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The Irish suicide question

Ares

Is there a suicide epidemic currently in Ireland?

Every missing person thread of late results in suicide, with the odd case being perhaps a tragic drowning or something similar.

The next village to my own home village of maybe 600-800 people has seen 6 males between 18 and 25 kill themselves so far in 2012. That's 6 funerals I've been to which were absolutely tragic. These weren't copycat's.

Why are people so quick to seek such an ultimate solution to their problems?

What can we do, as a society, to help those suffering from issues and to help bring down the extremely high suicide rate?

Maybe it is still a taboo subject in Ireland, I suppose it is at the end of the day, nobody likes to talk about someone killing themselves, its not a particularly pleasant conversation to have.

Life can be amazingly wonderful. I went for a cycle there Saturday evening back home where the blue sky and the horizon blended into a wonderful mash of differing shades of blue. Life can be so beautiful and fulfilling. Its such an awful pity that some can never see this and take the tragic end to their issues.

If anyone reading this is contemplating suicide, there is always a way out. Get in touch with Samaritans, talk to someone you can trust, get it off your chest. Whatever you think is beautiful then go there and take a walk around and think about the good things.

Myself I love to go to the nearest body of water and enjoy the tranquility it brings. Particularly on sunny days. God I love crisp sunny winter days when I can do this!

There is always help, be it professional or personal, there is always someone there. Just believe in them, and more importantly believe in yourself and that one day you will become better and that things will get better in the future.

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DrumSteve

Very true, I just wish people would talk to someone before going through with it.

retalivity

Ares wrote: »

Life can be amazingly wonderful. I went for a cycle there Saturday evening back home where the blue sky and the horizon blended into a wonderful mash of differing shades of blue. Life can be so beautiful and fulfilling. Its such an awful pity that some can never see this and take the tragic end to their issues.

Taking one side without discussing the other doesn't help. Life can be overwhelmingly bleak too. Pontificating to people to try and see the good in the world without alleviating the problem can be a lot worse

3rdDegree

There really is always a solution. It is so tragic that people can be in such a dark place that they can see no other way out.

Ares

retalivity wrote: »

Taking one side without discussing the other doesn't help. Life can be overwhelmingly bleak too. Pontificating to people to try and see the good in the world without alleviating the problem can be a lot worse

Granted but there isn't much reason in telling people that life can be incredibly shít and not worth living.

I don't mean to pontificate, I was trying to show to brighter side that life can offer.

How can one alleviate the problem that life can be overwhelmingly bleak?

jackofalltrades

Ares wrote: »

What can we do, as a society, to help those suffering from issues and to help bring down the extremely high suicide rate?

Start by treating mental health issues as an illness, and not as a weakness.

Ares wrote: »

How can one alleviate the problem that life can be overwhelmingly bleak?

You can't. Life has ups and down. It's an inherent part of the human condition that has to be acknowledged.

Promac

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Start by treating mental health issues as an illness, and not as a weakness.

You can't. Life has ups and down. It's an inherent part of the human condition that has to be acknowledged.

A bleak outlook is a reflection of how an individual is dealing with his or her problems. Helping them to deal with feelings of depression (not just feeling a bit sad and beaten by misfortune) will vastly alter the chances of them doing something serious.

newmug

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Start by treating mental health issues as an illness, and not as a weakness.

I dont think someone contemplating suicide gives a sh1t how people percieve the issue regarding illness v weakness.

The term "mental illness" itself is too general a term. It covers a vast amount of problems, everything from learning difficulties to schizophrenia to memory loss. Its a vague, umberella term to cover anything associated with the brain / emotion / psychological makeup of our minds, and indeed the link between all three. Its like saying someone has a "physical illness" whether they have the flu, or a broken leg.

When it comes to suicide, 99% of cases are specifically to do with depression. You dont really hear of people with alzheimers or autism committing suicide. Sometimes people commit suicide for other reasons, eg. because of other underlying issues, such as psychosis, or because of a sudden emotional upheavel like a break-up or bereavement or bullying / abuse, but the epidemic in Ireland cannot simply be blamed on one-off things like that. There's too many similarities in unconnected cases.

The truth is that science just doesn't know enough yet to be able to explain it. We know as much about the circuitry of the brain as the ancient Greeks did about the physiology of the body. Thats about the level of understanding that we're at.

But there are definate patterns and commonalities. Its usually young men, and occasionally young women, who take their own lives through depression. Could it be somehow age or location related? Ireland has a fairly small gene pool, even moreso in rural areas. Could there be a genetic link? Also, the medicines we use to treat these people, do they need to be looked at? IMO spirituality / religion is a factor. In times gone by, we had a huge number priests and nuns. With the recent fall-off in the popularity of religion in this country, that just isn't the case anymore. Who joins the priesthood / convent, why young men and women of course! Was that filling in a gap for people with depression?

Jackofalltrades, you did touch on something there about people treating mental illnesses as a "weakness" though. For a person who has never experienced depression, seeing someone with depression can be confusing. There are people out there who are lazy and undiciplined, and just need a kick in the arse, as opposed to being actually clinicially depressed. For those of us who have never had depression, it can be very hard to discern between the two.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

You can't. Life has ups and down. It's an inherent part of the human condition that has to be acknowledged.

Bingo. Acknowledging that is a piece of cake for non-depressed people. But that seems to be the exact weapon thats missing from the arsenal of those with depression.

Promac

Ireland is a feckin horrible country to be depressed in. People who don't normally get depressed will get depressed in Ireland. Living in Ireland I was ready for the noose.

crusher000

What I can't understand is how much money is spent campaigning for road safety in Ireland but suicide takes more lives and the same financial backing isn't there. We also need to look at the causes of depression and as an earlier post said it is to general when we use the term mental illness. If we look at root causes of problems we'll have a better understanding. We have so many issues in society now that i could be here for the day. Young peole perceiving no prospects for the future, low self esteem, turning to drink for comfort etc etc. We still are slow to discuss the suicide problem and well done to original poster.

Grayson

I can remember years ago, when I was a kid, my parents saying that suicide was on the rise because a few kids near us had killed themselves (not together).

But suicide wasn't on the rise. Not nationally anyway. Just the distribution had resulted in a small cluster. And that always happens because when one suicide is published, there's a higher likelyhood that there will be another one.

Nowadays we have tinternet. And it provides a massive way to spam the fcuk oput of people with missing persons requests. You recieve one and send to all your friends. I get messages about people missing in the UK. I have no idea why I'd be any help at all there. Since so many people are aware, it becomes more newsworthy. And we have a 24 hour news cycle in our pockets with mobile internet. So it gets more coverage again.

My point being that I very much doubt that there's been a massive rise in suicide. There's just been a few high profile ones. The same goes for suicide due to bullying. Pre-internet/Mobile it happened. It's not like bullying has increases because of the internet. Just the methods have changed. However now there's a record of the taunts and insults. Before it happened, but there's no record of the verbal insults.

On the plus side, the internet gives groups like the samaritans and childline extra tools and does make people more aware of depression. So I guess it's worth the spam. Well, almost.

newmug

Promac wrote: »

Ireland is a feckin horrible country to be depressed in. People who don't normally get depressed will get depressed in Ireland. Living in Ireland I was ready for the noose.

Why? Explain why. I see you're living in NZ now, so it cant be the weather or scenery! What was it, the drinking culture, the urbanisation of Ireland, what was it? Break it down for us. BTW what age are you, m/f?

TheTwiz

crusher000 wrote: »

What I can't understand is how much money is spent campaigning for road safety in Ireland but suicide takes more lives and the same financial backing isn't there. We also need to look at the causes of depression and as an earlier post said it is to general when we use the term mental illness. If we look at root causes of problems we'll have a better understanding. We have so many issues in society now that i could be here for the day. Young peole perceiving no prospects for the future, low self esteem, turning to drink for comfort etc etc. We still are slow to discuss the suicide problem and well done to original poster.

This is a serious problem in our country. What makes it worse is the vast majority who take their life are incredibly young. As the poster above alludes to, it's the lack of prospects for the future that are getting thousands upon thousands into a dark depression. It's all well & good for someone on an Internet forum say "we're here for you, we love you" Quite frankly this is pish. I myself can relate to this at the moment. I'm in a poor paying job with no real progress. Terrible wages. All my friends are earning quite good money. They're moving out with their partners. They can afford nice cars. I can't do any of that. I don't really have the qualifications to work in a field that I really want to work in. I don't have the finances to do things that interest me. There really isn't any positive outlook. As a result confidence & self esteem is at an all time low. To perhaps progress in the job obviously requires confidence and high energy. This is gone so work quality decreases. Have I considered ending it? Of course I have. About 5 days of the week i wish i could just go away. Will I? I highly doubt that. I wouldn't want to cause that anount of grief to my family.

I've looked into why young people are commiting suicide. Very few actually experience grief such as ill parents or a close death. It is all about what the future will be bring & for a lot it is nothing but bleak. Something drastic needs to be done in this country soon & fast.

HeyThereDeliah

TheTwiz wrote: »

Something drastic needs to be done in this country soon & fast.

What do you suggest?

Suicide is not just happening in Ireland, there is lots of help for people now its no longer a taboo subject.
If someone wants to end their life they will find a way, sometimes the stress for families constantly watching out for someone is not easy either.

I don't know how society can stop people taking their own lives, should we have the right to choose what we want to do ?

TheTwiz

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

What do you suggest?

Suicide is not just happening in Ireland, there is lots of help for people now its no longer a taboo subject.
If someone wants to end their life they will find a way, sometimes the stress for families constantly watching out for someone is not easy either.

I don't know how society can stop people taking their own lives, should we have the right to choose what we want to do ?

I'm not qualified in mental health so I couldn't possibly give an answer. You seem to suggest that people with depression are a lost cause.

Andy!!

Problem is this mental health service that you think can fix everything is grosselly underfunded, with its practices that are stuck well in the 80's or even 70's, and with some 'psychiatrists' that I can tell you from personal experience suffer from a number of disorders themselves.

There is no real help for people suffering in Ireland. No, a cup of tea will not fix you. Nor a pamphlet about how much your mammy loves you. People are checking out early because of the state this country is in and they just do not see a way out. For many there actually isnt a way out. The corruption, hypocracy, red tape and BS that infests Ireland like a cancer is why these people are dying but people are too apathetic to march on the government and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

golden lane

TheTwiz wrote: »

This is a serious problem in our country. What makes it worse is the vast majority who take their life are incredibly young. As the poster above alludes to, it's the lack of prospects for the future that are getting thousands upon thousands into a dark depression. It's all well & good for someone on an Internet forum say "we're here for you, we love you" Quite frankly this is pish. I myself can relate to this at the moment. I'm in a poor paying job with no real progress. Terrible wages. All my friends are earning quite good money. They're moving out with their partners. They can afford nice cars. I can't do any of that. I don't really have the qualifications to work in a field that I really want to work in. I don't have the finances to do things that interest me. There really isn't any positive outlook. As a result confidence & self esteem is at an all time low. To perhaps progress in the job obviously requires confidence and high energy. This is gone so work quality decreases. Have I considered ending it? Of course I have. About 5 days of the week i wish i could just go away. Will I? I highly doubt that. I wouldn't want to cause that anount of grief to my family.

I've looked into why young people are commiting suicide. Very few actually experience grief such as ill parents or a close death. It is all about what the future will be bring & for a lot it is nothing but bleak. Something drastic needs to be done in this country soon & fast.

you seem to think that somebody else has the answer.....

"life" is not bleak, it is your outlook that is bleak.......

now...get out of the doldrums and start planning.......

TheTwiz

golden lane wrote: »

you seem to think that somebody else has the answer.....

"life" is not bleak, it is your outlook that is bleak.......

now...get out of the doldrums and start planning.......

Plan what?

HeyThereDeliah

TheTwiz wrote: »

I'm not qualified in mental health so I couldn't possibly give an answer. You seem to suggest that people with depression are a lost cause.

Where did I suggest that?

Suicide is a personal choice and do we have the right to stop someone doing it? We can help, we can talk but have we the right to expect someone to go with what we want rather than what they want?

golden lane

TheTwiz wrote: »

Plan what?

whatever you need to cheer you up.....

TheTwiz

golden lane wrote: »

whatever you need to cheer you up.....

I want a mansion, a nice car, a great job & a supermodel wife.

Your suggestion is idiotic. Gob****e

golden lane

TheTwiz wrote: »

I want a mansion, a nice car, a great job & a supermodel wife.

Your suggestion is idiotic. Gob****e

your choice......i just want a polo mint....

SEPT 23 1989

Start by sorting out the unemployment disaster for that age group

Andy!!

golden lane wrote: »

whatever you need to cheer you up.....

WOW WHY DIDNT WE THINK OF THAT!! A NICE HOBNOB AND A CUP OF TEA PERHAPS???

Unbelievable.

HeyThereDeliah

Andy!! wrote: »

Problem is this mental health service that you think can fix everything is grosselly underfunded, with its practices that are stuck well in the 80's or even 70's, and with some 'psychiatrists' that I can tell you from personal experience suffer from a number of disorders themselves.

There is no real help for people suffering in Ireland. No, a cup of tea will not fix you. Nor a pamphlet about how much your mammy loves you. People are checking out early because of the state this country is in and they just do not see a way out. For many there actually isnt a way out. The corruption, hypocracy, red tape and BS that infests Ireland like a cancer is why these people are dying but people are too apathetic to march on the government and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

You are blaming the country and the government, really ? hardly the reason so many young people are taking their own lives.

There is help here for people, how does it compare to other countries?
It's easy to point the blame at everyone but the person who makes the choice.

golden lane

Andy!! wrote: »

WOW WHY DIDNT WE THINK OF THAT!! A NICE HOBNOB AND A CUP OF TEA PERHAPS???

Unbelievable.

well, that would be a start........maybe a jaffa cake as well.

TheTwiz

^^^ That's if I can afford one

smurgen

golden lane wrote: »

well, that would be a start........maybe a jaffa cake as well.

is there any point to your posts? Having suffered with depression and having beaten it, i know how hard it is non sufferers to relate to it. I even find it hard to remember how it felt myself sometimes. Trying to explain it to someone who hasn't suffered it is difficult, its like trying to descibe colours to someone who has been blind their whole life. Idiotic comments like yours makes the task even harder.

humanji

Golden Lane, stop posting in this thread.

listermint

Well in a round about way isnt golden lane suggesting taking one day at a time, or one moment at a time and working from there ?.....

Andy!!

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

You are blaming the country and the government, really ? hardly the reason so many young people are taking their own lives.

There is help here for people, how does it compare to other countries?
It's easy to point the blame at everyone but the person who makes the choice.

You havent got a clue what youre talking about. Honestly. You can stop posting in this thread n all.