is very emotive.
philologos wrote: » The red poppy already does what I need it to do. It's based on a Canadian's poem after WW1 and it suitably reflects the futility of war. Why do I need to add more symbols when the red poppy is enough?
philologos wrote: » Simply put from having seen observances in Ireland on the subject, I'd have to disagree with you. The poppy has broader significance. I've explained that to you and others multiple times, so I don't see much more fruit in resaying that again and again. billybud: Honestly, I and others don't care. It doesn't matter if most people in Ireland join in. That's not what it is about. I haven't been trying to convince people to wear it because I don't care what they do on the matter. What I do care about is pure ignorance every year being spouted about it.
billybudd wrote: » Well by not caring your making yourself part of that ''pure ignorance'' .
dooferoaks wrote: » There is no need to suspect, its a definite, its here EVERY year, same posters, same posts.
philologos wrote: » Think about it this way, by not caring about whether or not you wear it, I'm saying I'll tolerate you not wearing it, it's not a huge concern to me. It means I've no role interfering with your decision because genuinely I don't care if you do or don't wear it. On the same note, my wearing the poppy doesn't involve you or gurramok for example. I already have clear reasons to wear the red poppy which I've thought through. In that sense I care little about what you think of my decision. My non-caring on this issue allows the greatest freedom for others to think and decide for themselves. I don't care if you or others don't and that's a good thing.[/QUOTE Fair enough, the reason i would not wear one is not because im Irish, its because i dont support murderous regimes who torture and inflict their might on less advantaged countries regardless if they did good things in 2 world wars.
Latchy wrote: » I've often attended and marched in the remembrance Sunday parade in London along with hundreds of other ex- Irish service men and women who served in Irish Defence Forces or British Forces and some who also have served in both .The Irish contribution from north and south of Ireland in the first and second world wars and conflicts since is well documented and it's right and fitting that people wish to remember all those who fought and died for the greater freedom of all on these islands and further afield .
billybudd wrote: » I march once a year for the brave Mau-mau rebellion brothers and sisters who lost their lives in the 50's Kenya.
philologos wrote: » My non-caring on this issue....
BX 19 wrote: » Because an estimated 30,000 people died in WW1 from Ireland. Simple as. nothing more.
It's a symbol remembering those who died, and nothing more.
marwelie wrote: » http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Poppy_Appeal Anyone who watches Our War on BBC would be moved to wear one. To possibly sacrifice yourself in war for your country (and im not talking ROI/UK/NI stuff here) when you're barely out of school is the most selfless act anyone can commit.
GRMA wrote: » So that's a No then, you're just making things up.
billybudd wrote: » philologos wrote: » Think about it this way, by not caring about whether or not you wear it, I'm saying I'll tolerate you not wearing it, it's not a huge concern to me. It means I've no role interfering with your decision because genuinely I don't care if you do or don't wear it. On the same note, my wearing the poppy doesn't involve you or gurramok for example. I already have clear reasons to wear the red poppy which I've thought through. In that sense I care little about what you think of my decision. My non-caring on this issue allows the greatest freedom for others to think and decide for themselves. I don't care if you or others don't and that's a good thing.[/QUOTE Fair enough, the reason i would not wear one is not because im Irish, its because i dont support murderous regimes who torture and inflict their might on less advantaged countries regardless if they did good things in 2 world wars. So why would a murderous regime want to do good things?
Latchy wrote: » Yes .Yes it's all about remembering the millions who died .
Snickers Man wrote: » You're not "remembering"; you're "commemorating". There's a difference. The verbs "to commemorate" and "to forget" are not antonyms.
billybudd wrote: » Well no, for every poppy sold today a portion is given to soldiers injured in active duty in todays ''wars'', so march all you want and remember all the Irish who gave up their life for a free europe all you want, but this thread is about the wearing of a poppy and all that this involves.
Latchy wrote: » Oh really ... Well dude I have friends who died in conflicts and while I don't need you to point out the difference , I'll be personally '' remembering '' them at the '' commemoration '' .Wearing of a poppy is to remember those millions who have died in active service , not just of Irish people but of 'All ' who died in service . The portion of money given to soldiers injured in active duty in today's ''wars'' is a separate issue
Japer wrote: » Hundreds of thousands of Irish people have volunteered to serve with UK forces....from when back in the day we were part of the UK..... to WW2 to help save Europe from Nazism.... to the troubles when they helped prevent terrorism / helped support the police force + rule of the law . I'd prefer the freedom in these islands than to live under Nazism or under Stalin or his successors.
Latchy wrote: » Oh really ... I'll be personally '' remembering '' them at the '' commemoration '' .
