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STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

paddy147

The amount of threads getting posted each day about stoves is unreal and taking away from other plumbing issues.

Can I suggest to the members and also the mods a dedicated "sticky" thread about stoves and nothing else.

Thanks.:)

Hi Folks. This sticky has been suggested by a regular poster and contributed to quite well. It seems to have generated a lot of interest. While advertising is not permitted under forum charter a balanced view of multiple suppliers is allowed. The rule of thumb is if you are unsure just ask. But keeping it simple and discussing the techanical details of multiple suppliers will be safe. Keep pricing out of the thread and only reply if requested to by PM -Personal message. An instant permant ban will result for breach of charter on advertising.

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matildajane

I wouldnt say its that long. Possibly around 3m I'd say. I think the main issue is that it is supposed to clear any obstructions and ours doesnt.

SmithySeller

matildajane wrote: »

I wouldnt say its that long. Possibly around 3m I'd say. I think the main issue is that it is supposed to clear any obstructions and ours doesnt.

Im no expert, but Im in the market for a stove, and one consistent thing in all the technical details outlines that the flue should be at a minimum 4 metres for draft purposes. Building regs in Ireland 'I think' state that there should be a minimum of 4.5 metres from the top of the stove to the top of the flue. A short 3 metre flue I would have thought would have down draft issues. Again Im no expert at all.. An anti-downdraft cowl of some description might help

matildajane

I have the spinning cowl. I think we need to add more height to the flue.

Stove Fan

matildajane wrote: »

we have a stove in a single storey extension at the back of our dormer house. The stove was fitted using an outlet pipe and flue comes out of the wall at the back and just about clears the height of the extension. The flue doesnt however clear the height of the front dormer section of the house. The stove works fine most of the time but when the wind is blowing from a north / north easterly direction the stove smokes unless we leave a window open inside. Quite often as well the smoke blows downwards outside. Is the outside flue not high enough? I am worried that if we add much more it may not be stable. Would it be expensive to add another metre to it?

Hi, ideally a minimum flue height should be 4.5 metres without obstructions. In your case adding an extra metre of twinwall may help. You can also buy guy wires to support the flue above the roof.
To be honest though raising the flue a metre and adding a H cowel on the top would probably cure the downdraft. A H cowel is around £100 and twinwall metre around £75. Labour about a few hours max.

Also you state that opening the door/window stops the stove smoking. In this case also make sure the room has a sufficient air vent in the wall to bring in combustion air.
You should have so much fixed ventilation depending on air tightness of property.

For older homes ie less airtight you should have an air vent of 550 sq mm per kw rated over 5kw.

In a modern newish airtight home 550sq mm per kw of the stoves rated output.

Please install a carbon monoxide alarm and ideally dont use the stove until the faults are fixed.

Stove Fan:)

Supercell

We bought a Country Kiln stove earlier this year and are only now starting to use it. It works fantastically and are very happy with its performance.
However , despite being into maybe the 10th(ish) burn by now there is still a strong chemical smell from it. The first time we lit it the room was smoked out completely from it but not that bad now. I read online that it would take a few burns to get rid of this smell, but surely by now it should have gone?
Its bad enough that we have to open the windows to breathe which is of course counter productive! I've a seven month old baby and am worried that this isn't doing his lungs any good either.

I'm lighting a big fire tonight and will do tomorrow night to see if it goes but strongly suspect it won't.
Its really disappointing - the stove is performing perfectly and gives of great heat and burns far less fuel than the open fire did before it but we can't use it properly with the smell/fumes.

If I got stove paint would that work?, should it eventually go by itself - how long do the "burn in " smells generally last?
Hope someone can help, thanks.

Robbie.G

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi, ideally a minimum flue height should be 4.5 metres without obstructions. In your case adding an extra metre of twinwall may help. You can also buy guy wires to support the flue above the roof.
To be honest though raising the flue a metre and adding a H cowel on the top would probably cure the downdraft. A H cowel is around £100 and twinwall metre around £75. Labour about a few hours max.

Also you state that opening the door/window stops the stove smoking. In this case also make sure the room has a sufficient air vent in the wall to bring in combustion air.
You should have so much fixed ventilation depending on air tightness of property.

For older homes ie less airtight you should have an air vent of 550 sq mm per kw rated over 5kw.

In a modern newish airtight home 550sq mm per kw of the stoves rated output.

Please install a carbon monoxide alarm and ideally dont use the stove until the faults are fixed.

Stove Fan:)

All stoves over or under 5kw need ventilation for combustion
H cowls work for down draughts but be carefully of them as they can't be swept properly and you can get a blockage at the top of the H

Stove Fan

Robbie.G wrote: »

All stoves over or under 5kw need ventilation for combustion
H cowls work for down draughts but be carefully of them as they can't be swept properly and you can get a blockage at the top of the H

No it's what I stated, I'm sure Irish regs are similar to UK. You only need permanent ventilation on stoves under 5kw if your home is newish and has an air permeability of less than 5.0m3/h.m2.
A stove rated under 5kw installed in a drafty pre 2008 home needs no additional ventilation.

For any stove in a drafty homes you need a vent of 550sq mm for every KW over 5kw.

For a stove rated at any kw output in a home built from 2008 onwards or thats also very airtight you need 550sqmm for every kw of rated output.

See link here
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove-ventilation.html

Stove Fan:)

Robbie.G

Stove Fan wrote: »

No it's what I stated, I'm sure Irish regs are similar to UK. You only need permanent ventilation on stoves under 5kw if your home is newish and has an air permeability of less than 5.0m3/h.m2.
A stove rated under 5kw installed in a drafty pre 2008 home needs no additional ventilation.

For any stove in a drafty homes you need a vent of 550sq mm for every KW over 5kw.

For a stove rated at any kw output in a home built from 2008 onwards or thats also very airtight you need 550sqmm for every kw of rated output.

See link here
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove-ventilation.html

Stove Fan:)

We go by part j Irish building regs

Table 1 Air Supply to Appliances
Solid fuel burning open appliance
A ventilation opening (or openings) with a total free area of at least 50% of the appliance throat opening area (of which at least 6500 mm2 is permanent ventilation) shall be provided.
For description and dimensions of “throat”, see BS 8303: Part 1:1994).

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1650,en.pdf

Stove Fan

Robbie.G wrote: »

We go by part j Irish building regs

Table 1 Air Supply to Appliances
Solid fuel burning open appliance
A ventilation opening (or openings) with a total free area of at least 50% of the appliance throat opening area (of which at least 6500 mm2 is permanent ventilation) shall be provided.
For description and dimensions of “throat”, see BS 8303: Part 1:1994).

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1650,en.pdf

Throat to me is more for open fires, hence open appliances. My understanding below the above quote is by Irish part J you need a minimum of 6,500sqmm on any stove rated over 5kw. To be honest I think the Irish ventilation wording could be clearer in interpretation as it first states 550sqmm over 5kw and then contradicts itself by saying but in no case less than 6,500sqmm.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1650,en.pdf

As an example a stanley oisin is rated at 6.5kw. Stanley stove installation instructions state.

VENTILATION AND COMBUSTION AIR
REQUIREMENTS
The minimum effective air requirement for this appliance
is 132 cm2. When calculating combustion air
requirements for this appliance use the following
equation: 550mm2 per each kW of rated output
above 5 kW should be provided, where a flue
draught stabiliser is used the total free area shall be
increased by 300mm2 for each kW of rated output.

http://www.waterfordstanley.com/media/200805/oisinsf.pdf

Stove Fan:).

Robbie.G

Stove Fan wrote: »

Throat to me is more for open fires, hence open appliances. My understanding below the above quote is by Irish part J you need a minimum of 6,500sqmm on any stove rated over 5kw. To be honest I think the Irish ventilation wording could be clearer in interpretation as it first states 550sqmm over 5kw and then contradicts itself by saying but in no case less than 6,500sqmm.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1650,en.pdf

As an example a stanley oisin is rated at 6.5kw. Stanley stove installation instructions state.

VENTILATION AND COMBUSTION AIR
REQUIREMENTS
The minimum effective air requirement for this appliance
is 132 cm2. When calculating combustion air
requirements for this appliance use the following
equation: 550mm2 per each kW of rated output
above 5 kW should be provided, where a flue
draught stabiliser is used the total free area shall be
increased by 300mm2 for each kW of rated output.

http://www.waterfordstanley.com/media/200805/oisinsf.pdf

Stove Fan:).

Yes it is a bit vague it states that the minimum vent per room is 6500 so you need that no mater what old house or new.
Re the Oisin you still have to comply with building regs no matter what manufacturer instructions state at the end of the day it is law.Well that's what iwas taught
The new draught of part j is out for consultation it is a lot clearer regarding vents

Cootehill

Sorry for jumping in on this discussion but i'm looking for some info!
We are planning on putting a free standing stove in the living room and want to keep the flue inside and up through the bedroom upstairs then out the roof. The company doing it for us has said this is no problem as the flue will be boxed off. My question is will we lose any heat from the flue from boxing it off as the whole idea of keeping it was to gain heat and secondly is if we do lose the heat then is there any other way of protecting it without losing heat?

Robbie.G

Cootehill wrote: »

Sorry for jumping in on this discussion but i'm looking for some info!
We are planning on putting a free standing stove in the living room and want to keep the flue inside and up through the bedroom upstairs then out the roof. The company doing it for us has said this is no problem as the flue will be boxed off. My question is will we lose any heat from the flue from boxing it off as the whole idea of keeping it was to gain heat and secondly is if we do lose the heat then is there any other way of protecting it without losing heat?

The company is right it has to be boxed off
The reason for the boxing is to stop someone from touching it
It has to be twin wall flue and there isn't a great amount of heat lost through it.

Stove Fan

Hi everyone:). I just want to say that I am leaving the forum to start a new life back in the UK.
I have enjoyed advising on all things stove related, but am going to be very busy with pastures new and won't be taking such an active role on the forum. I will pop in from time to time, but need to organise my new place and find work.

It's been good to give advice and this thread has been a great success, I hope someone will continue.

For rad sizes compare the size here, it will give you a rough output.
http://www.traderadiators.com/acatalog/Compact_Radiators.html
Add each rad up and add 2-3kw for heating the domestic hot water. This will give a rough boiler size.

Measure the room your stove is going into and input the measurements here
http://www.waterfordstanley.com/stanley-stoves/room-heat-calculator.aspx You can select insulation levels.
If you are installing a boiler stove the stoves room heat should match or be less than the calculated room kw figure.
Look at the stoves quoted room heat and boiler output KW figure. Ideally get the plumber to size the stove during a home visit.
The stove should be installed to manufacturers instructions and building regs.
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1650,en.pdf
Try to buy a well proven brand.

Look at stove reviews at: www.whatstove.co.uk

I wish everyone the very best and keep warm:D

Kind regards:). James. (Stove Fan)

mhtc

Hi all,

I'm looking into getting an insert stove. Based on room size we only need a ~4kw. Has anyone experience or an opinion, good or bad, in relation to the following:

Mulberry Stoker
http://www.mulberrystoves.com/products-stoker.html

WST4I Multifuel Inset Stove
http://www.dimpco.ie/product-range/Dimplex-Domestic-Products/Solid-Fuel-Stoves

Boru Croi Beag inset stove
http://borustoves.ie/an-croi-beag/

TR4
http://www.tripp.ie/heatdesign/Main/Stoves_TR4.htm

Would a flue be required for these? If it depends on certain factors, what would these be?
I've been quotes €700-€800 for a flue, would this be concidered high/about right?
Also, I'd imagine there are good and bad flues, what should I look out for or more importantly avoid?
Should the space between the flexi-flue and chimney be filled in?

Regarding my actual fireplace, to make room, it looks as though the back of the hearth will have to be removed. Should anyting be put in its place, some fire protection?

Finally, has anyone every deal with Hearth and Home in Fonthill and if so would you recomend them? Or are there any supplier+fitter you'd recommend (Dublin Area)?

It's alot of questions I know..thanks in advanced!
Mhtc

Kateof1

Hi I am looking for a boiler stove to heat 11 rads. They are mostly single rads but very big one. I have no idea about stoves and liked the Stanley Reginald but after reading some reviews I have changed my mind and I am not looking at hunter or Charnwood. I would appreciate any advice.

NIMAN

Can I ask what is probably a stupid question, but I am a bit of a numpty when it comes to stoves and plumbing.

I have noticed when using my stove (with back boiler) that sometimes the radiators can seem to heat up relatively quickly after the fire is lit, but other times it can take a couple of hours for them to heat.

Also, some times I notice that even after hours of use my hot water cylinder is not full of hot water, but other times it is full and very hot.

Now the question!

Does the system have to heat the water cylinder before it can heat the rads? Is that the first thing it will do?

And if I have the hot water cylinder pre-heated, say with the immersion or the oil, does this take strain off the stove and allow it to heat the rads more efficiently?

And can I sneak another question in here too? Using oil over the last few weeks I noticed that there are 2 main rads that are staying cold and not heating at all. However, last night I lit the stove for the 1st time this year, and these 2 same rads began to heat up (not as much as others in the house to be fair). Why would rads heat on solid fuel but not oil?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

mylomac

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi everyone:). I just want to say that I am leaving the forum to start a new life back in the UK.
I have enjoyed advising on all things stove related, but am going to be very busy with pastures new and won't be taking such an active role on the forum. I will pop in from time to time, but need to organise my new place and find work.

It's been good to give advice and this thread has been a great success, I hope someone will continue.

For rad sizes compare the size here, it will give you a rough output.
http://www.traderadiators.com/acatalog/Compact_Radiators.html
Add each rad up and add 2-3kw for heating the domestic hot water. This will give a rough boiler size.

Measure the room your stove is going into and input the measurements here
http://www.waterfordstanley.com/stanley-stoves/room-heat-calculator.aspx You can select insulation levels.
If you are installing a boiler stove the stoves room heat should match or be less than the calculated room kw figure.
Look at the stoves quoted room heat and boiler output KW figure. Ideally get the plumber to size the stove during a home visit.
The stove should be installed to manufacturers instructions and building regs.
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1650,en.pdf
Try to buy a well proven brand.

Look at stove reviews at: www.whatstove.co.uk

I wish everyone the very best and keep warm:D

Kind regards:). James. (Stove Fan)

Hi Stovefan,

Just wanted to say thanks for all the help and great advice that you have given. Best of luck back in the UK !

superhawk

Could anyone give me some advice on two insert stoves I'm looking at, I cant decide between a esse 350gs or a charnwood slx45.

NIMAN

Please don't go StoveFan !!

Anyway, all the best, enjoyed reading your advice on here, and thanks for the personal advice you gave me on my heating system via numerous PMs.
Proof that the internet can actually be useful at times.

Brianne

Thanks Stovefan for all your help. Good luck for the future.

Lackagh1970

Just want to post that I got my Stanley Oisin at the weekend so had its first light tonight..... put 2 briquettes on at 5.30 , they only went out while ago and the place is so cosy I cannot believe how much heat has generated out of only 2 briquettes and a couple of sticks....so happy I got it in now

randombar

Hi Lads,

Quick question, I've a charnwood country 16B in the kitchen (flue out the back) and I must say I love it, heats the whole downstairs all day for half a bag of smokeless and a few sticks.

Only problem I have at the moment is the draw doesn't seem to be great.

If I open the door to reload smoke comes out and the glass blackens so you can't see the fire way too fast (have a smaller one in the other room and it's fine!)

Is there anything I can do to improve the draw, I know I can open the vent and stuff but I would prefer to slow the burn and still have a good draw?

Thanks
Gary

randombar

superhawk wrote: »

Could anyone give me some advice on two insert stoves I'm looking at, I cant decide between a esse 350gs or a charnwood slx45.

Folks have the charnwood and love it, really well built.

Kaylee

Thank you for your advice when I was trying to navigate stoves minefield!

I got my Clearview installed a few days ago (haven't lit it yet though :P waiting for the plaster to dry on wall behind).

Wish you best of luck in your new life, I'm sure you've built up a nice bit of Karma from all your efforts here

.

p.s. are you bringing the cat? :P

Links234

Hey everyone, need advice on getting a stove... really looking to get an insert stove, and have my eyes on the Stanley one, but how does it compare to a regular one that would stick out? would there be a big difference?

hatch03

Hello
Very new to this web site, apoligies for any mistakes, looking for some advice

I'm putting in a stove in the next few weeks, I have finally picked a plumber after a lot of head scratching. The problem i'm having is which stove too pick, our plumber is recommending the Stanley Reginald but the local stove shop (highly recommended by many) says the Stratford He20eb.

Our house is a standard 4bed dormer fairly well insulated (walls pumped and extra insulation in the attic), the room where the stove is goin is 16' x 16' x 8.5'.
I have 13 rads (7 downstairs & 6 up) calculated between 14 & 16kws.
Sorry for goin on but its a lot of money to spend and i dont want to get the wrong one, any help would be greatly apprecated.

Thanks

wtd2008

Hi all,

I am looking for some advice, my parents want to install a stove in their bungalow and I have been tasked with doing some research but there seems to be so many options!
They already have oil and a backboiler that heats 10 radiators. The main living room is average size where the stove would go. They want one that will sit out on the hearth. They spoke to one dealer but I think he went into rip off the elderly mode.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks guys.

emg74

hatch03 wrote: »

Hello
Very new to this web site, apoligies for any mistakes, looking for some advice

I'm putting in a stove in the next few weeks, I have finally picked a plumber after a lot of head scratching. The problem i'm having is which stove too pick, our plumber is recommending the Stanley Reginald but the local stove shop (highly recommended by many) says the Stratford He20eb.

Our house is a standard 4bed dormer fairly well insulated (walls pumped and extra insulation in the attic), the room where the stove is goin is 16' x 16' x 8.5'.
I have 13 rads (7 downstairs & 6 up) calculated between 14 & 16kws.
Sorry for goin on but its a lot of money to spend and i dont want to get the wrong one, any help would be greatly apprecated.

Thanks

No exp of the Stratford EB20He but we installed the EB12HE during the summer and I am really happy with it. It is heating our rads really well. Seems to be fuel efficient and looks good. The glass is easy to keep clean and once cleaned it stays clean all day which is important to me.... I like to be able to see my fire

We got our walls pumped recently and upgraded the attic insulation last year (12 Yr old bungalow) and between that and the stove, I don't anticipate having to use the oil this year. The house seems to hold the heat well and I think the fact that the rads are warm for a long time, the house just doesn't seem to get cold at all.

I don't have any personal experience of the Stanley only that my in-laws have the Stanley Erin (I think, the big one with the pattern on the door) and to me it doesn't feel as solid as ours when ever I have to open and shut the door on theirs. I think a lot of people have great faith in them as they are a long established brand name but I don't know if they are as good as other stoves on the market. Also the glass on both my parent-in-laws and brother-in-laws stove never seems to be clean. I know MIL cleans her glass every day but to me it seems to be blackened all the time.... Only a small thing I'm sure but as I said earlier I like to be able to see the fire!!

gomamochi1

Quick bit of advice sought by stove fan please? I have installed a Dimplex westcott 8 kw stove in our living room with a fixed open vent to the exterior wall. Chimney flu adaptor fitted and lovely fire going since jan! Too hot sometimes!! Followed hetac guidelines for fitting stove with regards to fixed open vent- my question is the 4" bore hole is at ceiling height and open all the time. Can I move it down to just above the skirting boards near the stove as I feel the hot air is going out the vent at ceiling level? Heat rises etc!! Cheers

Brianne

How many rads are you heating with that emg and do they get very hot also is there plenty heat in room. I was all set to go with an inset but I'm going away from the idea now as the ones I've seen hardly throw any heat atall into room. They are very good to heat rads ok.